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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by babo7000 View Post
    Why is the Alliance here? I understand Garrosh is a serious threat, and by the end of the fight will be unimaginably powerful. But, why shouldn't we just let the Horde go and kill themselves, then attack? Why do we HAVE to siege with them? Because all of a sudden, everything that ever happened under the Horde banner was because of Garrosh?
    As if it wasn't obvious enough that Garrosh became a global threat and has to be addressed as such.

    It's more like, the Alliance sees that there's too much turmoil inside the faction of the Horde that stands against Garrosh, they can't be trusted to be able to finish the job. You know, while the trolls and tauren might be ready for a fight, the proud blood elves have enough on their plate licking their wounds from the encounter with the Kirin Tor currently and Sylvanas is probably more kneen on turning dead Kor'kron into her personal army than liberating Ogrimmar. Would you trust them? Well I wouldn't. If you want the job done correctly then do it yourself, that's what the Alliance is there for.

    Besides, Garrosh tried crushing our prince, as much as we don't like the brat he's ours to deal with and no red-skinned pig-man goes for him unpunished.
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  2. #22
    Herald of the Titans Seriss's Avatar
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    Um... Why should I be angry with MoP only because I picked Alliance when I created my chars? Am I not allowed to just enjoy the story?

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Lynneiah View Post
    I've written fanfiction that's more or less 50/50 (45/55, to be honest). It really isn't that hard. It just involves not abandoning half of your plotlines.
    And now comes the big question of is your fanfiction any good?

    Your fanfiction could be a terrible story to be honest, and although it would be faction fair, it could not be gripping or interesting at all.

    This is a theoretical judgement of course, as I haven't read your fanfiction, it could be really good. It's all subjective though.

  4. #24
    Speaking as a 100% Horde player I can sympathize with the Alliance players' POV in terms of their leaders being boring sticks-in-the-mud with little to no character development, besides a little emo-goth rage from Jaina(first thing she'd done since WC3 besides sit in a tower and cry, and it took a damn nuke to get her to do that much)and some 'oh look I'm mister refined leader-guy instead of human Garrosh' Big-Chin action. I did like the twist of having Moira and the Dark Iron actually do something honorable and supportive for once, but I still don't believe they have the best interests of the Dwarves and the Alliance in mind. Anduin's developing some, but even that seems bland and uninspiring.

    It's the same old thing it always has been. Horde has many colorful and interesting characters, Alliance is a bunch of tapioca puddingheads.

  5. #25
    The Insane Slowpoke is a Gamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by McNeil View Post
    The Alliance get to raid the capital city of the Horde. I would've loved to raid Stormwind and kill Varian as the final boss...
    I bet you would....


    But would you love aiding a bunch of Alliance Rebels led by Jaina kill an Old God serving Varian and then leave without having any sort of indication you made progress after losing 1/4 of your faction's territory the previous expansion?

    That's the position the Alliance is in. It's not a fist pumping moment of invading Org and slaying Garrosh. It's helping Thrall save the world... again.
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  6. #26
    So I suppose I'm a bit beside myself in someone who plays the Alliance and Horde both but also realizes that in terms of potential story arcs, that Horde has more exciting and memorable loose ends and that the Alliance potential for something that has far-reaching consequences is rather... base.

  7. #27
    Can't believe threads like these...in Cata u whined Deathwing for attacking Stormwind and now for a raid doing worse to Orgrimmar, can u make up ur minds??...

  8. #28
    Wait a second...

    You are crying, because the Alliance got no "reason" to raid Orgrimmar? Come on. Do you realize, what Blizzard did to the Horde? They forced the Horde to raid their own capital, to slaughter their own soldiers, advisers, general, to kill their very own faction leader. Of they want, to remove Garrosh, it would have been quite easy. They could have letting him die at the end of an expension, he could have died like Magni or Cairne offscreen, or he could have died when fighting as a friendly NPC inside a raid, like many did since Classic. But no. They decided, that the players, including the Horde should kill him.
    They screwed the Horde over and over, force them to have reasons to kill its own people. The Alliance never needed a reason to invade Orgrimmar, since that was their purpose of the faction war anyway.

    Do you know, how stupid questing for the Horde feels? First we are send by Garrosh to destroy that Alliance force in Pandaria... Now we got the faction war on the other continent. During 5.0 the Horde players fought for Garrosh, like they did during Cata. But then came 5.1: First we see, how Garrosh trys, to assassinate Vol'jin. But he did not only try to kill him. He even took over the Echo isles, to surpress the trolls. With the aid of Thrall we take the Echo isles back from the Orcs, directly opposing Garrosh. After that we start to help Garrosh again, looking for his bell, and stealing it back from Darnassus, causing the Horde, especially the Blood Elves more problems, losing the alliance with the Kirn'tor. After we stole the bell we help the blood elves, opposing Garrosh again... only to be a chosen witness of Garroshs plan, to ring that bell, helping him again. Later we join first the Blood Elves, who plot against Garrosh secretly by looking for new weapons, they could use against him and join an open revolution against garrosh. We help Garrosh, oppose him, only to help him again, opposing him a second time, helping him the third time, and after that opposing him the third time.
    The Horde got more story during MOP... thats true. But all that story is only about being screwed over again and again, and in the end see your faction destroyed, and after 5.4, according to wrathion, Horde has, to lick Varians boots. The story is terrible from the Horde point of view!
    Last edited by josykay; 2013-08-17 at 10:37 PM.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by dokhidamo View Post
    I bet you would....


    But would you love aiding a bunch of Alliance Rebels led by Jaina kill an Old God serving Varian and then leave without having any sort of indication you made progress after losing 1/4 of your faction's territory the previous expansion?

    That's the position the Alliance is in. It's not a fist pumping moment of invading Org and slaying Garrosh. It's helping Thrall save the world... again.
    You forgot the biggest part, you also have to go spend weeks farming supplies for Jaina so that for all intents and purposes the Alliance rebels lose nothing by the end of the rebellion.

    Blizz has had issues with dropping plot lines before, forgetting their own lore and causing massive ret-cons. Just over the past four, five'ish years it's become insanely bad, not just in WoW, in SC and Diablo universes too. The story and questing departments need a dictator overseeing them to make sure stuff actually gets done, and nothing gets done half way and then is left on the sidelines because someone lost interest in doing their job.
    What are you willing to sacrifice?

  10. #30
    Please, constructive posts.

    Dont say we shouldnt be complaining because its just a game. I am fully aware it is, but it is game a lot of people play for the story. You dont rage during a book club meeting because the book is only fiction.

  11. #31
    Legendary! Granyala's Avatar
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    The only thin that bugs me a little is that Varian leads the Alliance.
    But given the fact that Humans contribute the largest part of the Alliances inhabitants and has the strongest military presence, it sort of makes sense.
    Still I'd like Varian to interact more with other races leaders, before making decisions.

    Yeah 5.3 was a little lame, I had hoped to be part of some sabotage and stuffs, but I guess 5.3 was too much an experiment for Blizzard.

    Overall, I'm happy how the story of MoP turned out. My fist pumping moment was that Varian found the on-switch for his brain and became a leader my Draenei can respect.

    It'll be very interesting to see what they do next expansion and whether the Horde has to feel any repercussions of these events at all.

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  12. #32
    Both sides are equally as terrible. I stopped caring for Alliance long ago, and Thrall's "saving the world" shit bored me to death in Cata. Not to mention the assassination of Garrosh's character... in a book.

    I'm happily playing other MMOs now, wishing Blizzard would just abolish factions.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by dokhidamo View Post
    I bet you would....


    But would you love aiding a bunch of Alliance Rebels led by Jaina kill an Old God serving Varian and then leave without having any sort of indication you made progress after losing 1/4 of your faction's territory the previous expansion?

    That's the position the Alliance is in. It's not a fist pumping moment of invading Org and slaying Garrosh. It's helping Thrall save the world... again.
    We haven't seen the ending yet. We don't know where the plotlines are going in the future. And Garrosh is NOT SERVING AN OLD GOD.
    "If you have to believe it on faith, you have no reason to believe it at all.” Aron Ra

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Florena View Post
    We haven't seen the ending yet. We don't know where the plotlines are going in the future. And Garrosh is NOT SERVING AN OLD GOD.
    No...HE IS AN OLD GOD!!!! O_o

  15. #35
    I am Murloc! Airwaves's Avatar
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    Um... The last time the alliance attacked org solo they got there ass handed to them. The alliance needs the rebels help as much as the rebels need the alliance. Without the rebels the alliance would get killed before they even landed like last time.
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  16. #36
    The Patient meloreandor's Avatar
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    Can we let this die please. Mists of Pandaria is already over.

  17. #37
    Or, you know, Alliance don't have any right, because they're acting like whiny, spoiled, entitled children? I have not seen ONE valid point made about how Horde has a better story, in any of the expansions. Boo hoo hoo. It does not. You Alliance players refute any counter argument that Horde makes just because you want to feel like the victim. Get over it. There is no Horde bias, and even if there were, it would be your own fault for whining so much about a non-existent preconceived notion that Blizz loves one half of their playerbase more.
    Last edited by Alliance Are Crybabies; 2013-08-17 at 10:56 PM.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Airwaves View Post
    Um... The last time the alliance attacked org solo they got there ass handed to them. The alliance needs the rebels help as much as the rebels need the alliance. Without the rebels the alliance would get killed before they even landed like last time.
    That's another thing. It saves alliance lives to fight alongside the rebels. Even though Vol'jin isn't able to take the harbor, he WAS able to divide garrosh's forces and make the landing somewhat easier. Having undead and blood elf ships at the harbor also splits up casualties from their defenses.
    "If you have to believe it on faith, you have no reason to believe it at all.” Aron Ra

  19. #39
    I swear Alliance players complain beyond belief. You had BC and WoTLK to claim all the glory and the horde in MoP has been under Garrosh. You can't claim that your side doesn't get any "glory" when the Horde has to sit here in civil war and you come in to save us. Horde had our only important moment during Cata. And in case you're forgetting, the Alliance started this whole thing until Blizzard decided that the once-abused Horde had to become evil because "monsters are bad and humans r good!"

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by babo7000 View Post
    Horde got the better side of the story, hands down. I've played both. Alliance gets some good moments, but for the most part talk to only Anduin, Jaina, Varian and a random dwarf. Horde get involved with every faction leader aside from Sylvanas and Gallywix (who?). The purge of Dalaran ended up being pointless, as in 5.2, the Sunreavers are shown to be an equally powerful faction compared to both the Kirin Tor and Silver Covenant. Also, Dalaran is never seen ingame, and we have to mention or hint as to whether or not it ever will.

    So the 'Fist Pumping Moment' of the expansion? We get the worse side of the story and two factions that are the same strength as the one that the Horde got.
    So you're suggesting that the Sunreavers are equal in size to the Kirin Tor even after a ton of them are still imprisoned? Holy shit, the Sunreavers must have been a majority in Dalaran then... Or they got rolled into the rest of the BElves because, you know, Lor'themar is there personally... and also: "Rommath, assemble the Blood Magi, and add the Sunreavers' strength to your own."

    Varian even flat out says: "At the very least, we now have the Kirin Tor on our side. Today will be remembered by all as a victory for the Alliance."

    Quote Originally Posted by babo7000 View Post
    2) 'High King': I was surely not the only one, who when Blizzard announced the trials, was thinking of something epic. Questing alongside Varian and Tyrande in Ashevale? Varian and Genn in Gilneas? Helping the Gnomes in Gnomer? There was so much possibilities.

    But, nope. Instead, we got two scenarios. One, we have both leaders just sit there and take credit for our work while they bicker. In the other, we have the Dark Iron leader, a leader who had every right to be distrusted, a leader who has in no point in the past shown loyalty to the Alliance, doing some work on the final boss. Our High King? In both scenarios, he stands back, talks, and takes credit.

    What did this end up doing? It made a lot of the Alliance players hate Varian. The exact opposite of what they were supposed to do. This is aside from the nonsense that is the story of these scenarios. Why did Tyrande come to Pandaria, appear only once, and leave? Why were the Bronzebeard and Wildhammer dwarves made out to be the bad guys, when they had every reason not to trust the Dark Iron?

    Now, all of a sudden Varian is the High King. He is nothing like Lothar. He didn't earn his spot, he didn't show the players or other races why he should lead. Instead, we are told that he is now the commander of the Alliance, and are expected to like it.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Can we have a rough timeframe on when we can expect the Trials of the High King questline to be implimented? Are we taking around patch 5.1 or something closer to the Siege of Orgrimmar patch?
    Varian Wrynn's first trial will happen in 5.1. But to set expectations, the development of Varian's character happens across the entire patch cycle and beyond - it doesn't all happen in one event or one scenario. His trials are many. (Source)
    So content exclusively for developing Varian and Alliance storylines isn't good enough... His characterization in Operation: Shieldwall doesn't count? At first wanting Jaina to expel the Horde from Dalaran. Then, sympathizing with the plight of the BElves at the hands of Garrosh and becoming open to inducting them completely into the Alliance. How about refusing to study and weaponize the Sha because he's not willing to sacrifice his people for victory?

    Then he's becoming wiser, with a broader world view, and learning to sympathize more with the races of the Horde. A change from his previous stance of wanting to wipe them all off the face of Azeroth. He can differentiate between the truly despicable and those just trying to scratch out a living.

    “The attack on Theramore cannot even properly be described. There are opponents, and there are enemies; there are civilized beings, and there are monsters. There was a time when I made no such distinction. But being able to now makes our path even clearer and more righteous. By choosing to detonate a mana bomb over a populous city—an abominable act of utter cowardice—Garrosh Hellscream has clearly demonstrated what he is. And as he and those who follow him have chosen to be monsters, we will treat them thus.”
    He continued. “We will never retaliate in kind. For we choose differently. But we will fight. We will stop them so they cannot continue their methodical conquest. We will embody all the Alliance stands for, and we will do so united. I stand here not alone today, but with King Genn Greymane. His people have turned a curse into a gift. The worgen will battle with greater hearts than you have ever seen—proving that they, unlike our foes, are not monsters. Without the aid of our dwarven and gnomish brothers and sisters, these glorious vessels could never have been built in time to save the rest of Kalimdor from falling to the Horde. The kaldorei, long our allies and to whose aid we go, already have many ships waiting to join us as they fight to free themselves. And the draenei, who have been as sure a compass of righteousness as any that could be imagined since their arrival in our world, stand here ready to spill their blood for others.”


    There's plenty of Varian development if you pay attention.

    Quote Originally Posted by babo7000 View Post
    3) Siege of Orgrimmar: Given, 5.4 isn't released yet, but we all know what will happen. Horde will have more of a reason to be there, a Horde NPC will most likely score the killing blow, and the Alliance will just up and leave, with no reason to do so.

    Why is the Alliance here? I understand Garrosh is a serious threat, and by the end of the fight will be unimaginably powerful. But, why shouldn't we just let the Horde go and kill themselves, then attack? Why do we HAVE to siege with them? Because all of a sudden, everything that ever happened under the Horde banner was because of Garrosh?

    Why are we just leaving? Oh, because it will cause dissent in the Alliance later on. But lets be realistic. How much times have we been told that our story is going to get better. How much times have we been told our moment will come?
    So you want the Alliance to attack separately? Attacking after the rebellion is crushed reduces the chances of victory because now Garrosh is focused completely on the Alliance forces. Attacking simultaneously but separate without coordinating will lead to a lot of collateral damage between the Horde and Alliance sieges and also reduce the chances of victory.

    I'm not surprised you don't understand what's going on considering the previous section where you missed all of Varian's character development. Wrathion spells out exactly what would have happened if Varian continued the assault on the Horde after Garrosh is defeated: The war would be long and drawn out with massive casualties. Just to crush people he can already identify as not being hostile towards the Alliance and open to cooperation/almost rejoined the Alliance.

    Quote Originally Posted by babo7000 View Post
    We are told that Alliance will be leading the next expansion more powerful than ever, while the Horde will have to pick itself up. I would not hold my breathe. Blizzard is clearly dangling a carrot on a stick in front of us, and despite what they say, they do find the Horde more interesting.

    I'm sorry, I don't usually rant, but I'm just getting tired of seeing any Alliance player who raises their hand in objection get shot down because they are babies. Besides, it's Blizzards fault these babies were born.
    So just jumping to wild conclusions...
    Last edited by Aquamonkey; 2013-08-17 at 10:53 PM.
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    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    ´So.. sorry to bring this up but..you know that .."thing" (Med'an).. is that "thing" cannon still?
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