Why do players hate Garrosh but like Sylvanas?

[Deleted]

I like Sylvanas and hate Garrosh, why?

1 Sylvanas' story is alot better than Garrosh's, who was a depressed little boy in Nagrand untill he got recruited to the horde and suddenly becomes an asshole and gains an unjustified huge hatred for the Alliance who he didn't even know existed before.

2 Sylvanas is coherent in her behavior, Garrosh isn't, and I'm not just talking about that questline in Stonetalon mountains but also the fact that Garrosh hates demons so much (that's justified) but yet he's ok with using old gods? How can he think old gods are any better than demons?

3 Garrosh is dumb as hell, anyone who did the Twilight Highlands intro quest on horde can see that.

4 Garrosh's hatred for the Alliance that I mentioned already, it's completly unjustified, I mean sure he isn't sopposed to like the Alliance but why so much hate? They didn't do anything to him atleast untill he came from Nagrand, but he already had that hate in WotLK, maybe it's because of Grom participating in the first and second wars againt the humans? But that doesn't make sense either because it was him and the other orcs that invaded Azeroth in the first place (they didn't have a choice but still, the humans didn't have a choice but to fight back), not the other way around, and it wasn't even the Alliance that killed him.

5 Sylvanas is forsaken/elf, Garrosh is an orc...while I don't hate orcs by any means I don't really care about them either so that doesn't help me like Garrosh, forsaken on the other hand are my second favourite race.

[Xiphan]

Sylvanas isn't in charge of the entire Horde, so those similarities affect players differently.

It's pretty cool to have a darker faction leader who only really cares for their own race's survival, but it's not so cool when that faction leader is placed in charge of all the races they overtly distain.

[Falu]

I liked both, untill they utterly ruined Garrosh.... they were developing his character throughout cata to become a true leader, tougher, and nastier than Thrall, but stilll a cool warchief, he made stuff interesting...
They just got too lazy deciding to make him a bad guy in the end... after so much buildup.

[Scummer]

I'd have to say it's because for a time she was a well developed character. Atm I find she's really out of place in the Horde and ultimately brings them down.

[Deleted]

This may be spoilers but.......



I think after the SOO is over the horde and alliance will be united again and i think by the discovery of the horde raising the alliance dead back to life will keep the spark between horde and alliance alive. Because lets face it how pissed off would you be if your a king and your war heroes who died for you were brought back to life by your enemy for your enemy.

[Doombringer]

Garrosh is loud, obnoxious, and has had poor characterization right along. "Are we supposed to pity him? Wait, now we're supposed to like him. Hold on, now he's got a chip on his shoulder, should we hate him? Oh, now he's acting somewhat honorable, should we like him again? Wait, now he's frothing at the mouth and acting brash again. Hey, now he's acting tough, I can kind of get behind this. Oh no, he's back to being crazy again... and racist? WTF? And now he's power-mad..."

Sylvanas has at least been consistent from Vanilla to now. She's far more subtle, has her likable qualities, but also is cold as ice and can turn up the badassery. She broods at times, but we can understand her doing so given her backstory. Her T&A doesn't hurt, either. I think it's a bit of a stretch to make her an outright villain, but I like that they gave her a motive and a reason to carry it out -- she wants to see her people, and her empire, continue to exist, and Forsaken cannot reproduce, so it's Scourgin' time.

[Torais]

I suppose because Sylvanas has a backstory, a believable motive and objective. She might be evil in the eyes of most but if you look at what happened to her and her people, you could almost forgive her for being so. Not to mention she is far more cunning and her plots are at least interesting.

Garrosh on the other hand is evil for the sake of being evil. My biggest problem is there is practically no motive or explanation how he want from "Arrogant but generally loyal to the tenants of the Horde" to "cartoon-level super villain". He is evil purely for the sake of being evil it would seem and that is just bad writing. There is no motive or real explanation how he wound up in the state of mind he is now. His hatred of the Alliance is generally unexplained and his bizarre loathing of most of the Horde is even more of a mystery as until he started abusing his power, he had no real reason to have issue with any of the non-orc races.

[Jessicka]

I suppose because Sylvanas has a backstory, a believable motive and objective. She might be evil in the eyes of most but if you look at what happened to her and her people, you could almost forgive her for being so. Not to mention she is far more cunning and her plots are at least interesting.

Garrosh on the other hand is evil for the sake of being evil. My biggest problem is there is practically no motive or explanation how he want from "Arrogant but generally loyal to the tenants of the Horde" to "cartoon-level super villain". He is evil purely for the sake of being evil it would seem and that is just bad writing. There is no motive or real explanation how he wound up in the state of mind he is now. His hatred of the Alliance is generally unexplained and his bizarre loathing of most of the Horde is even more of a mystery as until he started abusing his power, he had no real reason to have issue with any of the non-orc races.

Then you don't understand his backstory, which is actually pretty good. He came from nowhere, gained all this power and doesn't know what to do with it.

Because he came from nowhere he has his doubters, not least for his father's reputation, so he's always trying to prove himself, mostly to himself that he's worthy of this power. He also needs to show his power, firstly by ramping up hostilities to the obvious foes, the Alliance, and ultimately against the non-Orc Horde as a demonstrator that he's great, and in order to convince his followers that he's on the right path, that all Orcs are great and powerful, like him.

That's why even a total victory would never be enough for him; he personifies the attitude of 'Not only must I win, but everyone else must lose.' Sylvannas doesn't seem to show any real need to go that extra step beyond winning.

[ItachiZaku]

I love them both. That's what you have to do.

[Deleted]

But it has been a "matter of time" for over 10 years now.
Can we now start to accept that she's walking the line and she will never go evil because that would make her story predictable and boring?

"Training" isn't so bad either, most medieval societies would kill you for what he did.

She is already evil, someone who isn't evil would never even think of killing and raising your enemies as zombies meant to fight your battles.

I agree that it would be both predictable and boring for her to become some form of boss, I don't want it either, I hate it when Blizzard does it, they killed off both Kael'thas and Illidan that way and it doesn't make for even remotely good story. But considering that's the sort of thing Blizzard seems to like, since they are even doing it with Garrosh now, and possibly even Jaina in the near future, I wouldn't be surprised if they did it with Sylvanas.

I think medieval societies had a terribly unjust justice system and claiming what she did is fine just because they might have done something similar is just silly...

What about the usage of plague? Even though her Warchief gave her a direct order not to use it, she still did. Shows how well she can be trusted.

[Aquamonkey]

I think medieval societies had a terribly unjust justice system and claiming what she did is fine just because they might have done something similar is just silly...

He commited treason during wartime and was punished. We don't actually know what she did to him.

What about the usage of plague? Even though her Warchief gave her a direct order not to use it, she still did. Shows how well she can be trusted.

A watered down piece of crap that didn't do anything.

This is a war, right? We're supposed to be able to kill our enemies with our weapons, right?
This blight is useless.
What did they test this crap on? Murlocs?
Watered down garbage. Doesn't even slow 'em down.

[Arganis]

Because tits.

[MrSaggins]

I'd say it's because Sylvanas is cunning and Garrosh is just brutal. It's easier to sympathize with Sylvanas because Warcraft 3 players watched her torment first hand. What is Garrosh's problem? Sure his planet was destroyed, but not by the Alliance. He inherited a Horde of different skinned orcs on another world. He didn't earn the right to become Warchief and when he was challenged to mak'gora it wasn't his strength that kept it. He's some big thug with a sense of entitlement to something he isn't entitled to. Sylvanas is a Queen that stands up for /all/ of her people, defends them, has died for them twice and is loyal to the bone. Garrosh is just, in many ways, naive.

Personally, until he turned his back on the rest of the Horde, I've loved Garrosh since Borean Tundra. I hoped he gets redeemed and doesn't die.

[Deleted]

She is already evil, someone who isn't evil would never even think of killing and raising your enemies as zombies meant to fight your battles.

You might say it's evil, but I think it's rather clever.
Better than sacrificing your own soldiers.
We have to work with what we have after all!

[Deleted]

He commited treason during wartime and was punished. We don't actually know what she did to him.

True, but it can't really be anything good. Just speculation here but I would guess she's toying and altering his mind so that he will do what she desires, she feels that he is too important to kill off but in his current state he's no good either. So she changes him into something she finds more useful.

A watered down piece of crap that didn't do anything.

This is a war, right? We're supposed to be able to kill our enemies with our weapons, right?
This blight is useless.
What did they test this crap on? Murlocs?
Watered down garbage. Doesn't even slow 'em down.

Perhaps, but she still ignored a direct order from her Warchief, and just because this blight was close to harmless, that doesn't justify doing it.

If someone attacks and tries to kill another, it doesn't really matter if they failed because the weapon wasn't dangerous enough, they still tried to do it.

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You might say it's evil, but I think it's rather clever.
Better than sacrificing your own soldiers.
We have to work with what we have after all!

One can be both clever and evil at the same time, the first doesn't really rule out the second.

[Concequence]

Garrosh has intentionally slighted the non-Orc members of the horde. He has more than once failed to meet his obligations to the Horde.

Sylvanas' has never stepped on anyone in the Horde. She asks Lor'themar if she can raise their own dead. He tells her no, she accepts this.
Goblins didn't get paid, Garrosh was willing to sacrifice the blood elves, Garrosh did not listen to the Vol'Jin when he stated the dark magic of the
Mogu was not ok to mess with, that it would destroy those who tried to wield it, and then Garrosh turned on the Trolls... and was ready to slaughter
them all. He is brutish, and does not consider the cost of his actions.

[Aquamonkey]

Garrosh has intentionally slighted the non-Orc members of the horde. He has more than once failed to meet his obligations to the Horde.

When did he intentionally slight the non-orc members of the Horde? He just punished them for being insubordinate. They wouldn't shut up about how much they loved Jaina, didn't want to fight the Alliance, and questioned every order he gave. He was doing it all for them. He wanted to give them victories so they would acknowledge him as a great Warchief.

They were loved and respected by their people, and both did have true loyalty to the Horde, if not to Garrosh individually. Soon, they would come to heel and acknowledge that his tactics had been beyond brilliant—indeed, that he had achieved more for the Horde than any leader, including the adored Thrall, had ever done.
Then they would honor him as well as the Horde, and he would show his magnanimity to them as he had with Captain Briln. Garrosh permitted a pleased, rather smug smile to curve his lips.
--Tides of War

[Zuben]

Because Garrosh sends us to our death for moot reasons or has us killed himself.

[Grubjuice]

Charisma like a divine gift is ineffible and inexplicable. Sylvanas has charisma. Garrosh does not.

[Dreknar20]

A watered down piece of crap that didn't do anything.

so people say the Plague is terrible eh? For what? Doing the same thing any other weapon does?
Weapons are weapons and they ALL do the same exact thing, cause harm, kill, destroy, and all that stuff
Either all weapons are somehow 'bad' or none of them are

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Sylvanas' has never stepped on anyone in the Horde.

as i recall she 'blackmailed' the Elves into sending troops to Northrend

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Garrosh was willing to sacrifice the blood elves

if your not willing to sacrifice or take risks you wont be going far in war