1. #1

    Boomkin Questions/Help

    Hello, My guild and I are currently doing 10 man ToT on Normal. We are a casual raiding guild. Currently we are having issues on getting past Horridon consistently and we feel in part that is due to one of our players, a boomkin. None of us are Boomy experts, and we've done what we can to help (ie. looking up proper rotations, haste breakpoints, etc.) but he's still not pulling the dps he should. I was wondering if there were any Boomkin experts out there, if they could help guide us to fixing what's broken. He pulls decent enough dps on other fights, mostly just Horridon we are having an issue is.

    While I don't believe the issue lies ONLY with this boomkin, I would like to try to help fix the problem before looking for a replacement. If anyone else sees anything else they would like to point out that might help, feel free. We are open to suggestions. Again, we are a casual raiding guild, and mostly friends, so we don't want to kick players unless absolutely necessary.

    ****I would like to link the logs, but I can't on this forum until I've posted a few times. Please look up Lokey-Drenden on wow-heroes and browse to his logs from there. I'll post the actual logs on here when I am allowed.

    Specifically the Boomkin's name is Lokey, and the fight we're having issues on is Horridon. We're looking for problems with rotaion/gear or anything else that might help him out, and any other general helpful advice is welcome if you feel the need.

    Thanks in advance,

    ~Pandatears

  2. #2
    Stood in the Fire
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    He camps his eclipses far too long, he only got 20% uptime on his Nature's Grace (A 15% spell casting buff everytime you enter a eclipse) which is really bad even for his gear. He needs to cycle through his eclipses faster and be more fluent in his gameplay if he want to keep up with the rest.

  3. #3
    Aye, your moonkin is basically not cycling his eclipses enough, you can see over a 6m fight he had 6 starfalls on your best attempt. Your moonkin went into lunar 3 times and solar 4 times, which is quite low - they could've had more starfalls but it's obvious from logs they sit on them for some reason. I would say as a point of improvement, ask them to focus more on getting through eclipses first, even if it means dropping other priorities, focusing on that movement from solar to lunar is crucial and a vital part of maintaining our dps, once they've got the hang of that - then focus on dot management.

    Tivook
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    EU - Draenor

  4. #4
    The posts above cover everything you'll need to know.

    For the player in question, there are a few basic things he/she must do:
    - Press Starsurge more often.
    - Only use the Eclipsed DOT while in that Eclipse SPECIFICALLY for 4+ targets.
    - Hardcast more often (Starfire, Wrath specifically).

    Some things the player can do to help with habits:
    - Sit on a training dummy for 5min straight. Play perfectly for the entire trial period. Do this 3 times a day whenever possible.

    - Self-assessment is more important than others reviewing your play. (If you're stuck, it's fine to ask others...but try to figure out the issue yourself -- You will get better faster, and you learn from your mistakes quicker as well.)

    - If you feel like 5min isnt enough, work your way into 10min trials. Absolutely drill the mechanics and concepts into muscle memory and learn what to expect. It may seem overkill, but I've personally spent my time on the MOP Beta learning the rotation by learning the basics, applying that to a rotation, and trying to play perfectly for 15min -- if I messed up, I had to start over. (That was overkill...)
    - Don't stress over the practice to the point of anger and frustration. If you need a break, don't practice for a while, but just mentally decompress and chill out.

    ---- Follow the basic spellcasting:
    -------- Keep up both DOTs as best as possible (for as much DPS as possible). If they learn something that gives them more DPS, add it to the priority list. (Best to ask and confirm this sort of thing, it'll typically be "DOT clipping" which is a very difficult concept to grasp -- even for some Top 1000 guild players)

    -------- Try to cycle Eclipse states as fast as possible by using Starsurge, Starfire, and Wrath accordingly. Starsurge always takes priority.

    -------- Use WOL or Recount to see your damage breakdown. [Starsurge >= Starfire > Moonfire >= Sunfire > Wrath >= Starfall > Other]


    This player seems to making the mistakes most players make when they simply don't understand how to play properly. It's pretty fine to make mistakes, and everyone learns from their mistakes. The very best players, simply put, do the basics flawlessly (or near-flawless). The more advanced stuff...you learn through practice. Learning the basics is the most important part of Balance DPS -- if you cannot get the simple things, you simply cannot do the tougher things.

    I'm not trying to be mean, sorry if I come off that way. I'm trying to be as blunt as possible, because while people just need a little nudge in the right direction...others need a shove. (I'm the same way with learning other specs.)

    Also.... /3am posting
    Last edited by Cyous; 2013-08-21 at 10:15 AM.

  5. #5
    Thanks all for your input, I will review what's been said and see if any of it will make sense to him. Sadly I only grasp a small portion of what's being said as I do not play a druid.

    A few stupid questions for you all as well:
    1. What's an acceptable to good uptime on nature's grace?
    2. I've read in previous forums about reaching a 2nd breakpoint, but so far his gear isnt' up to that. Is that something that will come with higher gear or should he be farming haste specific peices? Any suggestions with that? No one mentioned alot about his gear, so I'm guessing it looks ok or no one looked
    3. I haven't run into "Dot clipping". What is it? (nevermind, this was explained to me by a guildie)

    Please feel free to offer more insight if you have any!

    Thank you!

    ~Pandatears

    P.S. to Cyous: I thought your post has been the most helpful so far, not mean at all! Thank you for your expert opinion!
    Last edited by Pandatears; 2013-08-21 at 10:01 PM.

  6. #6
    Nature's Grace uptime is going to vary by fight and gear quite a bit. For instance, he doesn't have his legendary metagem, which tends to help out quite a lot with reducing nature's grace downtime.

    He shouldn't need to farm haste specific pieces, it comes with gear. Eventually you'll end up with so much crit that swapping to the 2nd haste breakpoint is quite simple and painless. It does currently look like it would be impossible for him to reforge/gem his gear to reach it. I end up with him at 8200 haste by the time he drops down to 5000 crit. This forum's rule of thumb is you want at least 5000 crit left over by the time you hit the second breakpoint, though I'm personally happier with 7-8k left over.

    Speaking of gear, he is currently 1.6% over the hit cap. He can reforge that down to pick up more crit. Use something like AskMrRobot or ReforgeLite to help.

    Edit: His talents are also slightly odd. Wild Charge probably isn't doing anything that Kitty Teleport wouldn't do better. And Renewal is downright our worst self-healing option. He probably should just pick up Nature's Swiftness and the macro to instantly cast Healing Touch, since that will become baseline in 5.4 anyway. Cenarion Ward is also rather good healing, provided you use it on cooldown and understand when spikes of damage are going to hit you (which, for most fights in ToT is easily predicted).
    Last edited by Torlarn; 2013-08-21 at 10:45 PM.

  7. #7
    Keyboard Turner Aktaion's Avatar
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    Cyous could u please explain this a lil more "Only use the Eclipsed DOT while in that Eclipse SPECIFICALLY for 4+ targets." fo if ur in eclipse u don't keep both up? or just the one in in the eclipse?or is at as you said just spread that ONE that ur in around but not both? i ask cuz im trying to get a bit more into my druid boomkin is the only reason why i lvled one

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Aktaion View Post
    Cyous could u please explain this a lil more "Only use the Eclipsed DOT while in that Eclipse SPECIFICALLY for 4+ targets." fo if ur in eclipse u don't keep both up? or just the one in in the eclipse?or is at as you said just spread that ONE that ur in around but not both? i ask cuz im trying to get a bit more into my druid boomkin is the only reason why i lvled one
    Sure, from my experience, I've seen that 4 active DOTs at any raiding level causes Shooting Stars to proc often enough without "wasting" GCDs. I typically answer a lot of threads about DOTing and offering advice on Multi-DOTing/SS-weaving; I believe using "4 active DOTs" is a great number to use as a teaching tool. It's a fairly simply way to divide your Eclipsed DOTs and non-Eclipsed DOTs. It's supposed to give yourself the best possible output without testing the player's skill. The idea is to keep NG uptimes very high while maintaining high damage output.

    1 targets = 2 max = 1|1 -- (Eclipsed DOT | non-Eclipsed DOT)
    2 targets = 4 max = 2|2 -- (easy enough so far?)
    3 targets = 6 max = 3|1 -- (keep your non-Eclipsed DOT on the primary target, such as Horridon or the "Possessed Boss" on Council of Elders)
    4 targets = 8 max = 4|0 -- (and that's the basics, easy right?)
    5 targets = 10 max = 5|0 -- (you should start considering Hurricane after this point)

    On a fight such as Horridon, different factors come into play. Specifically for Horridon, the boss takes increased damage shortly into the fight. The damage increase is significant enough to provide your non-Eclipsed DOT more strength than an Eclipsed DOT on a different target. In the case of Horridon, you'd want to keep both DOTs rolling on the boss after the first door is broken.

    When you start looking for math, you get a more precise and detailed answer, though it's usually an obvious choice after a bit of practice. And to keep it clear -- there is never a "right" and "wrong" way; there are only "better" and "worse" ways to handle this spec.
    Last edited by Cyous; 2013-08-22 at 07:56 AM.

  9. #9
    tell him to just dot every add that comes out, and try to use every SS proc in between dotting.

  10. #10
    The Patient
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    Quote Originally Posted by asharia View Post
    tell him to just dot every add that comes out, and try to use every SS proc in between dotting.
    Instead of cycling through random threads bumping your post counter, perhaps you could actually give constructive information

    Please give constructive information if you're going to post. Infracted.
    Last edited by Sunfyre; 2013-08-23 at 01:53 AM.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by narzhul View Post
    Instead of cycling through random threads bumping your post counter, perhaps you could actually give constructive information
    that's the whole fight, you don't need to make it more complicated

  12. #12
    Herald of the Titans FuxieDK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Torlarn View Post
    Eventually you'll end up with so much crit that swapping to the 2nd haste breakpoint is quite simple and painless.
    WHAT??

    I don't see 2nd haste break point, being remotely possible, until you are in full Heroic Thunderforged gear..
    I'm at iLevel 529 and I can only reach ~6650 haste, if I go full haste-reforge. 7800ish, if I re-gem too.. That's still FAR FROM the 10k break point..

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by FuxieDK View Post
    WHAT??

    I don't see 2nd haste break point, being remotely possible, until you are in full Heroic Thunderforged gear..
    I'm at iLevel 529 and I can only reach ~6650 haste, if I go full haste-reforge. 7800ish, if I re-gem too.. That's still FAR FROM the 10k break point..
    Plugging you into AskMrRobot I end up with:

    10433 Haste
    8367 Crit

  14. #14
    Herald of the Titans FuxieDK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Torlarn View Post
    Plugging you into AskMrRobot I end up with:

    10433 Haste
    8367 Crit
    How? I tried no later than yesterday (ReforgeLite), and only managed to reach 6617 (without changing gems)..

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by FuxieDK View Post
    How? I tried no later than yesterday (ReforgeLite), and only managed to reach 6617 (without changing gems)..
    You'd need to replace and reorganize all of your gems, as well as add the legendary socket to your weapon that currently lacks it.

  16. #16
    Herald of the Titans FuxieDK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Torlarn View Post
    You'd need to replace and reorganize all of your gems, as well as add the legendary socket to your weapon that currently lacks it.
    Legendary socket was for T14 (and crafted "Reborn") weapons. Unless it was stealth-changed recently, you can't use it any more.. --> http://www.wowhead.com/item=94904
    Last edited by FuxieDK; 2013-08-23 at 06:51 AM.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by FuxieDK View Post
    WHAT??

    I don't see 2nd haste break point, being remotely possible, until you are in full Heroic Thunderforged gear..
    I'm at iLevel 529 and I can only reach ~6650 haste, if I go full haste-reforge. 7800ish, if I re-gem too.. That's still FAR FROM the 10k break point..
    Regem for it. But it's meaningless until 10k Crit (who cares about single-target...?)

  18. #18
    Blademaster
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    Quote Originally Posted by FuxieDK View Post
    Legendary socket was for T14 (and crafted "Reborn") weapons. Unless it was stealth-changed recently, you can't use it any more.. --> http://www.wowhead.com/item=94904
    Eye of the Black Prince is useable on ToT weapons, which is what I'm assuming he was referring to.

  19. #19
    Herald of the Titans FuxieDK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lunarius View Post
    Eye of the Black Prince is useable on ToT weapons, which is what I'm assuming he was referring to.
    Eye and Crown is the same (former from vendor, latter from quest)..

    I'm not saying it's wrong, but I've never seen anyone with the socket on a weapon that drops in ToT, and I inspect a lot of people..
    Stupid secret knowledge.. :-/

  20. #20
    Blademaster
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    It's been useable since ToT launched, and I'm pretty sure it was mentioned in blue posts as 5.2 hit. You can check my armory in my sig if you don't believe me, lol.

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