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  1. #121
    Quote Originally Posted by Dedralie View Post
    Someone linked my Amplification trinket article above, and it covers this. You get a 3.5% bonus to the size of the heal, creating a 3.5% bonus to the size of the DA created by the heal when wearing the Amplification trinket. If you sum it all up it works out to a total of 7% bonus to your Crit healing.

    It's just harder to see because your Mastery steps in and mucks with things, but I walk through it in the post, here is a direct link to the Disc priest-relevant bit:

    http://healiocentric.wordpress.com/2...s-in-5-4/#disc
    Which still makes the crit heal only 3.5% bigger instead of the 7% it should give.
    (50%*3.5%+50%*3.5%=3.5% not 7%)
    For the whole to get an increase of 7% all parts of the whole need an average increase of 7%!

  2. #122
    Grunt Dedralie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noradin View Post
    Which still makes the crit heal only 3.5% bigger instead of the 7% it should give.
    (50%*3.5%+50%*3.5%=3.5% not 7%)
    For the whole to get an increase of 7% all parts of the whole need an average increase of 7%!
    Please read the post and look at the math.

    Your equation is subtly wrong, because you've excluded the fact that your critical heals do twice as much healing. Let's say "H" stands for the amount that your spell would have healed for when not a crit, so that a crit (the combined heal + Divine Aegis) is 2H. The actual equation is:

    1.035*(0.5*2H) + 1.035*(0.5*2H) = 1.035H + 1.035H = 2.07H.

    This is the exact same benefit that all healers get from the Amp trinket crit bonus. It isn't like the meta gem one where it says 3% but makes your crits 2.06H instead of 2H. It is an additive bonus tacked on after the crit is identified & calculated, such that your crit is 2.07 times what your non-crit heal would have been.
    Last edited by Dedralie; 2013-09-17 at 11:14 PM.

  3. #123
    Then that is not 7% bigger crits. The tooltip is wrong and crits are 3.5% bigger not 7%, your mastery should not affect the calculation at all. Your aegis should be 3.5% bigger and your crit should be 3.5% bigger. Adding them together should make your crit exactly 3.5% bigger. Usually a "crit is x% bigger" mechanic works the same as the old burning meta i.e. the crit itself was exactly 7% bigger. 2.07 means 3.5% bigger crits.

    Still I don't believe that is correct at all. When I tested it I was getting exactly 4.05% bigger crits.

    Either way either this is a bug and blizzard should fix it, or they should change the tooltip.

  4. #124
    Quote Originally Posted by Dedralie View Post
    Please read the post and look at the math.

    Your equation is subtly wrong, because you've excluded the fact that your critical heals do twice as much healing. Let's say "H" stands for the amount that your spell would have healed for when not a crit, so that a crit (the combined heal + Divine Aegis) is 2H. The actual equation is:

    1.035*(0.5*2H) + 1.035*(0.5*2H) = 1.035H + 1.035H = 2.07H.

    This is the exact same benefit that all healers get from the Amp trinket crit bonus. It isn't like the meta gem one where it says 3% but makes your crits 2.06H instead of 2H. It is an additive bonus tacked on after the crit is identified & calculated, such that your crit is 2.07 times what your non-crit heal would have been.
    If a crit heal is healing for 200, I expect a 7% increase to critical heals to result in 214 healing. 207 is just not what I'm expecting.

    The fact that it's not consistent between the meta gem and the trinket while they have similar wording leads me to believe that the trinket is simply bugged or that Blizzard needs to reword it.

  5. #125
    Grunt Dedralie's Avatar
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    Well, my point is all healers are getting the same benefit from it. Everyone is getting 2.07X, Disc Priests included. Perhaps Blizzard worded it misleadingly, but Disc priests aren't getting ripped off in any way.

    Re: Havoc

    A long time ago on PTR it was giving 1% extra crit bonus than it stated on the tooltip. This is no longer the case; it got fixed around the same time that they changed it to be a non-rounded value. Sounds like you tested it when it was actually giving "8%" crit bonus despite saying "7%".
    Last edited by Dedralie; 2013-09-18 at 02:03 AM.

  6. #126
    Maybe we are getting ripped off because no other troughoutput trinket works for us and cloak is far less beneficial to discs than to any other class. So we are basically losing hps left and right while other classes are thriving.


    edit: so which trinket to choose? Are we better of with just two regen trinkets?

  7. #127
    Quote Originally Posted by Dedralie View Post
    Well, my point is all healers are getting the same benefit from it. Everyone is getting 2.07X, Disc Priests included. Perhaps Blizzard worded it misleadingly, but Disc priests aren't getting ripped off in any way.
    Then you should have put it that way in the first place, because thinking about it it is consistent with how the used the percentage symbol (%) for increases in the past.
    Increaes: '%' (generally, but there are exceptions) means percentage points, which are then additive with each other and the base value; Decreases: '%' means percentage, which (the percentages) are multiplicative with each other and with the sum of increases and base value.

    The whole problem is the misuse of the percentage symbol ('%') for percentage points, really, because that should be 'pp'. Thus most tooltips concerning increases are strictly speaking mathematically incorrect, its just not always obvious, which is why we forget about it all the time.

  8. #128
    Just got the amp trinket, it's ridiculous.

    proc gives me +40% damage and healing, and an additional 7.5% critical strike, giving me almost 50% more power for 15 seconds. 1 sec cast 160k crit smites while on archangel/infusion/lifeblood, amazing.

  9. #129
    If this is by design they did it so that everyone gets the equivalent extra healing from crit supplied by 7% of their current crit rate.

    If your crits are x% bigger, then each crit heals for an additional 1+2x of a normal heal. That means for every crit you do an additional (1+2x) healing. This is equivalent to multiplying your crit rate by (1+2x). Thus 7% bigger crits would effectively increase your crit rate by 14%. For discipline it would increase aegis by 7% of your crit rate and your healing by 7% of your crit rate. If the % bonus is half what is stated on the tooltip then other healers would gain a bonus to crit equal to 7% of their current crit rate, while disc would get a bonus of 3.5% of their crit rate in terms of aegis creation adn 3.5% of their crit rate to healing.

    For disc with 35% crit rate the bonus to crit rate would be the equivalent of having 1.225% extra crit and an additional bonus of 1.225% on heals that does not affect aegis.

  10. #130
    @Havoc12:

    No thats the problem with percentage and percentage points in this.
    The way Blizzard treads them crits are just normal heals with a 'critical' flag.
    Normally that flag just gives an 100% increase to the heal, making criticals heal for twice of a normal heal (or for disc gives an absorb equal to the heal).
    If they say increases critical heals by 7% then they really mean 7pp are added to the 100pp of the original heal and the 100pp for it being a crit in the first place, which gives 207pp (or a factor of 2.07 to the original non critical heal) overall. This equals applying a factor of 1.035 to the critical heal (assuming no other effects, if you had the meta for exampel it would be a bit less), which is correctly applied to both the heal and the absorb portion in our case. Its just the incorrect terminology Blizzard uses in the tooltips that makes it appear as if we are short changed due to a math error in their side. (If one doesn't check the increase other specs get.)
    The meter gems work the same and I remember discussions about that way back, too.

    ttlt.: The math is 'correct'; the terminology is not. Blizzard just uses '%' incorrectly, most likely because most people would understand even less if they used the correct symbol instead (which would be 'pp'). Furthermore newspapers and all kinds of semi-scientific puplications commonly missuse the '%' symbol the same way, sometimes intentionally.
    Last edited by Noradin; 2013-09-20 at 01:12 PM.

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