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  1. #341
    Quote Originally Posted by Torais View Post
    I suppose because Sylvanas has a backstory, a believable motive and objective. She might be evil in the eyes of most but if you look at what happened to her and her people, you could almost forgive her for being so. Not to mention she is far more cunning and her plots are at least interesting.

    Garrosh on the other hand is evil for the sake of being evil. My biggest problem is there is practically no motive or explanation how he want from "Arrogant but generally loyal to the tenants of the Horde" to "cartoon-level super villain". He is evil purely for the sake of being evil it would seem and that is just bad writing. There is no motive or real explanation how he wound up in the state of mind he is now. His hatred of the Alliance is generally unexplained and his bizarre loathing of most of the Horde is even more of a mystery as until he started abusing his power, he had no real reason to have issue with any of the non-orc races.
    Then you don't understand his backstory, which is actually pretty good. He came from nowhere, gained all this power and doesn't know what to do with it.

    Because he came from nowhere he has his doubters, not least for his father's reputation, so he's always trying to prove himself, mostly to himself that he's worthy of this power. He also needs to show his power, firstly by ramping up hostilities to the obvious foes, the Alliance, and ultimately against the non-Orc Horde as a demonstrator that he's great, and in order to convince his followers that he's on the right path, that all Orcs are great and powerful, like him.

    That's why even a total victory would never be enough for him; he personifies the attitude of 'Not only must I win, but everyone else must lose.' Sylvannas doesn't seem to show any real need to go that extra step beyond winning.

  2. #342
    I love them both. That's what you have to do.

  3. #343
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    But it has been a "matter of time" for over 10 years now.
    Can we now start to accept that she's walking the line and she will never go evil because that would make her story predictable and boring?

    "Training" isn't so bad either, most medieval societies would kill you for what he did.
    She is already evil, someone who isn't evil would never even think of killing and raising your enemies as zombies meant to fight your battles.

    I agree that it would be both predictable and boring for her to become some form of boss, I don't want it either, I hate it when Blizzard does it, they killed off both Kael'thas and Illidan that way and it doesn't make for even remotely good story. But considering that's the sort of thing Blizzard seems to like, since they are even doing it with Garrosh now, and possibly even Jaina in the near future, I wouldn't be surprised if they did it with Sylvanas.

    I think medieval societies had a terribly unjust justice system and claiming what she did is fine just because they might have done something similar is just silly...

    What about the usage of plague? Even though her Warchief gave her a direct order not to use it, she still did. Shows how well she can be trusted.

  4. #344
    Quote Originally Posted by Chaozu View Post
    I think medieval societies had a terribly unjust justice system and claiming what she did is fine just because they might have done something similar is just silly...
    He commited treason during wartime and was punished. We don't actually know what she did to him.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chaozu View Post
    What about the usage of plague? Even though her Warchief gave her a direct order not to use it, she still did. Shows how well she can be trusted.
    A watered down piece of crap that didn't do anything.

    This is a war, right? We're supposed to be able to kill our enemies with our weapons, right?
    This blight is useless.
    What did they test this crap on? Murlocs?
    Watered down garbage. Doesn't even slow 'em down.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    I'm determined to someday make Med'an awesome. (MickyNeilson)
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    ´So.. sorry to bring this up but..you know that .."thing" (Med'an).. is that "thing" cannon still?
    ...as much have some have wished otherwise, yes. (Loreology)

  5. #345
    Herald of the Titans Arganis's Avatar
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    Because tits.

  6. #346
    I'd say it's because Sylvanas is cunning and Garrosh is just brutal. It's easier to sympathize with Sylvanas because Warcraft 3 players watched her torment first hand. What is Garrosh's problem? Sure his planet was destroyed, but not by the Alliance. He inherited a Horde of different skinned orcs on another world. He didn't earn the right to become Warchief and when he was challenged to mak'gora it wasn't his strength that kept it. He's some big thug with a sense of entitlement to something he isn't entitled to. Sylvanas is a Queen that stands up for /all/ of her people, defends them, has died for them twice and is loyal to the bone. Garrosh is just, in many ways, naive.

    Personally, until he turned his back on the rest of the Horde, I've loved Garrosh since Borean Tundra. I hoped he gets redeemed and doesn't die.

  7. #347
    Quote Originally Posted by Chaozu View Post
    She is already evil, someone who isn't evil would never even think of killing and raising your enemies as zombies meant to fight your battles.
    You might say it's evil, but I think it's rather clever.
    Better than sacrificing your own soldiers.
    We have to work with what we have after all!

  8. #348
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    He commited treason during wartime and was punished. We don't actually know what she did to him.
    True, but it can't really be anything good. Just speculation here but I would guess she's toying and altering his mind so that he will do what she desires, she feels that he is too important to kill off but in his current state he's no good either. So she changes him into something she finds more useful.


    Perhaps, but she still ignored a direct order from her Warchief, and just because this blight was close to harmless, that doesn't justify doing it.

    If someone attacks and tries to kill another, it doesn't really matter if they failed because the weapon wasn't dangerous enough, they still tried to do it.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Wanko View Post
    You might say it's evil, but I think it's rather clever.
    Better than sacrificing your own soldiers.
    We have to work with what we have after all!
    One can be both clever and evil at the same time, the first doesn't really rule out the second.

  9. #349
    Garrosh has intentionally slighted the non-Orc members of the horde. He has more than once failed to meet his obligations to the Horde.

    Sylvanas' has never stepped on anyone in the Horde. She asks Lor'themar if she can raise their own dead. He tells her no, she accepts this.
    Goblins didn't get paid, Garrosh was willing to sacrifice the blood elves, Garrosh did not listen to the Vol'Jin when he stated the dark magic of the
    Mogu was not ok to mess with, that it would destroy those who tried to wield it, and then Garrosh turned on the Trolls... and was ready to slaughter
    them all. He is brutish, and does not consider the cost of his actions.
    We think we climb so high, Upon the backs we've condemned ...We face our Conϛequence.

  10. #350
    Quote Originally Posted by Concequence View Post
    Garrosh has intentionally slighted the non-Orc members of the horde. He has more than once failed to meet his obligations to the Horde.
    When did he intentionally slight the non-orc members of the Horde? He just punished them for being insubordinate. They wouldn't shut up about how much they loved Jaina, didn't want to fight the Alliance, and questioned every order he gave. He was doing it all for them. He wanted to give them victories so they would acknowledge him as a great Warchief.

    They were loved and respected by their people, and both did have true loyalty to the Horde, if not to Garrosh individually. Soon, they would come to heel and acknowledge that his tactics had been beyond brilliant—indeed, that he had achieved more for the Horde than any leader, including the adored Thrall, had ever done.
    Then they would honor him as well as the Horde, and he would show his magnanimity to them as he had with Captain Briln. Garrosh permitted a pleased, rather smug smile to curve his lips.

    --Tides of War
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    I'm determined to someday make Med'an awesome. (MickyNeilson)
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    ´So.. sorry to bring this up but..you know that .."thing" (Med'an).. is that "thing" cannon still?
    ...as much have some have wished otherwise, yes. (Loreology)

  11. #351
    The Lightbringer Zuben's Avatar
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    Because Garrosh sends us to our death for moot reasons or has us killed himself.
    Now you see it. Now you don't.

  12. #352
    Scarab Lord Grubjuice's Avatar
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    Charisma like a divine gift is ineffible and inexplicable. Sylvanas has charisma. Garrosh does not.

  13. #353
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    A watered down piece of crap that didn't do anything.
    so people say the Plague is terrible eh? For what? Doing the same thing any other weapon does?
    Weapons are weapons and they ALL do the same exact thing, cause harm, kill, destroy, and all that stuff
    Either all weapons are somehow 'bad' or none of them are

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Concequence View Post
    Sylvanas' has never stepped on anyone in the Horde.
    as i recall she 'blackmailed' the Elves into sending troops to Northrend

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Concequence View Post
    Garrosh was willing to sacrifice the blood elves
    if your not willing to sacrifice or take risks you wont be going far in war
    We have faced trials and danger, threats to our world and our way of life. And yet, we persevere. We are the Horde. We will not let anything break our spirits!"

  14. #354
    The tits, son, the tits...

    Aside from that, Sylvanas's true agenda is somewhat a mystery - she might turn against the rest of the horde and the belves, the might commit suicide, she might become the new LK, she might get married and spawn more overlords - WHO KNOWS?!

    Garrosh was a racist with a global conquest idea - and nothing else.
    He simply had no character depth or anything else, just the racism and the desire for conquest.

  15. #355
    Scarab Lord Maxilian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Acnoctus View Post
    At least for me, Sylvanas is more gray. She isn't nearly as ambitious as Garrosh and by all evidence just seems to want to have her borders secured. She seems more like the person who would clearly mark off her property and hang a "no solicitors" sign on the front gate. She didn't really want to go and fight the Gilneans... Garrosh kinda forced that upon her. Nor is she showing any aggression to her northern neighbors.

    Plus she gets some points for literally dying for her people, then rebelling against her masters to lead the undead who were unjustly slaughtered to new freedom and prosperity. Garrosh has always been very... grating. Ever since TBC, he's been portrayed as a guy I'd just rather not deal with. Sylvanas was, and is, just an all-around more fleshed out and more well-crafted character.
    These... also... no i don't like boobs so that's not a reason... at least for me

  16. #356
    Elemental Lord Arbs's Avatar
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    Sylvanas is a very good character, not saying Garrosh isn't, But Sylvanas can control herself she has the respect of her other fellow Faction Leaders while Garrosh has lost it. I wish we find out what Sylvanas has been up to this expansion during Org or atleast in Patch 5.5.

  17. #357
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    Quote Originally Posted by Torais View Post
    My biggest problem is there is practically no motive or explanation how he want from "Arrogant but generally loyal to the tenants of the Horde" to "cartoon-level super villain". .
    desperate times call for desperate measures?
    We have faced trials and danger, threats to our world and our way of life. And yet, we persevere. We are the Horde. We will not let anything break our spirits!"

  18. #358
    Pit Lord Tzalix's Avatar
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    Because boobs.

    No, really, she's cool.

    And don't forget the boobs.
    The world is full of evil and lies and pain and death, and you can't hide from it... You can only face it. The question is, when you do, how do you respond? Who do you become?

  19. #359
    Herald of the Titans Wishblade's Avatar
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    Because Sylvanas can't command the other races to do dumb things. She's got the Forsaken, a few other Horde peeps and she fights the Alliance. She expands her lands and gains power, sure, but not at the complete expense of the Horde. If she started to actively show disregard for the other races then sure, I'd dislike her, just like Garrosh. But until then she'll just be a powerful leader of the Horde. Garrosh would've been the same, if not for the active jerk moves.
    "Reminds me of a dog, you stare at it while it's playing outside... Running around in a circle, then stopping up, wagging with a wide "grin". Jumping around until you call for the dog, then it lowers its tail because it think it's done something bad... And then you throw the ball, seeing the tail go straight into the air in bliss! ^^" - Gehco
    Wishblade of Draenor EU

  20. #360
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    Quote Originally Posted by Torais View Post
    His hatred of the Alliance is generally unexplained and his bizarre loathing of most of the Horde is even more of a mystery as until he started abusing his power, he had no real reason to have issue with any of the non-orc races.
    All of those were explained and existed, though in less extreme states within his first few days in Org

    He hates the Alliance because they defeated and imprisoned the Horde, and how they are currently the main obstacle to the level of glory/power/prosperity he feels the Horde should have

    Back then, it may not have been outright hatrd but he did hold some contempt for the other races, mostly because he sees them as draining the Orcs power rather than adding to it. For you may inherit your allies strength, but also their problems.
    We have faced trials and danger, threats to our world and our way of life. And yet, we persevere. We are the Horde. We will not let anything break our spirits!"

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