View Poll Results: Do you like having content only be there for 2-4 weeks?

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  • Yes, it's good that it's 90% temporary and the 2-4 weeks is perfect.

    35 15.56%
  • Yes, though it could last more.

    29 12.89%
  • I'm on the fence about the issue.

    19 8.44%
  • No, it should last a lot more if it's temporary.

    17 7.56%
  • No, most content should be permanent, only special events should be temporary.

    125 55.56%
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  1. #121
    Quote Originally Posted by Kittyvicious View Post
    Umm...why do you need to give people a huge list of content if they aren't going to be interested in it? GW2 is very clearly a mostly treadmill-less, non raiding game.

    So all of those things you want people to not mention are exactly what you are supposed to do in the game. If they want reputation, dailies, and raiding..well...they aren't going to like GW2 any way you swing it. Premanent cosmetic/optional content isn't going to magically change the situation.

    If anything you should be savvy enoughy to spin how the world is constantly changing and being updated, that if they don't get in and start playing now they are going to miss out on so much awesome stuff. Permanent content just makes it less of an imperative to play tbh. Much easier to say meh, I'll try it later because it will always be there.
    +1. This. People asking for the events like the Queen's celebration to be permanent are just wrong. You know what one of my favorite times in WoW was - the zombie invasion. That's because it was a SPECIAL temporary event. Epic.

    The GW2 events are not quite that awesome (which is probably the most amazing event in MMO history) - but the temporary nature is what gets people playing again. I know I came back just to play that for a bit - and now I might buy some bank slots. That's a win for GW2.

    They have a different and very difficult business model. They can't do things like WoW does. It doesn't make sense for them. They want to get players playing NOW and get them to buy stuff in the gem store. If you go but then later come back - not a problem. Because its not a monthly fee there is no entry barrier. But they do need incentive to return.

    - - - Updated - - -

    And once again, the term endgame, for MOST MMO players, simply means what they do at max level. In GW2, that can be fractals, farming Orr, farming achievements, running Explorable Mode dungeons, do Keg Brawl, etc, etc. Just because YOU don't personally agree with this statement, DOES NOT make it untrue. And just because something doesn't fit a VERY NARROW definition in your mind does not make it any less true.
    I don't think she entirely disagrees with you. There is stuff you can do when you are 80. That's not endgame though. Endgame is the stuff you do right before you WIN the game. That's the endgame is chess.

    If you use the chess analogy - think about the series of moves you make to capture the King. That's the endgame. The dancing and celebrating you do after you beat Kasaparov - that's the stuff you do in GW2 after the endgame. But you have already 'won' the game because you have exotics in all the slots and have completed all the 'character improving' content.

    Her theory is both logical and correct IMHO. Think about other video games. If you beat Mass Effect 3 you can go back and play it again but with better gear and I think a harder level. They have a +game mode so to speak. That's not really the "endgame' though. The stuff you do to win the game vs. the Reapers in the final bit - that's the endgame. Just because you can continue to play on multiplayer mode or play the +game mode does not mean that's not the endgame.

    I don't see the issue here. GW2 purposely has limited endgame. It also has other activities for the hardcore player to kill some time with if they so desire - but so do regular games. Heck I think even Mario had some modes like that..

    Likely you are the type that doesn't believe MMOs have endgames. (I think they most assuredly DO).. For example in WOTLK - the endgame is the stuff you do to beat Arthas. You might do other stuff - like beat Arthas on Heroic. But in my mind the the player that beats Arthas has completed the endgame.
    Last edited by GuyClinch; 2013-08-21 at 04:35 PM.

  2. #122
    The Lightbringer Karizee's Avatar
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    2 weeks feels a bit pressured to me for content with a lot of achievements. 4 weeks feels better for those.

    They've been dialing this in as they go, if they keep up with 1 patch being 1 month long and the 2nd patch having permanent content in it along with rolling any dungeons back into Fractals (or any combination like that), I'll be pretty happy. Btw, did you catch Colin's comment about Invasions being permanent? Just imagining where they can go with this....

    https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/foru...o-Decide/first

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by GuyClinch View Post
    I don't think she entirely disagrees with you. There is stuff you can do when you are 80. That's not endgame though. Endgame is the stuff you do right before you WIN the game. That's the endgame is chess.

    If you use the chess analogy - think about the series of moves you make to capture the King. That's the endgame. The dancing and celebrating you do after you beat Kasaparov - that's the stuff you do in GW2 after the endgame. But you have already 'won' the game because you have exotics in all the slots and have completed all the 'character improving' content.

    Her theory is both logical and correct IMHO. Think about other video games. If you beat Mass Effect 3 you can go back and play it again but with better gear and I think a harder level. They have a +game mode so to speak. That's not really the "endgame' though. The stuff you do to win the game vs. the Reapers in the final bit - that's the endgame. Just because you can continue to play on multiplayer mode or play the +game mode does not mean that's not the endgame.

    I don't see the issue here. GW2 purposely has limited endgame. It also has other activities for the hardcore player to kill some time with if they so desire - but so do regular games. Heck I think even Mario had some modes like that..

    Likely you are the type that doesn't believe MMOs have endgames. (I think they most assuredly DO).. For example in WOTLK - the endgame is the stuff you do to beat Arthas. You might do other stuff - like beat Arthas on Heroic. But in my mind the the player that beats Arthas has completed the endgame.
    Interesting. Using this line of thinking to define endgame, do you think that completing LFR means endgame in WoW with normal and heroic just being +game mode?
    Who knows more of gods than I? Horse gods and fire gods, gods made of gold with gemstone eyes, gods carved of cedar wood, gods chiseled into mountains, gods of empty air... I know them all.
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  3. #123
    Btw, did you catch Colin's comment about Invasions being permanent? Just imagining where they can go with this....
    Yeah, I can imagine. It's called Rift.

  4. #124
    The Patient Ectothrix's Avatar
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    EDIT: just for the record my post is a general statement on temporary content. My son plays GW2 a lot.

    Regarding OP: My biggest complaint are things like mount drops. Take Naxx 2.0, those of us who are a little slow to finish content lost out on the chance for the plagued and black proto-drakes. Blizzard decided to yank them "just because" then after the fact realized it was a bad move that made people upset. So they decided not to remove mounts as meta anchovies.

    I was SO CLOSE to getting those. If not for one small screw up!!! Damn you Grimwar! (joke)

    Then take the mounts from ZG, I was never able to get them to drop, then boom gone because they redid it.

    Trial of the Crusader also had a mount, but it was a little different. That was a special drop for special people who beat the content, on-level with current gear. Removing that was more fair. But still, we see other mounts like LK and Mimi can still drop but at VERY low rates. I think that is more fair.

    The other one that pissed me off was AQ40 opening. While I don't disagree with them removing the mount because it was VERY special, what we didn't know at the time was that people could still get the mount within a time frame of opening the gate. My guild thought that because the alliance at the time did it, we were SOL and gave up, we were within 2-3 hours of completing it. Brud-Thunderhorn got the mount and title. I wish we knew...

    Now as for special events, I don't have a problem with them removing the content as its part of the story. However, I think it may be possible to allow people to complete events in a phased manner at-level. I wouldn't have a problem with that.

    Its kinda like Naxx 1.0 where so few people got to finish it due to difficulty, we only finished about half. I dont know how many people got the corrupted ashbringer, but it would have been cool. Yet its another example of blizzard removing content. What happened to the big quest line about that sword? How did Tirion get it in WOTLK?
    Last edited by Ectothrix; 2013-08-21 at 05:44 PM.

  5. #125
    The Lightbringer Karizee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    Yeah, I can imagine. It's called Rift.
    Never tried the game. Saw a review on it a long time ago, does it still have the take 2 steps in one direction and the sky darkens and oh shit all hellz gonna break loose, take 2 steps in the other direction and it's all sunshine blue skies thing?
    Who knows more of gods than I? Horse gods and fire gods, gods made of gold with gemstone eyes, gods carved of cedar wood, gods chiseled into mountains, gods of empty air... I know them all.
    ~Euron "Crow's Eye" Greyjoy

  6. #126
    Quote Originally Posted by Karizee View Post
    Never tried the game. Saw a review on it a long time ago, does it still have the take 2 steps in one direction and the sky darkens and oh shit all hellz gonna break loose, take 2 steps in the other direction and it's all sunshine blue skies thing?
    Yes, but it depends on graphics settings. XD

    The game's optimization is... lacking.

  7. #127
    Regarding OP: My biggest complaint are things like mount drops. Take Naxx 2.0, those of us who are a little slow to finish content lost out on the chance for the plagued and black proto-drakes. Blizzard decided to yank them "just because" then after the fact realized it was a bad move that made people upset. So they decided not to remove mounts as meta anchovies.

    I was SO CLOSE to getting those. If not for one small screw up!!! Damn you Grimwar! (joke)
    Your analogy is horribly flawed. In WoW they had to remove those rewards because new tiers/balance changes greatly impact previous tiers. If you weren't able to get the rewards in time (what was it 7months? oct 14 - apr 14 ) it simply means you weren't good enough. Doing it in a timely manner is part of the difficulty, driving a car around a track isn't hard doing it within a certain time is.

    Trial of the Crusader also had a mount, but it was a little different. That was a special drop for special people who beat the content, on-level with current gear. Removing that was more fair. But still, we see other mounts like LK and Mimi can still drop but at VERY low rates. I think that is more fair.
    It was the exact same thing as naxx you simply needed to do "undying" there is no specific gear requirement mentioned. Nobody can die and you can't reset.

    Then take the mounts from ZG, I was never able to get them to drop, then boom gone because they redid it.
    Is the only exception since it basically was an RNG drop that had nothing to do with skill, removing that is unfair since you can't "prepare" for the removal of it. Even if you farmed it bi-weekly you weren't guaranteed your loot. (molten jetpack, weaponskinns from BLC, ...)

  8. #128
    The Lightbringer Karizee's Avatar
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    Who knows more of gods than I? Horse gods and fire gods, gods made of gold with gemstone eyes, gods carved of cedar wood, gods chiseled into mountains, gods of empty air... I know them all.
    ~Euron "Crow's Eye" Greyjoy

  9. #129
    Quote Originally Posted by Karizee View Post
    Is there something your in PR manual that says when someone causally mentions another game in GW2 thread you need to deflect to a negative criticism about that game? This is so far off-topi of this thread.

  10. #130
    The Lightbringer Karizee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clymene View Post
    Is there something your in PR manual that says when someone causally mentions another game in GW2 thread you need to deflect to a negative criticism about that game? This is so far off-topi of this thread.
    I'm not knocking the game at all, don't take it like that! I've heard great things about the devs, that they are upfront guys and what they've done as far as getting content out at a much faster rate than other MMOs and all. I got nothing bad to say about them and I hope they do really well. BovD's comment just made me think of this review I saw because it was funny.
    Who knows more of gods than I? Horse gods and fire gods, gods made of gold with gemstone eyes, gods carved of cedar wood, gods chiseled into mountains, gods of empty air... I know them all.
    ~Euron "Crow's Eye" Greyjoy

  11. #131
    Yeah Rift invasions are very similar, but there tended to be a single raid that roamed. GW2's invasions actually complete faster if you split up into groups of 10. My fastest completion is 35 minutes.

    Also, the players would love a speedrun record for the game. It's already a big part of the PVE culture.

  12. #132
    Quote Originally Posted by GuyClinch View Post
    I don't think she entirely disagrees with you. There is stuff you can do when you are 80. That's not endgame though. Endgame is the stuff you do right before you WIN the game. That's the endgame is chess.
    The issue really is that an MMO is not chess. Once you hit max level, the game still goes. Thus, for most MMO players, "Endgame" has a meaning which is max level content. If someone says "what do you do at endgame", the response is to tell them what you do at max level, not to tell them they are wrong to use the word endgame.

    I don't see the issue here. GW2 purposely has limited endgame. It also has other activities for the hardcore player to kill some time with if they so desire - but so do regular games. Heck I think even Mario had some modes like that..

    Likely you are the type that doesn't believe MMOs have endgames. (I think they most assuredly DO).. For example in WOTLK - the endgame is the stuff you do to beat Arthas. You might do other stuff - like beat Arthas on Heroic. But in my mind the the player that beats Arthas has completed the endgame.
    Raids and heroic dungeons are WoW's endgame, along with various daily quest hubs.

  13. #133
    I havent played rift since release, but one thing i liked were invasions they were awesome, and there were some consequences if you didnt stop the zone wide invasions if I remember correctly. Love that gw2 is using rifts idea hopefuly they will include some nasty consequences if we fail the zone wide event.

  14. #134
    Quote Originally Posted by GuyClinch View Post
    You know what one of my favorite times in WoW was - the zombie invasion. That's because it was a SPECIAL temporary event. Epic.
    It was one of my favorites as well, but the thing is there was nothing associated with it that was temporary.* No achievements, no mounts, no minis, no titles. If you missed it you only missed the experience. That is what I wish they would do with GW2 temporary content.

    * There were armor sets that dropped, but few went after them because the stats on them were not as good as raid gear and transmogrification didn't exist at the time. I also think they may have been re-colorings of existing armor, but I don't remember.

  15. #135
    Yeah, recolorings of existing armor, though cheap epics. They had some useless stat on them, undead resistance or something odd like that.
    But, they also had the banner with the paladin, and some tabards and stuff, there was plenty of gear comparable to the minipets or potions or whatnot, actually.

    (though technically that was part of the Scourge invasion that occured alongside the plague outbreak)

  16. #136
    Quote Originally Posted by Svifnymr View Post
    Yeah, recolorings of existing armor, though cheap epics. They had some useless stat on them, undead resistance or something odd like that.
    Well, I was playing a feral druid the first time it happened in vanilla with the release of Naxx, so 75% of all armor stats at that time were useless to me. :P

    But, they also had the banner with the paladin, and some tabards and stuff, there was plenty of gear comparable to the minipets or potions or whatnot, actually.
    I don't remember any of that. O_o Then again, I'm obviously confusing the release of Naxx with the release of Wrath, they were both very similiar if not identical.

  17. #137
    Quote Originally Posted by Lane View Post
    I don't remember any of that. O_o Then again, I'm obviously confusing the release of Naxx with the release of Wrath, they were both very similiar if not identical.
    I wasn't around for Naxx release, but I recall the argent banner and argent tabard. The banner did a weak consecrate and the tabard summoned a paladin for 5 minutes, I think he'd fight for you (like Barov's Peasants) but not well. It was only amusing because at the end of 5 minutes instead of just fading out, he'd Bubble hearth.

    I don't want to over-WoW, but given that we're just now approaching 1 year with GW2, we don't know what changes will occur to some of the events. Halloween in WoW is the same each year, with pets and wands o'zappin and stuff. Sometimes they change some elements, but mostly similar. I imagine they may refine some of the Halloween stuff (possibly changing book-backpack acqusition) so maybe it'll give us an idea of what to expect in regards to some of these other events. At this point, who knows.

  18. #138
    I remember the bubble-hearthing paladin trinket now! I also recall I did miss out on the Argent Dawn tabard that you could click and it would do a firework effect. Maybe they did have some mementos, but not much of it was noteworthy enough to care and I say that as someone who was somewhat of a dedicated collector in WoW. A lot of that stuff just ended up gathering dust in my bank.

    Besides, in WoW we're talking about things that (with the exception of Naxx) only occurred once before expansions every two years or so. GW2 does this every two weeks and they usually try to tie in a lot of nifty things into the gem store and/or achievements to make sure that you don't want to miss it even if you don't care about the story content.

    I really hope I didn't permanently miss out on the Halloween recipes from last year. I didn't have the skill to learn them at the time and I forgot to buy them before the end of the event. Not getting the Spicy Pumpkin Cookie(?) especially really sucked.

  19. #139
    One of the main reasons my group of friends doesn't play anymore is because of the temporary content. I think it definitely negatively affects the game.
    "I realized it is the struggle itself that is the most important. We must strive to be more than we are. It does not matter that we will never reach our ultimate goal. The effort yields its own rewards." -Data

  20. #140
    There is some content that I am happy to be temp content and other content that is rather frustrating. Take the temp dungeons, that just makes absolutely no sense to me. A boat load of effort and gove before I could even play them. I know that they are coming back with fractals in the future but I do think that those sorts of things should be added permanently. Almost a way of leaving behind a legacy from the content. It should also be possible to complete all of the metas through other means in the future that are more permanent. A bit like what they did with the queens dailies. If you leave some content behind, you can make it part of a daily from time to time that will add towards a meta.

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