Page 1 of 3
1
2
3
LastLast
  1. #1

    Homogenization, is it the real culprit?

    Would I be incorrect in at least finding some valid points in assuming that the "dumbing down" of WoW has more to do with the stead subscription loss cycles than not?

    Now, I'm not talking about "difficulty" here when I speak of dumbing down. I'm actually talking about the core of the game. I understand and agree that the old Tree/talent system was clunky, annoying, obnoxious, and even bad at times. However, I also feel that it did provide a different feeling to the experience as well as a quick "red flag" warning to other players if your talents were all jacked up.

    For myself, I no longer feel much of a difference between the classes. I'm sure you or someone else might though. I've never been 100% invested in a single character and always considered my self an "altoholic" from the start. However, up until the end of Wrath, I felt a difference between tanking on my Warrior, my Dk, my Druid, or my Paladin. These days, the only difference I feel or see is that 3 out of the 5 tanking classes have a much less difficult time holding aggro in an ilvl disparaging group.

    While I do commend Blizzard for trying, risk or otherwise, to clean up and constantly evolve the game and not feign that they "got it right at the start", I can't help but feel that they've been riding that bus over a cliff.

    My favorite part of WoW used to be helping lowbies. Running dungeons for them was something that called back fond memories of Diablo days. However, in the pursuit of making everything "more accessible" they've also removed most of the connection between "Start" and "Finish" other than "Just get it the fuck done."

    I've heard many times that the game doesn't start till 90 (or whatever max level happens to be) and I used to argue against the mindset. These days, I sort of see the point. To me, the narrow differences between the classes at max level and repetitive content (rather than 'new' ) causes players to look in other directions. Meanwhile, the lack of engagement of the game or social connection, value, or worth, of a new players between 1 and max level, seems to prevent too many new people from joining too.

    This isn't me saying "WOW IS DYING" because it we all know that it is... it has been since launch, every game dies. I'm simply trying my best to put a fair finger on things where lack of enthusiasm really happens to be lacking.

    Anyone else feel this has some merit?

  2. #2
    I completely agree.

    Almost everything has been dumbed down. Many unique class abilities have been removed because they might have been "unfair" (I want Divine intervention back ASAP). Almost every class has been giving a "sprint" ability so no one feels left out. Buffs have been so simplified it's boring. Talents have been completely ruined, you no longer have to visit your trainer for anything except resetting specialisation.

    Many things no longer require a regent (You can make a campfire without wood etc.) No doors require keys.
    Seeing content requires no communication or effort (not even a key)

    All these things are immersion breakers and I think that's why WoW is losing subscribers. At least a part of why.

  3. #3
    The Insane Slowpoke is a Gamer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Hitbox & Youtube
    Posts
    19,739
    The issue here is as content got easier to see, while production times for endgame remains unchanged. Blizz needs to either turn up the difficulty or tune down the length between tiers.
    You don't create "justice" by destroying. That includes buildings, cars, or the careers of the people you want "justice" for.


  4. #4
    Another "weh game too easy for me"?

  5. #5
    I don't know.

    WoW has always been a game that loses a lot of subs. The difference in the past was that they were attracting new players faster than losing old ones. A lot of people on these forums are "Wrath Babies." You don't find many "MoP babies."

    Do you really think the game being too dumbed down at level 90 is something on their minds when they choose to sub or not? I don't. I think they see WoW as an old game with subscription fees. They see other games that are "free" and have fresher graphics and do more to draw you in at an early level. WoW's "free trial" 1-20 does little to attract new players. There's nothing interesting about it. Contrast that with a game like say, SWToR, where you are put into story mode from level 1. If you were a new player who knew nothing about any of the games, you'd be more likely to keep playing the one that engaged you right away.

    Simply put, WoW is old and not attractive to new players.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Abysal View Post
    I don't know.

    WoW has always been a game that loses a lot of subs. The difference in the past was that they were attracting new players faster than losing old ones. A lot of people on these forums are "Wrath Babies." You don't find many "MoP babies."

    Do you really think the game being too dumbed down at level 90 is something on their minds when they choose to sub or not? I don't. I think they see WoW as an old game with subscription fees. They see other games that are "free" and have fresher graphics and do more to draw you in at an early level. WoW's "free trial" 1-20 does little to attract new players. There's nothing interesting about it. Contrast that with a game like say, SWToR, where you are put into story mode from level 1. If you were a new player who knew nothing about any of the games, you'd be more likely to keep playing the one that engaged you right away.

    Simply put, WoW is old and not attractive to new players.
    I started in mid TBC, and there were certain things, spells, and other elements of the game that made me stay. Things that have now been removed for the sake of convenience.
    Dumbing down the game doesn't keep new players away, it just makes them leave very fast.

  7. #7
    They changed the need to generate threat with active mitigation. It's not become easier, its become more engaging for tanks.

    The rest of your post is just the usual drivel to be honest. It's not new, thought provoking or insightful in anyway.

  8. #8
    Immortal Quetzl's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Mass, US
    Posts
    7,042
    Homogenization, yes. People like variety. Less variety now. People like it less.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Deja Thoris View Post
    They changed the need to generate threat with active mitigation. It's not become easier, its become more engaging for tanks.

    The rest of your post is just the usual drivel to be honest. It's not new, thought provoking or insightful in anyway.
    So active Paladins stack haste to dodge... i mean parry... i mean... wait what do they do again?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Danielvonluchau View Post
    I started in mid TBC, and there were certain things, spells, and other elements of the game that made me stay. Things that have now been removed for the sake of convenience.
    Dumbing down the game doesn't keep new players away, it just makes them leave very fast.
    There does seem to be "less" in a way in the goal of making it more "appealing" to new players yet in the course of doing so they've also been drawing in less new players.

    I cannot believe how many "auras" no longer exist in the game. I have a guild member (who obsessively loves his dk) who started in Cata and I honestly think that Wrath DKs would blow his mind.

  10. #10
    dps/hps rotations for every single class is alot more complex now in vanilla.. manny classes in vanilla had only 1-2 buttons they used..

    not saying game have become harder, its still fucking easy, just that every aspect of it havent been nerfed.
    or mages whould still only use 1 ability in their dps rotation

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by hakujinbakasama View Post
    So active Paladins stack haste to dodge... i mean parry... i mean... wait what do they do again?

    - - - Updated - - -


    I'll bite.

    It's about keeping buff uptimes like shield of the righteous up to reduce damage taken / smooth damage intake. Combine this with smart sacred shield usage (high uptime - possibility to swop to offtank when tank swopping - refreshing when vengeance spikes) makes it a lot more engaging than avoidance stats.

    It's about as far away from homogenisation as one could wish to get.

    These threads are so stupid. It's always an OP highlighting one issue in a vacuum and thinking its the source of all evil. Gee, the game is 9 years old, a large part of the world in in recession and the original wow crowd now have a wife and 2.4 kids. Multiple factors like that could never be responsible for whatever real or perceived woes wow faces could they? Stop being so myopic.

  12. #12
    Maybe if the game didn't cost over $100 to get in to as a new player that might make it a bit easier.

    In an era where steam sales run amazing games for insanely low prices, who the hell is paying 100+ dollars to get in to a new game?

    Battle chest desperately needs an update.

  13. #13
    Mechagnome
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Monroe, OREGON
    Posts
    707
    I remember starting Wow back in Vanilla. I looked at the Hunter class and one thing that struck me was Group Run Speed. I was like "Neat, I can supply speed for the entire group!". Then checking out Druid and seen how it could DPS and Tank in one spec. "Cool, I can be dps'ing and if the main tank dies, BAM I can tank it and possibly prevent a wipe. O and LOOK battle Rez. HOLY CRAP RUN SPEED!!!! Only 2 classes have a CHANCCE of keeping up!!!" Then there was the Paladin self-heal-when-hitting. "I can help my healer out by "self-healing" a little bit"

    There's VERY little Uniqueness left in the classes. And THAT'S whats driving me away from the game. It's irritating as hell when EVERYONE has Speed. EVERYONE has a self heal.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by mistahwilshire View Post
    Maybe if the game didn't cost over $100 to get in to as a new player that might make it a bit easier.

    In an era where steam sales run amazing games for insanely low prices, who the hell is paying 100+ dollars to get in to a new game?

    Battle chest desperately needs an update.
    u wot m8

    it costs about £30 for all the expansions + 30 days of free time.

  15. #15
    The Lightbringer Flutterguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Derpifornia
    Posts
    3,177
    I still find the classes largely play differently. Every one requires some adjustment.

  16. #16
    I think some homogenization is necessary just for specs to be able to do their jobs efficiently and effectively, but even Ghostcrawler admitted in a recent interview that they've gone too far with it and need to address it.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Abysal View Post
    Simply put, WoW is old and not attractive to new players.
    ^ This guy gets it.

  18. #18
    The game has been dumbed down because the time and audience changed. The audience is dumber now.

  19. #19
    The Patient Slowbro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    The internet!
    Posts
    243
    Another one of these threads?
    Wow is old
    /thread
    Hey! Hey! I think i found a rare candy!
    Huh?
    Congratulations, your Slowpoke has evolved into Slowbro!

  20. #20
    The Lightbringer Bigbazz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Wales
    Posts
    3,673
    Classes definitely become more complex with each expansion, but they have also become more the same. Warriors used to generate rage from white attacks and damage taken to spend on special attacks, on next attack abilities (cleave/heroic strike) provided a unique interaction between rage gain and use giving the Warrior a unique playstyle. Warriors used to switch stances and weapons to adapt to different situations with different benefits and abilities.

    Now warriors use their special attacks to generate rage (hunter/rogue similar), melee auto attack is generic with on next attacks being removed, autoattack rage gain has been heavily normalised (completely changing the feel of how rage comes in) and stances work like those of the Death Knight. Look at weapon speeds where there was a great deal of variety and experimentation, especially so with rogues. All of that has been removed.

    So many cases of this throughout the game, it has simply been streamlined down to plain boring in areas of game mechanics and classes have become too similar with many unique aspects being taken out.
    I7 2600k @4.5ghz : 16GB DDR3 : GTX670 : Firestudio : Naga : G27

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •