View Poll Results: Do you like having content only be there for 2-4 weeks?

Voters
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  • Yes, it's good that it's 90% temporary and the 2-4 weeks is perfect.

    35 15.56%
  • Yes, though it could last more.

    29 12.89%
  • I'm on the fence about the issue.

    19 8.44%
  • No, it should last a lot more if it's temporary.

    17 7.56%
  • No, most content should be permanent, only special events should be temporary.

    125 55.56%
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  1. #101
    Why are you all even arguing about what endgame is, isn't that a little off topic here?

  2. #102
    Titan Kelimbror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zodiark Son View Post
    Why are you all even arguing about what endgame is, isn't that a little off topic here?
    It's somewhat relevant as people are debating whether content that you do at the end of the leveling should be made permanent in some capacity. A lot of people who feel this way probably think GW2 has no 'endgame' and would like a more traditional one. That doesn't necessarily mean gear grind for stat increases, but it does mean a list of accomplishments they can check off in an understandable time period.

    For many people, GW2's current end game is fine as it is. I am one of them.
    BAD WOLF

  3. #103
    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    And again, what is this contra to?

    Are you suggesting that players [for example] harvesting mine nodes in Rift at level 60 are participating in the "endgame" by the popular & vulgar usage of the term?

    Would that be honest application of the term as you want to use it in this discussion? If so, then sure, players collecting herbs and participating in Keg Brawl are doing endgame activities just as well. If not, what would you set as the parameters of Rift's endgame as an example?

    Otherwise, endgame is exactly as described; the final stages of a game [before completion] when limited pieces or options are in play. A term that is applied & practiced across many game forms consistently.

    A game ends.

    What you do in those final steps before then when only a few moves are left is classically endgame.

    That is all an endgame is.
    You still want to argue definitions rather than discuss the content in the definition used by most.
    Sure, farming is part of the endgame for some, as is keg brawl. Is that content designed solely for endgame? Not automatically, but it is still a part of it.

    There are no "limited pieces or options" in play, in WoW or Rift or any of it, during endgame play you can return to any earlier part. Your definition was that you're engaged in gathering the final pieces to complete your set as endgame, and given that definition, GW2's endgame would be "buying exotics on the TP".

    No one called anything stupid. Vulgar was used in proper context.
    You called it not smart. What kind of semantic workaround is it to somehow think that's better than calling it stupid?
    And for vulgar, which of these definitions do you consider proper context and not DIRECTLY INSULTING to the person you're responding to?
    Lacking sophistication or good taste; unrefined: "the vulgar trappings of wealth".
    Making explicit and offensive reference to sex or bodily functions; coarse and rude: "a vulgar joke".

    Imaginary slights are your own doing.
    If you cannot see how your behavior is taken by those around you, then it's your own doing. You are responsible for the posts you make.

  4. #104
    For me personally I love how the new content cycles out the previous and isn't all permanent. The term 'Living Story' fits perfectly with the setup Anet is doing with their updates. It gives a fresher feel to the world than in other games where content gets released and is never updated as the rest of that world evolves. To me that really breaks immersion and the story gets very muddled and confusing.

    I can understand people who don't have the time to explore and experience each update and want to see content be permanent. I would like to see them add personal 1 player dungeons sort of thing again so people can see all the core story content if they missed it. That way you don't see the new major characters, or story lines, wondering what the heck is going on.

    With people arguing 'end game' content, has anyone else noticed that it's only on the forums you see people complaining about this, or is it just me? In all my time in game, I have yet to see a single person in guild chat or zone chats complaining they have nothing to do. There is always something to do, and it feels more to me that the players decide what their 'end game' is rather than the usual setup of leading us around by the nose at all times.

  5. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by Zodiark Son View Post
    Why are you all even arguing about what endgame is, isn't that a little off topic here?
    The endgame discussion came up because the topic was about stuff to do during what most of us consider to be endgame. Fencers wants to argue and berate based on the definition of the word endgame, and it has derailed the thread as some of us have engaged her in the matter. I have stepped out of it for a bit from time to time, but when a mod is calling stuff not smart and vulgar, it just provokes a response.


    Though, I did actually give my opinion on the thread topic early on, so I'm not a completely horrible person.

  6. #106
    lets see what permanent content we got this year:
    -costume brawl (sort of lackluster but whatever)
    -fotm (dungeon)
    -southsuncove (new zone)
    -temple of the silent storm (spvp map)
    -guild missions (jps, bounties etc)
    -spirit watch (spvp map)
    -world experience (wvwvw progression system)
    -leaderbords
    -custom pvp arenas/spectator mode
    -crab toss (minigame)
    -new meta-event karka qeeun
    -moa racing (gambling minigame)
    -skyhammer (spvp map)
    -sanctum sprint (minigame)
    -archievement rewards
    -belchers buff (minigame)
    -southsun arrival (minigame)
    -wallet
    -ascended gear
    -bunch of new jumping puzzles, events and skins
    -and some quality of life changes (culling removal/daily overhaul etc)

    reacurring content:
    -halloween (supose new story but same content)
    -wintersday (same i supose)
    -super adventure box (same but with new levels)
    -dragon bash (this is an assumption but i supose its coming back)
    -crown pavillion/qeeuns gauntlet (i thought a dev said its coming back, but im not sure..)

    first and foremost i wanna say we had BUNCH of new content! like thats in my opinion allot in 1 year and that for a b2p game!
    i also think there is actualy allot of permanent content just look at the list. the best things are in my opinion fotm and guild missions.
    i think they are doing to many mini-games..

    also people forgot that allot of the content is reacurring so its not wasted!
    -

  7. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by Gadgette View Post
    I can understand people who don't have the time to explore and experience each update and want to see content be permanent. I would like to see them add personal 1 player dungeons sort of thing again so people can see all the core story content if they missed it. That way you don't see the new major characters, or story lines, wondering what the heck is going on.
    That's what I'd like, either flashback instances or even a simple log to read that explained things for those that missed stuff. Other than that, the main problem IMO is the crystal node, a one time acquisition for a long term "benefit" with no new means to acquire. (As opposed to achievements/ cosmetic items which you can't get but are not directly in game material.)

    With people arguing 'end game' content, has anyone else noticed that it's only on the forums you see people complaining about this, or is it just me? In all my time in game, I have yet to see a single person in guild chat or zone chats complaining they have nothing to do. There is always something to do, and it feels more to me that the players decide what their 'end game' is rather than the usual setup of leading us around by the nose at all times.
    There's still new players appearing, maybe once every day or two I see someone ask in Map what characters do in endgame. Many answers of things to do at max level.

  8. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by Vespian View Post
    End-game is personal, whether you believe it or not.
    No, that is false. The concept is defined formally.

    End-game is defined by what the developers see as end-game
    Not sure who is arguing against this? Seems unrelated to anything.

    which is often not temporary events.
    A developer could make it so within the parameters of an endgame.

    And definitely not in the minds of the players.
    And this backs up what exactly?

    As above; does one mean to put forth the argument the vast majority of players consider an endgame in an MMO to be whatever you do at max level? Which would be anything from keg brawl to collecting flowers. That such a premise is the common understanding and implementation of an endgame in the MMO genre?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zephyr Storm View Post
    And once again, the term endgame, for MOST MMO players, simply means what they do at max level.
    As above; does one mean to put forth the argument the vast majority of players consider an endgame in an MMO to be whatever you do at max level? Which would be anything from keg brawl to collecting flowers. That such a premise is the common understanding and implementation of an endgame in the MMO genre?

    On the one hand you are saying that endgame is "whatever you do at max level" and that this is the majority view. And that POV is the dominant one among MMOs players w/r/t content.

    But do we have any context in which that POV is used in the genre for content of whatever stripe?

    Is it common that conversation of the Rift, Age of Conan or Secret World endgame is described, practiced and defined by crafting belt buckles, farming rhinos in the open world and running dailies respectively?

    I am fine with the common usage of the term being "whatever you do at max level". However, that isn't any common usage I have seen in the MMO genre. Common conversation about MMO endgames confines with the parameters of the classical endgame.

    Also the initiating conversation about an endgame as permanent content addition is not inline with the view of "things to do at max level" if you go back and read it. Least they would have "lots of things to do" at max level that are both permanent and within the definition you wish to use as commonly understood- making the suggestion contradictory.

  9. #109
    Maybe I should have defined endgame then, since I brought it up, albeit as a side point.

    Endgame, in the context of an MMORPG, is essentially what you are leveling towards. There is content you cannot access (not at all or at least not effectively) because you are low level. Why do you level in DAoC? Because you want to do RvR. Why do you level in WoW? Because you want to raid. Now, GW2 is a really schizophrenic game. It doesn't know whether it wants to be a traditional MMORPG or a game that's all about sidegrades, so it mixes both without any rhyme or reason (outside of S/TPvP anyway). In some zones you get scaled up, but you still suck because you lack gear, traits and abilities. So while technically you can participate in some of the content designed around characters at the level cap (^= endgame content), you're going to suck at it. Then in other zones you don't get any boost at all. Same with items; on the one hand there's no item level spiral, on the other hand AN keeps introducing higher quality items so you still need to grind gear to be on equal footing and also makes it needlessly difficult to maintain multiple classes or even multiple specs of the same class because of inventory clutter and having the Karma/crafting/Token/etc. system designed around requiring you blow pretty much all of your accumulated resources on one particular set of items to acquire it.

    So I guess the question is: why do you level in GW2? WvW, Fractals, most Explorables and maybe some niche areas like soloing Champions. That's what I consider its endgame. The content AN is neglecting.

  10. #110
    You just sorta have to avoid discussions like this with Fencers. She has a lot of good ideas about design and whatnot, but when it comes to any sort of disagreement you'll get mired in a swamp of pedantry and technicalities and never escape.

  11. #111
    Titan Kelimbror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feranor View Post
    So I guess the question is: why do you level in GW2? WvW, Fractals, most Explorables and maybe some niche areas like soloing Champions. That's what I consider its endgame. The content AN is neglecting.
    Leveling in GW2 is an arbitrary byproduct of a last minute design adjustment. Functionally you don't 'level' as the entire game is about the experience originally. I admit it has been muddled lately with some things added only feasible at cap, but for the most part is remains the same.

    For temporary events you get scaled up, in the world you get scaled down. The main 'point' of leveling is so that you can freely travel to all areas and all content types the game has to offer. That's it, nothing more. While it looks a lot different than other MMOs, it's functionally the same. You reach the level cap in order to have all content available to you.
    BAD WOLF

  12. #112
    It would be nice if some of the past lore exposition in-game events could be seen again in times to come(a scrying into the past kind of feature, perhaps not rewarding achieves and the like, but letting you see the story so far as new characters and the like are introduced). Beyond that, I have to say I like the feel that the world changes and evolves for its immersion factor. For something where you're not paying a monthly fee for access, I feel it's a good way to do things. If this was like WoW and you were paying to have access every month, I could understand wanting all the content to be permanent.

  13. #113
    I agree, if content is on "one time, limited time" availability it cannot be 2 weeks window for it. There is just too much content rolling out too fast for people who go to work and cannot play every single day. I think only limited amount of content should be like this - avail for short period of time.
    I didnt have time to do gauntlets and I think I wont be able to sit through for it as it is most likely gone now?
    A good mix wont hurt, its both good and bad, but cant make current content "too special" either. I`m somewhere in between with this.

  14. #114
    I agree, if content is on "one time, limited time" availability it cannot be 2 weeks window for it. There is just too much content rolling out too fast for people who go to work and cannot play every single day. I think only limited amount of content should be like this - avail for short period of time.
    I didnt have time to do gauntlets and I think I wont be able to sit through for it as it is most likely gone now?
    There has to be a balance between "Releasing new content so people stay interested" and "Keeping the old content out long enough for everyone to do it". Yes, there will be people that miss out on this content or that content because they were just too busy for two weeks straight, but they can't base their rollout schedule around that.

    (Gauntlet should still be around after today though, I think?)

  15. #115
    Haven't participated in the living story stuff yet, but 2 weeks does seem like a brutally fast turnaround time. Either way, having just got back into the game and having not done any living world yet, I'm on the fence.

    Hate to be a downer, kinda, but I'd rather some of the resources go towards some kind of raiding solution. Say, 4 week turnaround time on living world and get some raids going. Fair deal.

    From a gamer psychology standpoint, in MMO terms I would speculate that two weeks is too short a window to keep a player's attention over the long term a window. If one has to start over every two weeks, eventually they will lose interest in starting over. GW2 has got rid of the gear treadmill and introduced the Living Story treadmill, and turned the speed up to 9,001.
    Last edited by hablix; 2013-08-20 at 11:04 PM.

  16. #116
    Hate to be a downer, kinda, but I'd rather some of the resources go towards some kind of raiding solution. Say, 4 week turnaround time on living world and get some raids going. Fair deal.
    Oh god, I hope you brought your flame-proof suit. =O

  17. #117
    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    Oh god, I hope you brought your flame-proof suit. =O
    Didn't know it was controversial. I thought I read in an interview that they were working on this.

  18. #118
    If content wasn't temporary they wouldn't be able to hype up the temporary event items. It makes them feel more "exclusive" or "unique".

    I agree I wish there was permanent content though. It's hard to convince people to play GW2 again when there's only 1 new thing happening at any given time (you can't give them a huge list of content, and don't get technical with your huge list of shit most people aren't interested in, you know who you are ).

  19. #119
    Haven't participated in the living story stuff yet, but 2 weeks does seem like a brutally fast turnaround time. Either way, having just got back into the game and having not done any living world yet, I'm on the fence.
    The content usually stays for 1 month.

  20. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maconi View Post
    I agree I wish there was permanent content though. It's hard to convince people to play GW2 again when there's only 1 new thing happening at any given time (you can't give them a huge list of content, and don't get technical with your huge list of shit most people aren't interested in, you know who you are ).
    Umm...why do you need to give people a huge list of content if they aren't going to be interested in it? GW2 is very clearly a mostly treadmill-less, non raiding game.

    So all of those things you want people to not mention are exactly what you are supposed to do in the game. If they want reputation, dailies, and raiding..well...they aren't going to like GW2 any way you swing it. Premanent cosmetic/optional content isn't going to magically change the situation.

    If anything you should be savvy enoughy to spin how the world is constantly changing and being updated, that if they don't get in and start playing now they are going to miss out on so much awesome stuff. Permanent content just makes it less of an imperative to play tbh. Much easier to say meh, I'll try it later because it will always be there.
    BAD WOLF

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