View Poll Results: Gear Restriction - Yes or No?

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  • Restrict PvP Weapons and Tier to Certain Ratings

    2 9.52%
  • Restrict All Conquest PvP Gear to Certain Ratings

    6 28.57%
  • Restrict only PvP Enchants and Gems to Certain Ratings

    13 61.90%
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  1. #1
    The Patient arioc's Avatar
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    Buying PvP Gear with Conquest - Broken System?

    Its been a while since I posted here last, I quit the game in early Cataclysm and have recently picked it up again. Personally I think they've made an amazing turnaround from the horrible expansion that was Cataclysm, yet there are a few things that continuously grind my gears.

    I know this is a big generalization but almost everyone on 1600 MMR have almost full Tyrannical PvP gear. Now I'm not complaining that this makes PvP too hard for me, because quite frankly its not, the point I want to make is that PvP has lost its progression. A huge percentage of the PvP gear currently available can be acquired without having a specific rating. Now I want to draw a parallel to the system they had in WOTLK, every piece of gear (or maybe it was just the tier) required a specific arena rating. These all ranged from 1500 to 2200, there was always something to look forward to as you gained rating.

    Personally I think its wrong that anyone without PvP gear or arena experience can jump into arenas and just leech of free wins to get their Tyrannical weapon. It seems like Blizzard really has adopted the mindset of preschool in Sweden; that everyone is a winner no matter if you placed first or last. If we are speaking strictly gear wise nothing separates my 2000 rating shaman from the best rated shaman on the battlegroup.

    What I'm wonder is if people agree with me, make the PvP gear for honor available for everyone but at least restrict the Tyrannical weapons and tier gear to certain ratings, or is the current system better where everyone can get the best gear while only restricting certain meta gems and enchants to the "elite" players.?
    Last edited by arioc; 2013-08-19 at 04:23 PM.
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    Also, I love your short-temper. Did you know that people like you are the most fun to mess with? Not that I'm doing it. Yet.
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    Is that a like a charge within a charge? :P

  2. #2
    The Patient Sharde's Avatar
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    i like the free system in mop. pvp in wotlk and earlier had the massive advantage that the damage to health ratio was much harsher (or it felt that way). you could actually hurt players in not so good gear, making high rating pvp equipment a bonus and not a must. today you can only nibble on the massive healthpools without tyrannical weapons and massive pvp power.

    i may be the only one but i liked the pvp much more when you could 2shot pyro someone. even when it happend to you. the drawn out fights of today are wearing on me. and still people say they die to fast.

    but to get back to the main question:
    i would even want the pvp meta be free of rating req. making really cool transmog gear for high rating (not just recolours and only available in that season) would be much preferable imo. as much fun at it is to mop up badly geared players, arena should have an even playing field. so the "progression bonus" for high skilled players should not involve improved gear.

  3. #3
    None of the above.

    Gear should be free for all. Then and only then (try to imagine a world without op/fotm-classes) will the game be balanced.

    Skill would determine rating and gear would have nothing to do with it.

    I cant understand why people would want rating requirements on gear? So higher rated people could stomp lower
    rated people easier? they are already more skilled. They dont need the gear to beat them?

    Oh well... this discussion renews every month so i guess there is no point discussing it

  4. #4
    Scarab Lord Roose's Avatar
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    I fucking hate gear differences in pvp. So why exactly should the best players also have the best gear in this area? It should be as equal as possible.

    I want to remove pvp gear and make it purely cosmetic.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Roose View Post
    I fucking hate gear differences in pvp. So why exactly should the best players also have the best gear in this area? It should be as equal as possible.

    I want to remove pvp gear and make it purely cosmetic.
    Altho i agree with gear differences suck i dont want pvp gear to be removed. they could just implement the same model as guild wars 2.
    Pvp gear is free for all and you can modify it exactly the way you want.

    The only people who want gear differences are the ones who just barely make the rating cuts because they would like to feel special.
    People on the higher end of rating are already full tier and always match up against people of the same rating. There is no need for
    gear differences on those skill levels.

    TLDR; gear stat differences are for ignorant people

  6. #6
    The Patient arioc's Avatar
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    I just dont understand why they are making this half-assed attempt to restrict it, either you do it or you dont. I personally prefer the WOTLK but Id be fine with either as long as they could decide on which one it is.

    Quote Originally Posted by Roose View Post
    I fucking hate gear differences in pvp. So why exactly should the best players also have the best gear in this area? It should be as equal as possible.

    I want to remove pvp gear and make it purely cosmetic.
    What about gear differences in PvE, why should the best PvE players have the best gear? There is a certain thrill in beating players with better gear, it sets the bar even higher for players which I dont mind at all.
    Last edited by arioc; 2013-08-19 at 05:22 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sillistrar View Post
    Also, I love your short-temper. Did you know that people like you are the most fun to mess with? Not that I'm doing it. Yet.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lazoric View Post
    Interception...
    Is that a like a charge within a charge? :P

  7. #7
    It's already hard enough leveling up and getting gear caught up with the field since I came back to wow. Putting a rating on it will just make it feel like I could never catch up, cause once the high level folks get the rating, it's going to make it that much harder to get a high rating cause you will always have the disadvantage to the teams that already obtained the gear. Visual upgrades or better looking glowing armor of the same set or whatever too, but don't handicap the new folks / people that can't get right on the gear from the get go a disadvantage.

  8. #8
    The Patient arioc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Turismon View Post
    It's already hard enough leveling up and getting gear caught up with the field since I came back to wow. Putting a rating on it will just make it feel like I could never catch up, cause once the high level folks get the rating, it's going to make it that much harder to get a high rating cause you will always have the disadvantage to the teams that already obtained the gear. Visual upgrades or better looking glowing armor of the same set or whatever too, but don't handicap the new folks / people that can't get right on the gear from the get go a disadvantage.
    I dinged my shaman not long ago, it took me 1 day to fully gear him for PvP (all pieces tyrannical except trinket and shoulders). Also PvP is always about advantages and disadvantages unless you're facing a mirror comp.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sillistrar View Post
    Also, I love your short-temper. Did you know that people like you are the most fun to mess with? Not that I'm doing it. Yet.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lazoric View Post
    Interception...
    Is that a like a charge within a charge? :P

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by arioc View Post
    I dinged my shaman not long ago, it took me 1 day to fully gear him for PvP (all pieces tyrannical except trinket and shoulders). Also PvP is always about advantages and disadvantages unless you're facing a mirror comp.
    so who boosted you for all the conquest then? you sure as hell didnt do that on your own

  10. #10
    The Patient arioc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tsubodia View Post
    so who boosted you for all the conquest then? you sure as hell didnt do that on your own
    On around 1400-1500 mmr every fourth game is a free win (nobody enters the arena), so you pretty much just farm those until you get enough gear to start playing seriously.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sillistrar View Post
    Also, I love your short-temper. Did you know that people like you are the most fun to mess with? Not that I'm doing it. Yet.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lazoric View Post
    Interception...
    Is that a like a charge within a charge? :P

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by arioc View Post
    On around 1400-1500 mmr every fourth game is a free win (nobody enters the arena), so you pretty much just farm those until you get enough gear to start playing seriously.
    true. but considering you need an awefull lot of conquest for full tyran set you either sat for 18+ hrs or got boosted to constant wins. its not really representative of the speed of gearing. But thats not the point. As is is a much better system. the loot is available for all so any complaints of gear imbalances are instantly gone. Its SOOO much easier to balance classes when the gear level is the "same" across the board. not to mention having weapons on the rating table impacted those dps classes who relied on them (ie %weapon dmg + attacks) more than others creating an instant imbalance there

  12. #12
    Titan Synthaxx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tsubodia View Post
    so who boosted you for all the conquest then? you sure as hell didnt do that on your own
    I'd agree if he'd said 'honor gear', which is possible in a day (cap honour, cap valour, convert valour to honour, also do some BG's once all points are spent -- definitely possible to get an almost full set if you really push the amount of PVP you do), but definitely not conquest gear.

    Quote Originally Posted by arioc View Post
    What about gear differences in PvE, why should the best PvE players have the best gear? There is a certain thrill in beating players with better gear, it sets the bar even higher for players which I dont mind at all.
    Perhaps. However, that happens only rarely, and often only when there's a direct counter between the 2 classes (say a Warrior vs a Hunter - hunter with double disengage, smart timing on camo, binding shot, traps, etc). It's not a common occurrence at all. More often than not, it was a case that the person with lesser gear would be near enough globaled.

    You can't compare PVE to PVP in this manner either. PVE players need the better gear because the bosses, and trash, they fight get progressively more stronger. You could argue that in rated, PVP opponents get progressively stronger, but this isn't always the case. Player skill comes into that one, whereas with PVP, the boss is always guaranteed to hit for a set amount, use specific abilities, and so PVE players get geared to be able to effectively counter that.

    The boss has no skill level, it's a non-sentient entity. It doesn't think, it just does. It doesn't know how to fake cast. It doesn't know how to do anything other than use 1 of the 6-7 abilities it has and that it goes after whoever has the most threat (or whoever it's fixated on). Players on the other hand, aren't predictable. Not only are the players themselves unpredictable, but the players you'll face are unpredictable. You might face someone who is the most skilled player in their class in the world, you might face someone who doesn't know the difference between Warlocks and Mages.

    Gear accounted for too much. When your abilities could hit someone for over half of their health pool, you didn't need to be 'skilled'. When rogues could 1-shot ambush people because of massive gear differences, they didn't need to be skilled, just Stealth > Ambush > Vanish. Once the resi. changes were introduced, it made the playing field much more even. For example, although I couldn't do much other than effective CC, I went into PVP on my blue geared hunter, and managed to at least serve some purpose. Before that, people would see me, and without even needing to focus me properly, I'd be dead within seconds, no chance to react.

    Personally, I think that anything above honor gear should be mostly cosmetic, but perhaps provide an extra gem slot on some of the pieces -- a little like transmog pieces, but modified to attach an extra gem slot as well. No more basic stat. increases, just visual and a gem slot. This at least allows them some bonus in stats, but they've got almost exactly the same stats as someone who's only geared up to honour level. They still stand out thanks to the visual change, but they can no longer use a massive gear disparity to roll over everyone who's just got geared for PVP.
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  13. #13
    I liked the gated style of gearing way back when. It was exciting to hit 1800 and get your chest (or whatever it was at the time). The only real problem with that system was the total dependence on the weapon and it was gated at 2200. There were basically all the people at 220 with weapons that did massively more damage than you did and could keep you out of the 2200 bracket for long periods of play.

    I would like to see a rating requirement return, but only for armor. I also think it should be gated lower as the top armor piece is at 2k rating instead of 2200. It is decently easy to make 2k with any comp but it gets significantly harder after that. That gives the effect that the people who are sub 2k players have a carrot to work towards, the 2k plus players don't care because they all play above that anyway and are all in the same gear.

    I would also love to see them have a different set of armor for RBG and arena. Weapons and trinkets and off pieces would be the same for the whole pvp system but there would be arena and RBG armor sets that gave different set bonuses. Something that pertains to that style of PvP play but is specific to your class. For example, as a DK I think it would be cool if the 4 piece gave me double grip in arena but double mass grip in RBG. 2 Set is good for arena play but for RBG perhaps the 2 set gives you the runic power increase when you put out a snare instead of receive one. Stuff like that. Gives more gear progression on different paths that allows more gameplay.

  14. #14
    Imo gear should be similar to GW2, yet with a twist.

    For Instanced PvP, you'd be given a full set of gear for every spec available to you. You would still need to use your own gems and enchants in order to modify it as you will but the standard set is available for everyone to use so that you're not gimped trying to gear up late in the season, even with a catchup cap available to you, queuing into 1.7k teams at 1.2k (after trying to drop your team's rating at least somewhat) sucks and makes an already arduous task ever more frustrating.

    This gear will have an effective item level of 1 outside of instance PvP zones and dedicated World PvP zones such as WG and TB (As well as any others that exist). When taken outside of the designated zones the stats on all of the items will be reduced to 0 and all enchants and gems will go inactive.

    You can then buy the full versions of each of these items in the current manner in which you buy Conquest items now. This allows for the items to be used outside of the dedicated World PvP and Instanced PvP zones, should you wish to take the fight to a city or engage in world PvP in other zones. Conquest items will be equal in power to Heroic [Type]forged items so as to ensure that PvP gear is equally as powerful as PvE gear in World PvP and Instanced PvP.

    Previous Season/Honor items will automatically be upgraded to full Versions so that they can be used outside of the designated zones, but as per usual these items will be decreased in power compared to the PvE gear which would be 1 tier ahead by this point as it has been in every expansion.

    Either that or completely scrap any attempt to balance world PvP, as GW2 did with WvWvW, and just balance Instanced PvP with a dedicated PvP set that is only usable in Instanced/Dedicated PvP zones.
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  15. #15
    If it were up to me, not only would nothing be restricted, but there would be no gear in the first place. PvP is supposed to be about competition, and competition is at its best when everyone is on equal grounds. I will never understand the mentality of people who think higher rated players deserve better gear in PvP. A good player will win with skill, and giving them better gear on top of it is stupid. The game would be better if it focused on competition instead of reward.

  16. #16
    I am in favour of a pvp system that rewards winning and punishes losing. That would be either

    a)Give higher conquest cap the more succesful you are, while making gear relatively expensive
    b)Make gear aquirable after you reach a certain rating

    I am one of those players that need the carrot on the stick to play. On current patch after quickly getting BIS I stopped PVP.
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    The problem is warriors are not easy to kill like we were in cata and people are mad at that
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    Brian may answer differently, but I would say mages are hard to counter for average players but easy for great players.

  17. #17
    Pit Lord Malgru's Avatar
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    Remove gear progression in PvP completely. I am not PvPing so I can get points and buy gear and then spend the precious gold that I do have on gems and enchants every single season. Just make the PVP gear give you zero stats in PVE, and vice versa. I PVP to win. It's simple as that >_>

  18. #18
    Bloodsail Admiral Naoto's Avatar
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    I'd like gear to be the following:

    Honor gear is free for bg's only because although it's easy to get, it's still a pain in the arse plus playing a 10 vs 10 when 3 of the people are getting gear is a huge disadvantage plus people only want to do a casual bg now and then not spend hours farming for an entire set so it kinda puts them off, give them free gear for use in bg's because I'm sick and tired of seeing people in green gear all the fucking time.

    Arena gear is only achieved via arena and rbgs, aka get rid of the conq from bg shit and obviously elite gear for people getting to 2200 or imo it should be 2400.

    They also need to limit bg's to bg gear only aka downscale the arena gear inside a bg because again, being 20 ilvls below some people is another huge disadvantage and it further forces you to do arena/rbgs when though I personally detest both just to be able to compete.

    Simply put, honor gear inside bg and nothing else, pve gets downscaled and so does the arena/rbg gear so everyone has the same gear, it's the fairest way to go about bg's because we need to keep in mind bg's are supposed to be casual and this might encourage people to do them more knowing it's a level playing field AND you will surely see less bots as there will be nothing for a bot to grind/farm.

    On a personal note I don't need free gear and I'm more than capable of handling myself in male gear against full tyran but I'm talking about the bigger picture here and not what suits us as individuals, I want people to do bg's and enjoy them like I used to in TBC and imo this is the best way to make that happen.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Malgru View Post
    Remove gear progression in PvP completely. I am not PvPing so I can get points and buy gear and then spend the precious gold that I do have on gems and enchants every single season. Just make the PVP gear give you zero stats in PVE, and vice versa. I PVP to win. It's simple as that >_>
    I really need to find a game without gear progression and economy and demand it is made like World of Warcraft. Is Guild Wars all right?
    Quote Originally Posted by meathead View Post
    The problem is warriors are not easy to kill like we were in cata and people are mad at that
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostcrawler
    Brian may answer differently, but I would say mages are hard to counter for average players but easy for great players.

  20. #20
    Brewmaster Naztrak's Avatar
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    I want removed gear progression for PvP. I play to fight the best, not to achieve shiny stuff.

    But- since that format will keep players off leave it as it is. I PvP on regular basis so I it doesn't bother me anyways how people get the gear. As long as they put up stuff so I can actually queue into someone will most definitely help me more.
    PvE is a minigame // Spreading rows of DoTs and no love on this forum // WoT : Playing German and Soviet tanks: Tiger I, Tiger II, KV-2...

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