Yes, it's good that it's 90% temporary and the 2-4 weeks is perfect.
Yes, though it could last more.
I'm on the fence about the issue.
No, it should last a lot more if it's temporary.
No, most content should be permanent, only special events should be temporary.
How one feels about this or that aspect of gameplay is up to them. That is personal. That is opinion.
Sure. If ascended gear will be used outside of a singular game mode. Such as in mundane or structured PVE that forms the drive and play systems of the core gameplay- events, PS, class skills, etc. AN would have succeed in adding a limited stage of the game that is set just prior to completion.Hmm, endgame sounds like a very fluid concept. So when GW2 releases Ascended armor and weapons this year (according to your definition) it will suddenly have endgame again?
There are actually quite a lot of thoughtful papers written on the distinction of the middle and endgame. Though most intellectual exercises of such agree that the endgame is defined by lack of moves/options/pieces just prior to completion of the game. Or goal, when the term is used in the context of other play systems outside of Chess specifically. [Don't confuse this aspect with Endgame Theory. Which though related is not necessarily the same.]
Ascended gear is not an actual progression system in GW2 outside of a limited game mode, however. Where it is only a gating function transposed to gear. There are no core play systems in GW2 that drive ascended gear or the mechanics agony.
*Do keep in mind, games can have an endgame sans progression system. So it's not as though adding ascended gear to open world or dungeon PVE is the only possible manner of adding an "endgame" to GW2. Which I suspect is a parallel you might be drawing from other linear, closed system MMORPGs such as Everquest or World of Warcraft. Where they do have a kind of "forever" mode of endgame- though this is usually arbitrarily set in the case of 1st & 2nd wave MMOs.
Last edited by Fencers; 2013-08-18 at 03:41 PM.
1. Inconveniences/Quality of Life issues that are remedied by the cash shop. The game is filled with them. Guess why there is so much inventory clutter? So that people buy that additional bag slot. Guess why your bank is shared between characters and you can't mail items to yourself without a proxy? So people buy additional bank slots. Guess why Transmutation Stones (the backbone of one of the game's cornerstones, cosmetic sidegrades) can only be acquired through very tedious and limited tasks such as map completion? So people buy them on the cash shop instead. Guess why you only have 5 character slots when there are 8 classes and you have to do the tutorial before you can go to S/TPvP? So people buy additional character slots. Guess why you have to lug around gathering tools that further clutter up your inventory? So people buy the unlimited charges gathering tools or additional bag slots.
2. Gold can be exchanged for gems and vice versa. This is the reason for the abundance of gold sinks in GW2. Without them people would spend less real cash on gems or you'd get inflation. Guess why Waypoints cost silver? Gold sink (and convenience issue, as you often have the choice between spending silver or enduring more loading screens, or walking). Guess why the Trading Post is global, actually a web page and has a built-in undercut feature? So that the average player cannot make much money from common items (as they trend toward vendor price, and in the case of salvaged stuff usually beneath the return you'd get from vendoring the unsalvaged item). Guess why there are diminishing returns on farming? Guess why the static crafting costs (vendor mats) make up such a big part of your crafting expenses? Guess why... I hope you're getting the point by now.
"Ascended armor and weapons will become available from rare drops and from crafting." - http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Upco...s_and_features
Last edited by Feranor; 2013-08-18 at 03:46 PM.
Some of which is indeed, subjective QoL issues from GW1 to present. Others are absolute shortcomings- like filtering trading post results or body sliding.
You can't actually progress through those achievements or ranks though. They are mostly cosmetic or inconsequential to the core gameplay. As is the living story- a narrative that unlike the PS, has no express or direct drive throughout the games as the PS. Which is impressed from level 1, by default.With the Achievement tiers, Glory Rank and WvW Rank the players very much are in a state of "perpetual 'almost done'". Especially in the context of Living World because there's a time limit.
Which they have never done in any of the five Guild Wars games. Thus far. I said specifically, thus far above.Only until AN decides to introduce the next tier of gear, exactly as in other MMOs.
I addressed the concept of newly added ascended gear in reply to another poster.
"Endgame" for example, is not a fixed definition, and is discussed in generalities for that reason. Because others share your opinion of what "Endgame" means does not mean it's the only one, nor the right one, and it can only be defined in specific form within the context of a specific discussion. But, you don't discuss things in that fashion, which usually leads to multipage diversions from the topic as people discuss things in a general sense while you tell them they're wrong because of your own narrow definition.
As somebody who has never played GW2, I find it intriguing that people cry about WoW's content coming out too slowly, and people cry about GW2's content coming out too quickly.
Just an interesting observation.
I mean, at least WoW just says "screw it, let the add-on guys do it" to an extent. In some of these discussions you can only say X is okay simply because other games are so much WORSE.
Bag space will never be enough though, I'd think. Providing a cash method for increasing it doesn't seem like creating an inconvenience just to cure it via money. At least you can deposit collectibles to save space.
Character slots, same thing, it's an entirely arbritrary distinction of how may is "right". There are five slots for five races, so that syncs in the ability to give you the five stories. But there are also 3 versions of each story, and 8 classes... and some folks like myself will never have enough slots.
I don't know that the personal story has any more bearing than the achievement system, really. It is a measurable system of finishing "something", sure, but it doesn't matter in your ability to complete anything ELSE in the game, as it were.You can't actually progress through those achievements or ranks though. They are mostly cosmetic or inconsequential to the core gameplay. As is the living story- a narrative that unlike the PS, has no express or direct drive throughout the games as the PS. Which is impressed from level 1, by default.
My mention of Ascended was not in the sense of "what may come", but in regards to what is currently in the system. If full exotics is a measure of "doneness", then the ascended backpacks/trinkets would fit into that concept.I addressed the concept of newly added ascended gear in reply to another poster.
So according to Fencers, when the game launched it had no endgame since there was max gear that could be obtained.
Then in November when Ascended rings and back items were introduced (which could only be obtained in Fractals and which was needed to progress in Fractals) the game suddenly got endgame again.
In January when Ascended amulets were introduced the game magically got endgame again.
In February when Ascended accessories were introduced (which could only be obtained through Guild Commendations from Guild Missions) the game superfragicalistically got endgame again!
Now with Ascended armor and weapons on their way, I guess we get even more endgame!
But Fencers doesn't want to count gear now. She has some other kind of mystery progression in mind. How about new abilities to learn? Those are coming this year as well.
And I'm pretty darn sure no one has progressed their World Ability Points to unlock all the skills in WvW.
I'll admit SHE's a little scary, but that skirt of yours is adorable.
It depends on the content itself whether it can still be completed at that point of course.
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Last edited by mistahwilshire; 2013-08-18 at 04:16 PM.
Right this moment in the Queen's Pavilion you need a massive group to go into the pits. You might sneak down and pick a few mobs off from the outer edges but you certainly can't go in and solo that (nevermind good luck in finding an empty pavilion, they are all on overflow lol).
Last edited by Karizee; 2013-08-18 at 04:30 PM.
I'll admit SHE's a little scary, but that skirt of yours is adorable.
From the perspective of an Everquest/WoW/FFXI player, the majority of this game is leveling which is almost entirely a solo activity. Even the group events and such are almost all extremely easy to solo.
Dungeons and Fractals were fun and yes they surely required groups, however after you do them once there's really no reason to ever do them again because there's hardly any point to gear in this game.
WvW is great, sure...If you like PvP.
When a game is created the rules of interaction and play have to be set. That is all gameplay is- a system of rules by which one plays/interacts with to achieve the goal(s) of the game.
Once again, how you feel about gameplay, That is the opinion part. The process of swinging a sword or firing laser pistol in Mutants of the Alpha Zone, is an absolute fact. That is gameplay. Because you can't play a video game any other way. There has to be rules that dictate play/interaction.
I did not say endgame had a fixed definition. In fact, I just said there was debate on what constitutes an endgame in various play systems. Though the commonality among most endgame scenarios is the stage of play before the game is complete. Completion being the goals of the game are achieved by the rules of gameplay."Endgame" for example, is not a fixed definition, and is discussed in generalities for that reason. Because others share your opinion of what "Endgame" means does not mean it's the only one, nor the right one, and it can only be defined in specific form within the context of a specific discussion. But, you don't discuss things in that fashion, which usually leads to multipage diversions from the topic as people discuss things in a general sense while you tell them they're wrong because of your own narrow definition.
Last edited by Fencers; 2013-08-18 at 05:22 PM.
Know-it-all's are extremely annoying. I guess Fencers didn't get that memo.
Video games are about gameplay. You can't make them otherwise or they cease being video games. Which is fine- but I am talking about a video game here.
GW2 did not gain endgame when fractals were introduced. Fractals are a singular game mode apart from the core gameplay.Then in November when Ascended rings and back items were introduced (which could only be obtained in Fractals and which was needed to progress in Fractals) the game suddenly got endgame again.
As far as I know agony only exists in a box, so to speak. Where it has no greater core gameplay drive than keg brawl or somesuch.
As above.In January when Ascended amulets were introduced the game magically got endgame again.
As above.In February when Ascended accessories were introduced (which could only be obtained through Guild Commendations from Guild Missions) the game superfragicalistically got endgame again!
As above.Now with Ascended armor and weapons on their way, I guess we get even more endgame!
One would count everything that is core to the gameplay of GW2. By default, in GW2 that is; the progression of one's character from level 1 to 80, the acquisition of gear to it's maximum level and the completion of the main narrative of the game (personal story).But Fencers doesn't want to count gear now. She has some other kind of mystery progression in mind. How about new abilities to learn? Those are coming this year as well.
The above are the only things driven by the gameplay of GW2 to completion sans minigames- by turns finite [jumping puzzles] or never ending [keg brawl].
Keep in mind an endgame implies an end of game, naturally. As it is the stage just before completion defined by the narrowing of play/pieces/options. That which has no definitive end or completion by rules is never at end of game. Though they can end locally [game over]; like a match of Checkers, sandbox Minecraft or Keg Brawl.
These are also endemic to a singular mode. One that is not even in line with the other PVP modes of the game.And I'm pretty darn sure no one has progressed their World Ability Points to unlock all the skills in WvW.
Where as gameplay such as movement, weapon skills, leveling hierarchy, UI interfaces, ability points, narrative interaction and so forth are the basis of all modes of play. That is the core gameplay of GW2. A hard rule as well.
Now we could say, that one is in a state of WVW or Fractal endgame (to an extent). That would be fair within those singular modes, not in Guild Wars 2 as a video game. Which is as accurate a description of GW2's design as saying one is in a state of Jumping Puzzle endgame so long as they have not completed all JPs.
This stuff is not mysterious or complicated. One simply looks at the core functions of the gameplay, what activities are driven by those functions to completion and the play systems that facilitate the end or reset [often the case in linear mmos] of core gameplay. All of this stuff in known and practiced in many game and play systems from Chess to cards to video games.
For example, if we look at a very simple linear MMO such as SWTOR-
The gameplay is based around the -/+ matchup of various character stats. One levels through quests and a primary campaign to a arbitrary maximum level. Increasing your maximum level aligns with the goal of increasing stats in your favor.
At the point of maximum level one enters into a series actives designed to further statistical gains. Narrowing to only a few activities before a player achieves the ultimate goal facilitated by gameplay; maximum statistical gains.
The point in which the gameplay, interaction within the rules, narrows is the Endgame. The part in which one completes the game goal is the end of game.
One can still play the SWTOR at the end of game.
There are other examples of an endgame such as in Morrowind, Fallout or Magic the Gathering. Just as an example of endgame in other genres besides MMOs. Which again, is pretty common!
Last edited by Fencers; 2013-08-18 at 05:25 PM. Reason: I meant to say narrative interaction. Which could also mean like plot too. Such as Doom or similiar games w/o much narrative.
Ah Fencers, you keep moving this endgame goal around so much I can't keep track of it now! What I'm getting from all your wordiness is that you think since there is no ilvl required to unlock content there is no endgame?
She raced through to level 80 and pretty much stopped playing. Said things like completing 1 path in the dungeon counted as completing the dungeon, didn't do the new dungeons, hasn't been participating in the updates, etc. I think she thinks if she keeps up with the "no endgame" mantra that people will start believing it
I'll admit SHE's a little scary, but that skirt of yours is adorable.
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You also say GW2 did not gain end-game when Fractals were introduced. I guess that means other MMOs don't gain end-game when Raids are introduced then huh? But yet, according to you, they do gain new ways of "end-game". But no, we can't apply that EXACT SAME THING in GW2. That just doesn't make sense (according to you). Your arguments are so contradictory, it's laughable.
The example you gave of SWTOR applies to GW2 as well. Ascended gear is a +stat gear over exotic gear. You obtain it to complete harder content, as you do in SWTOR. You start to limit your overall play to a smaller and smaller area of activity (aka raids, aka fractals)You're proving yourself wrong with your own example. But I'm sure you'll come up with some random, off the wall, "this is fact in the video game world" nonsense to try and disprove this as well.
Last edited by Zephyr Storm; 2013-08-18 at 06:10 PM.
An endgame is the point of the (a) game before the end of game in which there are limited options of play. After word, by the play rules, the game is at an end/achieved/completed/etc. The final stages before end, thus endgame.
A concept that is consistent regardless of game actually. Even game type- as in there is an endgame in Chess, playing cards, Go!, etc.
Sorry if you are not grasping a concept defined, understood and used since the late 1800s.
This is nonsense and borderline an ad hominem. Which are not truly allowed on the forums.She raced through to level 80 and pretty much stopped playing. Said things like completing 1 path in the dungeon counted as completing the dungeon, didn't do the new dungeons, hasn't been participating in the updates, etc. I think she thinks if she keeps up with the "no endgame" mantra that people will start believing it
I do play GW2 regularly. Did rush to 80 on Ranger, though have multiple 80s. Never made such claims about dungeons and have done new dungeons. I do all the LS content that my schedule allows as well. Which I have enjoyed, again, for the record.
Apologies if I do not fawn over games as expected or honor common video game player notions w/r/t the medium.
I do not engage in fanaticism. The practice is shameful even when well intentioned.
Endgame doesn't apply only to singular game modes. I was pointing out modes such as fractals and WvW as singular modes apart from the core gameplay of GW2. I.E., these are not the final stages of play within the gameplay of GW2.You keep talking about how "end-game" only applies to certain singular modes (aka Fractals, WvW, etc) and how that can't be compared to other MMOs. Well, what the hell are Raids then in other MMOs? They are a singular mode of a game in which you need to get the newest tier of gear ONLY to complete said mode. The rest of the game can still be done without that gear. How is that any different from the way Fractals work for example? It's not any different. And yet, you keep trying to make it sound like it is different.
And, yes. Many theme park MMOs have singular modes as their endgame. Raids are one type of endgame.
Of which [typically] are the final stages of play, as set by the gameplay [i.e. rules], to completing the goals of the game. Such as in the previously mentioned SWTOR, where the core gameplay [stats+] funnel to the point of limited play options [raiding] to that goal. Creating an endgame stage.
The gameplay goal of SWTOR is to get better gear/stats/statistically stronger. That core gameplay drive is relevant to the whole game and all game modes.
However, Fractals can be done anytime for the most part. There is no gameplay drive to complete them- they are not consistent across the game/game modes either. Hence a singular game mode that has no end of game. That is to say, ascended gears are not relevant to the gameplay of WvW, SPVP, non-fractal dungeons or just general world PVE. Fractals are their own thing within GW2- just like keg brawl or building a virtual house.
Sometimes MMOs don't gain an endgame when raids are added! Such as in Rift- where not all new raids [instanced and open world] were a reset / endgame stage.You also say GW2 did not gain end-game when Fractals were introduced. I guess that means other MMOs don't gain end-game when Raids are introduced then huh? But yet, according to you, they do gain new ways of "end-game". But no, we can't apply that EXACT SAME THING in GW2. That just doesn't make sense (according to you). Your arguments are so contradictory, it's laughable.
Now if fractals were a device by which the core gameplay narrowed to the completion of fractals [limited pieces on the board, completion of game goal]- then yes, GW2 would have an endgame in Fractals. That is not the case.
There is nothing contradictory in this- endgame is the stage where limited pieces are in play before you end the game by the rule set/goals of the game.
Again, a well used concept for many years in many play systems from playing cards to video games.
Last edited by Fencers; 2013-08-18 at 08:48 PM.