1. #1
    Pit Lord Odina's Avatar
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    Heroic Iron Quon help needed

    So we are a pretty casual guild we raid 1 day for 4 hours a week and we seem to be stuck in the 2/13 slump. We had some success on Horridon but as we had a lockout at durumu from last week decided to try tackleing Iron Quon again.

    We just seem to be hit or miss... every now and then the stars align and we get far into it and then other times it's as though the wipe couldnt come faster! I just would love some feed back based on our WOL to see if anyone can see anything.

    general idea of our strat

    Solo tanked by pallie -

    Phase 1 and 2
    Melee take 3 stacks to start , then ranged group 1 take 2 and then range group 2 take 2 stacks. then we fall into 2 stacks per group rotation. We are staggering CD's as well to ensure we get the fire down fast but also have some to only get 1 tornadoe phase.

    Towards the end
    Kill order was
    dam ren , roshak, quetzal ,iron qon

    I know my dps is shiat (521 ilevel with 4 pieces being from prot so really not min maxed) and any advice on myself would be much apreciated!

    So if you see anything glaring as "this is fucking you" please let me know!
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/4...ses&boss=68078

    Thanks again ahead of time for the help!

    Iron Qon I know I know... sigh

  2. #2
    This is for the Iron Qon fights only. not going to lie, your healers are pretty terrible. If you, as a prot pally, is beating a disc priest and a holy paladin, then there is something wrong with your raid. Your paladin and priest should have MASSIVE absorbs and should be hitting 100k hps easiliy because there is quite a bit of dmg. You guys are wiping at the 2 min mark and your best attempt was a 7 min fight. Not only that, but you have a mage and a warlock. Those are real good dps if done correctly and obviously not. Also have your warlock use the gateway for the tornadoes. Other than that dude, I think your guild can BARELY do that fight. You guys have to get real lucky because your Paladin and Priest should be spanking those healing meters. Shaman not so much, but every healer should be above the tank. THeres quite a bit of damage that goes out.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Your top damage shouldn't be a hybrid Shaman. It should be a pure dps class. (Not all cases, but you have 3 PURE dps classes.) Your healers should be doing more healing. i mean you guys are dieing really earlier and Im assuming heals arent that great

  3. #3
    u guys seem to have a lot of early wipes so im guessing ur troubles are with first phase, we usually have 1 ranged group take 2 maybe 3 stacks to start then the melee take the rest for that phase rotating CDs so that u don't get a lot of arcing lighting dmg when the ranged have to stack they can just stay spread out for the first phase, our problem came with the wind storm and people getting caught mid air when taking lock portal. Kill order for last phase is fine, we try not to push 3rd dog to 25%, keep him a little bit above that mark like 28% till a dead zone pops then pop hero, its free dps cause the other dogs wont come in until dead zone ends.... then main thing is just making sure everyone makes it over alive during wind storm and this fight is a cake walk after

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Phrumtastic View Post
    This is for the Iron Qon fights only. not going to lie, your healers are pretty terrible. If you, as a prot pally, is beating a disc priest and a holy paladin, then there is something wrong with your raid. Your paladin and priest should have MASSIVE absorbs and should be hitting 100k hps easiliy because there is quite a bit of dmg. You guys are wiping at the 2 min mark and your best attempt was a 7 min fight. Not only that, but you have a mage and a warlock. Those are real good dps if done correctly and obviously not. Also have your warlock use the gateway for the tornadoes. Other than that dude, I think your guild can BARELY do that fight. You guys have to get real lucky because your Paladin and Priest should be spanking those healing meters. Shaman not so much, but every healer should be above the tank. THeres quite a bit of damage that goes out.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Your top damage shouldn't be a hybrid Shaman. It should be a pure dps class. (Not all cases, but you have 3 PURE dps classes.) Your healers should be doing more healing. i mean you guys are dieing really earlier and Im assuming heals arent that great
    dam didn't even notice the healing, ye that's a problem, our pally tank who solod did 76k heals on our first kill, our disc and pally heals were far ahead of him if I remember close to 100k a piece and our shammy just under the tank for the fight but killed it for last phase with stacking, I wish I had the log but I don't.

  4. #4
    We just killed this guy for the first time last night. We 1 tank 2 healed the fight.

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/6...=10158&e=10641

    The approach we took for Phase 1 was for our 2 ranged groups to eat 3 stacks each then the Melee group took the rest. If we can't transition to phase 2 before the damage on the melee is too high we don't have the dps for the boss (5-6 stacks tops).

    As healers we consume all of or most of our mana for that first phase. We use all of our major raid coooldowns as well except for maybe shammy totem. You have a disc priest so if the priest group goes first they can use Spirit Shell on their own group then use it on the melee when it's their turn. Have the warrior use rallying cry around the 3rd stack of the melee debuff. Save barrier for melee as well.

    The healers don't need to concern themselves with conserving mana. They can burn through all of it and use mana cooldowns on phase 2 and recover most of their mana in phase 3 when damage is light in preparation of phase 4.

    I just took a look at your priests logs. He seems to not use any of his lv 90 talents and doesn't use Spirit Shell.....at all.....ever.......WHY!? Spirit Shell is one of a Disc Priest's primary burst AOE healing spell and he isn't using it on a fight that has a lot of timed burst AOE damage. Ditto for not using his lv 90 AOE healing spell. All he is doing is casting Atonement. He can't be standing there casting Atonement all day and expect it to heal everyone up to full on that fight. He needs to use his other healing spells.

    Just dug a little deeper. He also isn't using Inner Focus or Archangel for increased throughput on his other healing spells. He is healing it like it's LFR.
    Last edited by lizon; 2013-08-08 at 07:35 PM.

  5. #5
    Try #13 and 15 paladin holy

    He need to use more CD, he only used Divine farvor once, 1 divine protection and thats its, where is avenging wrath?

    Something important i noticed and this help us a lot on this boss, DONT STACK if your raid have the Arcing Lightning debuff, also your raid is pretty much eating all the stuff from the ground, dont rush the last phase, make sure you have enough raid cd for that phase, down the boss to 27% and wait for the next shield to lust and burn that dog, this probably will left the boss with 19-20%hp, continue and kill him, make sure the melee are stacked to prevent the molten inferno, ideally you want to kill all the dog before the first fist smash, if the boss use fist smash and there is one dog alive, drop 1 devotion aura here, all the dogs are death!! now what? make sure if ANYBODY have the arcing lightning debuff, if the raid is clean, stack and start to rotate cd and dont drop all your raid cd at the same time.

    Also the mage and warrior dps is very low D: .

  6. #6
    Looks like the healers are the problem. We two healed it with a resto shaman (myself) and a disc priest at around 515 item level and were averaging ~110k hps over the course of the fight, there is no reason they should be as low as they are. Two healing makes phase 1 go quite a bit faster, we have all the ranged stacked at the start and take two stacks then we spread out when the spear is thrown, then the tanks + enhancement shaman eat the rest of the stacks. It's healing intensive doing it that way but it requires much less movement for everyone. Phase 2 and 3 offer reprieve for the healers, I usually blow Healing Tide shortly after the first spear goes out, then Ascendance shortly thereafter, with 1 tank and 2 healers phase 1 should be over before stacks become an issue. During the start of phase 4 healers shouldn't be afraid to use cooldowns, the healing when the dogs are up when the first face smash goes off is much more intensive than later face smashes towards the end of the fight.

    Healing Rain should be a much larger contributor to your shaman's overall healing. On your 7 minute attempt he used Unleashed Life only 3 times, it should be used just about on cooldown, and before every Healing Rain. Earth Shield up-time was 66%, should be near 100%. He was spec'd into Primal Elementalist but only used the fire elemental's empowerment buff, the 20% damage reduction and 10% bonus to healing from the earth elemental can make a huge difference in phase 1.

    On the 7 minute attempt your druid didn't use Tranq, and your ele shaman only used AG once. I'd recommend getting an addon such as Hermes that tracks raid cooldowns to make sure people are making the best use out of what they have, micromanaging raid cooldown should help a lot. After Wind Storm our balance druid always does HoTW + Tranq which saves the healers a ton of mana.
    Last edited by Barrun; 2013-08-09 at 12:11 AM.

  7. #7
    Pit Lord Odina's Avatar
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    Thank you all so much so far for the responces!

    Since we have a pallie tank solo tanking and he can pump out a crapton of healing and what I'm reading is we should probably clip a healer! However what healer would be better to clip between the disc priest and the resto shamie...

    The melee taking all the stacks after a 3 and 3 could work I also saw some of just 2 and 2 then melee but without an AMS or Smoke bomb for melee I think our team would be taking a MAJOR beating.

    Again I thank all of those posting so far and those that will post after I have read and then gone to WOL to look over everythign so far!


    As for my dps (the war) I know it's crappy Off set gear and no execute phase on the dogs till the very end on heroic makes a sub optimal geared SMF warrior a sad panda!

  8. #8
    First phase
    We have the melee group take the first burning cinder debuffs (about 3 stacks). We position all our ranged on the stairs to make sure the first spear drops there. As soon as the spear drops, 4 ranged group up and take 3-4 stacks, until the melee are clear of their debuff and can stack again. We only use two groups.

    This means the first spear lands on the stairs. It also means the spear won't land in the ranged group when they're supposed to be stacking. In fact, if you use 3 groups you could probably change groups in sync with the spear drops. Should make the first phase a bit less chaotic.

    Last phase
    Melee takes all cinder stacks, resetting it using Dam'ren's shields. Melee nukes Dam'ren and ranged nuke Ro'shak.

    We used 1 tank and 3 healers.

  9. #9
    The healer you drop should come down to which one is the better player. Something to consider when evaluating the shaman is that reducing the number of healers will boost their output proportionally larger than the other healers because of the nature of their mastery. The disc priest not using Spirit Shell once in the 7 minute attempt is a pretty big red flag, but the shaman rarely using Unleash Life is also a sign he might not be up to the task.

  10. #10
    Brewmaster Daedelus's Avatar
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    It's basically a healer fight - massive damage in P1 and massive damage in the final phase, so they need to be on top of their game and dps need to be making liberal use of their own defensive CDs plus healthstones.

    There is a reasonable dps requirement in that you need to get out of P1 before stacks get too high and you really want to avoid a second wind phase, so use dps CDs at the start of P1, but then save them for start of P2 (2 min CDs will be off CD before the end of P1 (unless you have insane dps), but you should save them)

    We have ranged take 5 stacks in P1 then split in to pairs, all well away from each other - it's like a buddy system so you can free each other if needed, but are well away from other people's spears.

    P2 - again make sure you can free people up but also make every effort to lose the lightning debuff. Burn to avoid second wind.

    P3 - aaaaand relax. Healers recover mana. Do as much damage as possible but don't use any CDs. Lose debuffs. Get boss to ~27% then as soon as he puts shields up, hero/lust/pots/CDs and burn him to as low as possible while shields are up - P4 doesn't start until shields are down and you can burn him to <10% here easily.

    P3 - kill all the low health adds, lose your debuffs then stack. You should have defensive CDs left here and at least one healthstone. Healers need to rotate CDs.

  11. #11
    High Overlord Berianther's Avatar
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    Try doing Phase 1 with only 2 groups. 1 melee and 1 ranged.
    Melee take first 3-4 stacks, then ranged take next 3-4, then melee stack again and take it until boss flies off.

  12. #12
    Grunt Slowdive's Avatar
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    In P4 we found that killing Ro'shak->Quet'zal->Dam'ren was easiest for us and took a bit of the load off our healers heading into the first fist smash.

  13. #13
    For progression I would not recommend 2 healing this even with a paladin tank since it leaves very little room for error and the dps check isnt that tight by any means. For phase 1 we found the best to be having 2 ranged groups on opposite sides taking 3 stacks and then melee rest until transition. We tried having all ranged in one pile for more stacks but it just became a clusterfuck with all abilities landing there.

    And for last phase: get rid of the lightning debuff before you stack or healers are going to cry.

  14. #14
    Pit Lord Odina's Avatar
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    Just wanted to say thank you to all for the contributions! Got the kill last night!

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