Sub PVE - unpopular?

[Ujio]

I've just recently got back to my rogue and well I have always raided as Sub. As far as the damage is concerned sims put it around the same ballpark as the other 2 specs. I'm looking around for discussions on the spec / tips / tricks / gearing in the usual places but there seems to be a lack of anything to do with the spec for PVE.

Any reason for this or is it just that unpopular?

[Deleted]

Positional requirements.

[kilj]

for the fact that you have to be behind the target... on some fights is just a bitch. Also who wants to play the new boring sub.... its nothing compared to the old sub that was actually fun.

[Wow]

Sub pve just has to many issues on top of having less dps than the other specs. 5.4 will help with target switching but nothing else was fixed.

[Verain]

Encounters say:
"Oh look I'm a giant warrior troll but for some reason I stop to cast in random directions during shadow dance, rotating my ass instantly up to 180 degrees while you lose globals autoattacking in your stupid puddle"

Spec says:
"Hi, I'm sub. I'm balanced lower than mutilate on Patchwerk, and I'm way fucking harder to run."

[-Raer-]

Encounters say:
"Oh look I'm a giant warrior troll but for some reason I stop to cast in random directions during shadow dance, rotating my ass instantly up to 180 degrees while you lose globals autoattacking in your stupid puddle"

This annoys me to no end, even in other specs and even on other classes. Whatever they did to make that happen, they need to revert it and make bosses target stuff without turning to face the special ranged dps behind him.

[Viradiance]

Positional requirements. Rampup. Inconsistent damage (all burst, little filler). Lower overall damage in perfect conditions. Higher difficulty.

[Squirl]

I'd advise you play Mut and snooze your way to the top of the meters.

[Deleted]

I'd advise you play Mut and snooze your way to the top of the meters.

Or you can play Combat and mash mindlessly your keyboard 'til your heart's content.

[Deleted]

If Sub is still "must be behind the target" come next expan.... Blizz really have some issues.

[D3athsting]

* Positional requirements
* High uptime on target required
* Poor sustained aoe
* No cleave
* Heavy gear scaling

[snookiee]

I miss 4.3 sub

[-Raer-]

I miss 4.3 sub

Me too, probably my favorite thing about Cataclysm was Sub in 4.3.

[Dropndestroyrr]

Should clarify that Sub 4.3 with Legendary Daggers was the best iteration of Subtlety in a looooooooooong time. Whether or not you played BS or Hemo spec.

[mistahwilshire]

Sub has a lot of issues but it's way way way more fun to play due to the other specs being insanely boring. They managed to become lamer than Arcane Mage is these days.

[Deleted]

Positional requirements. Rampup. Inconsistent damage (all burst, little filler). Lower overall damage in perfect conditions. Higher difficulty.

Thats just a list of reasons why i like sub.

I get more from performing above average than i do from performing above average constantly with combat or assass.


The fun is in the challenge, at least for me.

[Kael]

Thats just a list of reasons why i like sub.

I get more from performing above average than i do from performing above average constantly with combat or assass.

The problem is you really don't get more out of it (DPS-wise). Assassination without energy pooling or perfect attention to rupture (figure 1-3s downtime every 5CP cast because this "bad-average" rogue doesn't pool resources appropriately), which just keeps SnD and rupture rolling and uses envenom at 5 CP regardless of buffs or anticipation, is very likely to outdamage a "good" subtlety rogue in the same gear, even on bosses without absurd positional difficulties that hurt sub more than assassination (Durumu maze, for example).

There are many of us who enjoy challenge and liked 4.2/4.3 sub for that exact reason - but the risk needs reward to be worthwhile, and right now it's not there.

[Verain]

Agreed. Sub needs to have the highest patchwerk damage of any rogue spec. Hell, of any WoW spec. Otherwise it is a waste of thoughtcycles and will result in lower damage on any real fight- and that's assuming it's equal on a patchwerk. It's lower, so it always is bad.

[Wow]

Sadly t16 looks to be leaving sub massively behind both specs again and they've left hemo to back dmg ratio insanely terrible on top of it. Sure more dmg tuning could happen but we know that they won't bring it up enough even if they do buff it some more.

[Uselessrouge]

its like 50k dps wasted.

i play sub atm because i like it.. but dps is so bad.. in progress i will never go sub if it stays like that ^^