Quick 5.4 WW stat priority question

[Girthmonster]

Hey all,

So from what Ive been reading in some other threads in this forum, our stat priority will be somewhat like it was pre-RoR correct? Haste to comfort > crit > mastery?

If not could anyone please enlighten me to the direction we're headed? I also assume the new mastery totally nullifies the potency of RoR so I'd be forced to grab another trinket...? yes?

Thanks for the help.

Edit: the GCD cap seems to be about 9250 haste? Would one be gunning directly for that out of the gate then dumping everything else into crit?

[Luneward]

That would probably be a fairly good starting point to work from as far as stat priorities go. Though once you pick up set bonuses, you could probably let haste go a bit lower and put more of those stats into crit/mastery. Until they finish numbers passes and tuning, I wouldn't stress much about it though.

And RoR will be horribly gimped - at least in comparison to what it used to be. I'd personally go with a Renataki/Bad Juju combo if you have it. If you don't.... well I'm personally probably going to keep it until I get SoO trinkets and just reforge for crit. Pop Energizing Brew and a ten stack of TeB when it procs and you'll be running 9-10 seconds with +60% damage and 100% crit. Maybe not as good as the raw stats from the other trinkets, but still could unload a lot of damage while the trinket is active.

[Girthmonster]

Has there been any work done on trinkets? I can't seem to find any anywhere?

[Professor Hurt]

Has there been any work done on trinkets? I can't seem to find any anywhere?

Yeah, over on the EJ forums (elitistjerks.com/f99/t131848-ww_5_3_enter_fist/p51/).

Also, according to the SimC monk module, a double upgraded Vicious Talisman of the Shado-Pan Assault is worth about 10k more dps for me (going from 543 RoRo to 530 VT). Some food for thought if you're stuck with RoRo going into 5.4.

To the OP, that sounds about right, but if you end up with AoC your personal haste cap may be a bit lower (due to the ~43 second cooldown on EB). I think I'm at about 8500 haste on the PTR right now and it feels pretty comfortable, with an occasional energy cap.

[Hinalover]

To the OP, that sounds about right, but if you end up with AoC your personal haste cap may be a bit lower (due to the ~43 second cooldown on EB). I think I'm at about 8500 haste on the PTR right now and it feels pretty comfortable, with an occasional energy cap.

The AoC is equivalent to 1433 Haste rating with Ascension and 1648 Haste rating without (basically the trinket adds 0.388 average energy regen (IE 10.388 energy regen])

See my math on how I got these numbers here:

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...6530?page=3#46

[Crevan]

From my very limited testing, I think crit and mastery could be very close in value. We'll have a more definite answer once spreadsheets and Simc are finalised for 5.4, but as things stand right now, I might actually keep my stat setup as it is now once the patch hits. That means 9k-10k haste, which is about what I can handle without much problems, with the rest spread equally between crit and mastery.

Also, I do believe that mastery-stacked Rune will still be competitive, just not as extreme as it is right now. Assuming you would normally generate around 3 stacks of Tigereye in 10 seconds, this would turn into 10-12 stacks with a Rune proc. That averages to around 10 extra stacks of TEB every minute with a 541 Rune. I do not know yet whether or not this will be better than other options.

[George Costanza]

Slightly curious, why is the haste cap 9-10k (or well so i have heard) in 5.4 but in 5.3 it is more like 5-8k?

[Crevan]

Haste cap is however much you can handle without wasting too much resources. Some people prefer around 7k, others more. I'm just under 10k because of Rune optimisation, and it's still quite manageable even with occasional FoF and EB usage.

[Killerpalm]

Priority seems to be like hit/exp/haste caps > crit >= mastery. More interesting to me is gemming in 5.4. Will secondaries still outweight agility? Will we gem straight agi in red sockets or agi/haste, agi/crit hybrids?

[Deleted]

If you're going to use rune after the patch you need to make sure you are correctly managing your Chi at 3-5 stacks at all times so you can make the most out of it. I'll probably try it out, but end up switching to a more 'normal' setup. Agility>Haste(8Kish)>Crit>Mastery. For trinkets I've been mainly going with Haromm's Talisman (Multistrike); Ticking Ebon Detonator (Reverse Renetakis) and Assurance of Consequence (CDR). I was also running with the cleave trinket for AoE situations but it recently got nerfed, and kinda sucks now.
The multistrike trinket has been doing 3-4% of my damage, ignoring the Agi proc. The CDR one just allows you to go for lower haste, but you really need to be able to get use of the FoFs IMO for it to be really worth it, not to mention this trinket is insane for rogues/ferals/hunters. Finally the Reverse Renetakis one is pretty nice, but sometimes hard to get the most use out of it.
If nothing changes I think I will aim to try and get the Multistrike one and then probs try and coin/get lucky with the CDR one. Would love to see if we have any numbers from Simc for the trinket though, as this is all based purely on feeling.

[Hinalover]

I have a funny feeling that it's going to be Multistrike and the Reverse-stacking trinket which will be BiS. CDR will be close but I just don't see it as useful. Still curious if Thok's Tail Wip (Strength trinket that increases Haste/Mastery rating as well as Crit damage) will have a Strength only protection to it or not. That trinket MAY have some usefulness for us.

[NeverStop]

The Cleave trinket (Sigil of Rampage) is actually better than the Multistrike trinket if there are 2+ meaningful adds out at all times. Tbh I don't think I'm gonna get brought in on single target only fights (for example Malkorok) so I'm just gonna optimize for AoE / Cleave fights and hope WW are really strong on Heroic Garrosh.

[Deleted]

The Cleave trinket (Sigil of Rampage) is actually better than the Multistrike trinket if there are 2+ meaningful adds out at all times. Tbh I don't think I'm gonna get brought in on single target only fights (for example Malkorok) so I'm just gonna optimize for AoE / Cleave fights and hope WW are really strong on Heroic Garrosh.

Any proof to back up the claim about Mutilstrike and the Cleave trinket? Not saying your wrong or trying to incite anything, just interested.

@Hinalover - I don't think there is much point in going for that trinket as the gain for STR users is so much larger.

[Saltycracker]

Ascension I would put our haste cap at around 9000. Try that out and adjust it based on your needs.

I've been really down on Fists of Fury lately, and mathematically it is a loss to use when you are GCD capped. What I'm finding is that when you have enough haste to be GCD capped, if you are using your GCDs for cooldowns, Storm Earth and Fire, or a boss moves out of range, you energy cap very easily, so that haste gets wasted. For example, my spreadsheet is showing a GCD capped rotation in 5.4 and 2pT15 to be about 12,000. I've ran that on a PTR dummy and while it's playable, it's very fast, and doesn't leave a lot of room for error and can cap energy easily. So in practice it might be a better idea to back haste off a little, and lean on FOF during low energy periods in your rotation if only to put those stats into crit/mastery.

I've also had good results on the PTR with a full haste build and going Chi Brew, and I was doing more damage as compared to Ascension. It takes a little practice playing with a 4 chi cap, but having instant access to Chi is very nice when your RSK is almost off CD and you don't have to jab to hit it.

Any proof to back up the claim about Mutilstrike and the Cleave trinket? Not saying your wrong or trying to incite anything, just interested.

@Hinalover - I don't think there is much point in going for that trinket as the gain for STR users is so much larger.

Iirc, and anecdotal, but the cleave trinket was bugged on the PTR and not proccing correctly (< once per min). I know I used it on Spoils and it did abysmally. I'm guessing that it's going to be fixed for live, but this could be the reason that it's perceived as bad.

[NeverStop]

Any proof to back up the claim about Mutilstrike and the Cleave trinket? Not saying your wrong or trying to incite anything, just interested.

@Hinalover - I don't think there is much point in going for that trinket as the gain for STR users is so much larger.

Haromm's Talisman

14% chance to do 33% extra damage on each attack = 4.66% extra damage.
Proc is worth 11761 * 10 / (60 / 0.92) Agi = 1803 Agi

Sigil of Rampage

3.11% chance to do 100% extra damage (to each other target) = 3.11% damage per extra target. 0% damage increase on single target, 15.55% increase on fight with 6 targets).
Proc is worth 11761 * 15 / 85 Agi = 2075 Agi (might be less because the trinket won't always proc as soon as it's off ICD)

TeD and AoC give approximately the same average Agi from their procs as the Cleave and Multistrike trinkets, so it comes down to the static stats.

Assuming 30% crit chance from just Agi and 5% crit buff and 0 Crit rating, this graph shows the % damage increase from adding Crit rating, relative to 0 rating baseline.

http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i...%2C+6000%7D%5D

Solve for 3.11% increase: http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i...1.0311%2C+x%5D

yields ~2400 rating.

This also shows just how bad our "best" secondary stat's scaling is. 600 rating for 1% increase is already nothing to be excited about, but add the fact that Crit's effectiveness decreases the more Agi and Crit rating you get and WW have no mechanic that interacts with Crit shows how horrible Crit really is.

[Saltycracker]

This also shows just how bad our "best" secondary stat's scaling is. 600 rating for 1% increase is already nothing to be excited about, but add the fact that Crit's effectiveness decreases the more Agi and Crit rating you get and WW have no mechanic that interacts with Crit shows how horrible Crit really is.

Crit scales logarithmically, so 1% more crit is always less than 1% more damage.

If you have 50% crit, that means that you are doing 150% of your damage on average. If you gain 1% crit, you are now doing 151% average damage. 151/150 = 1.0066 or a 0.66% damage increase from the bonus crit.

I'm glad that crit doesn't interact with anything special in our rotation. It's a strong stat as is, but it it procced other things, nothing else could compete with it, and we would be warriors.

[Girthmonster]

I'm obviously not nearly the talented number cruncher that the rest of you are, but would these trinket procs still mean I'd be waiting for a trinket to proc to unload my TeB stacks? Unless I hit 20 stacks without a proc, in which case I would just unload it either way to not waste stack gains?

[Saltycracker]

I'm obviously not nearly the talented number cruncher that the rest of you are, but would these trinket procs still mean I'd be waiting for a trinket to proc to unload my TeB stacks? Unless I hit 20 stacks without a proc, in which case I would just unload it either way to not waste stack gains?

Most likely, or save them for when the boss takes more damage or some other time sensitive part of an encounter. My motto is use them early and often. The damage bonus is equal whether you use them only at 10 stacks, or blanket your rotation with TEB.

[Girthmonster]

Most likely, or save them for when the boss takes more damage or some other time sensitive part of an encounter. My motto is use them early and often. The damage bonus is equal whether you use them only at 10 stacks, or blanket your rotation with TEB.

By blanket, this is always implied that a trinket is proccing. Or that the boss is taking extra dmg. Ie you don't just pop it at 10 stacks with nothing going for you?

[Crevan]

"Blanket" means you use it whenever it's available, regardless of the number of stacks. Like Slice & Dice.