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  1. #501
    Quote Originally Posted by pichuca View Post
    Why wouldn't you use RF during BW?
    because all you cast is instnats at this point unless you have 2pc (i did old ptr testing and didnt matter cause after bw rf cd would come up now is way dif with just 4 sec) i wont use it and even then with 4 sec you cant cast that many AS to reduce the cd.

    while bw you cast instants, RF will affect just autoshots, RF after BW will allow you to cap focus faster into more dumping due to CS having a cast time and rapid fire help with that.

  2. #502
    Quote Originally Posted by Csnyder View Post
    great players learn to adapt and do great dps no matter what, bad players whine no matter what
    What a stupid statement. That only applies if everyone else in your raid team is sub par and not as 'great' as you are. All things being equal, hunters (for now) will still have lower dps than most other classes where the players have equal skills and gear.

  3. #503
    Hunter burst is too great, the balance of hunters in 5.4 seems very fair overall when compared to other classes. DPS/Healer teams were getting blown up without even a chance when a BM hunter/Other DPS are paired together, now at least non double DPS teams will have a chance at fighting back.

  4. #504
    So I've been playing around with FD and ShadowCraft for rogues both making a max gear character (T16 HCWF+8) the settings were the full set of buffs and debuffs pre-pot and combat pot, no tricks, stormlash or warrior banner and Single Target only.

    The results for a BM and SV hunter were(not counting MM because t16 set bonus is a bit wonky on FD):
    BM 352.5k dps
    SV 349.2k dps
    The results for all rogue specs were:
    Assasinaion 400.9k dps
    Combat 370.5k dps
    Subtlety 383.2k dps

    You do have to enable ptr changes on FD, but it's also interesting to see that if they didn't change anything we would be even further behind in maxed gear 342k for BM and 320k for SV. So I guess we do kind have to thank blizz..(and you cant do it in shadowcraft since you can't access ptr gear :l)
    I'm not sure how to link ShadowCraft sets but in all honesty its a lot faster to use than FD is (no offence) and you can find a max simmed gear set by going through each piece twice clicking which ever is on top and clicking auto reforge and re-gem once or twice.

    But yeah so the lowest rogue dps spec is about 20k above us and top rogue spec seems to be nearly 50k above. Also I'm no rogue expert so it could be that Assas and sub are totally unplayable but 20k damage difference at max gear is still a lot. I can imagine that mages/locks maybe even boomkins might be even further ahead( I don't know of any online based sim sites for these classes)
    Last edited by Meraned; 2013-08-29 at 11:09 AM. Reason: added Italic

  5. #505
    Quote Originally Posted by Meraned View Post
    So I've been playing around with FD and ShadowCraft for rogues both making a max gear character (T16 HCWF+8) the settings were the full set of buffs and debuffs pre-pot and combat pot, no tricks, stormlash or warrior banner and Single Target only.

    The results for a BM and SV hunter were(not counting MM because t16 set bonus is a bit wonky on FD):
    BM 352.5k dps
    SV 349.2k dps
    The results for all rogue specs were:
    Assasinaion 400.9k dps
    Combat 370.5k dps
    Subtlety 383.2k dps

    You do have to enable ptr changes on FD, but it's also interesting to see that if they didn't change anything we would be even further behind in maxed gear 342k for BM and 320k for SV. So I guess we do kind have to thank blizz..(and you cant do it in shadowcraft since you can't access ptr gear :l)
    I'm not sure how to link ShadowCraft sets but in all honesty its a lot faster to use than FD is (no offence) and you can find a max simmed gear set by going through each piece twice clicking which ever is on top and clicking auto reforge and re-gem once or twice.

    But yeah so the lowest rogue dps spec is about 20k above us and top rogue spec seems to be nearly 50k above. Also I'm no rogue expert so it could be that Assas and sub are totally unplayable but 20k damage difference at max gear is still a lot. I can imagine that mages/locks maybe even boomkins might be even further ahead( I don't know of any online based sim sites for these classes)
    Yeah, but rogues don't have traps. So technically that makes hunters equal to rogues, if not even a little bit better.

  6. #506
    Quote Originally Posted by Ohai View Post
    Yeah, but rogues don't have traps. So technically that makes hunters equal to rogues, if not even a little bit better.
    How silly of me to forget that

  7. #507
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ohai View Post
    Yeah, but rogues don't have traps. So technically that makes hunters equal to rogues, if not even a little bit better.
    Wait, does that means traps are worth like 20k-50k of dps? o_O I think we got ripped off lol

  8. #508
    Quote Originally Posted by threadz View Post
    Might aswell just find a new class you enjoy because that will never happen with hunters. Way too many people play the class that don't give a shit about dps or raid viability because it's an arguably low skill cap class that has the pretty pets to collect. Just because the top 5% of raiders don't stack hunters won't be enough.
    Lowest skill cap ? No.

  9. #509
    Quote Originally Posted by re1gn1te View Post
    Lowest skill cap ? No.
    He's speaking out of orifices best left to the imagination. Earlier in the thread he stated that he re-rolled to a lock after "playing a hunter for 4 years lol" (paraphrased). I've been playing a hunter for 8 years and can absolutely speak to the fact that the hunter is in fact NOT a low skill cap class. Just because a class is easy to learn with when you're starting out in WoW does not mean the damn class is a low skill spec. The fact that he re-rolled just shows that he's quite possibly at best.....nothing more than a FotMer. It's either that or he just couldn't hack it. There's no shame in admitting that the reverse bell curve that is being a hunter in WoW can wear down a person, even grind them into submission causing them the pain of re-rolling to another class. Hunters aren't for everyone, just those of us with the testicular fortitude to man up and deal with it.

  10. #510
    Quote Originally Posted by Ohai View Post
    Yeah, but rogues don't have traps. So technically that makes hunters equal to rogues, if not even a little bit better.
    Haha well said sir.

  11. #511
    It feels like Blizzard thought let's give a minor buff to hunters ie 3k so they stop complaining...

    Come on we're either far from the top or balanced but don't tell we were just 3k below the perfect balance otherwise we just didn't need this buff.

    Don't take me wrong I'll take any buff but they're really making fun of us with this change...

  12. #512
    Quote Originally Posted by Meraned View Post
    So I've been playing around with FD and ShadowCraft for rogues both making a max gear character (T16 HCWF+8) the settings were the full set of buffs and debuffs pre-pot and combat pot, no tricks, stormlash or warrior banner and Single Target only.

    The results for a BM and SV hunter were(not counting MM because t16 set bonus is a bit wonky on FD):
    BM 352.5k dps
    SV 349.2k dps
    The results for all rogue specs were:
    Assasinaion 400.9k dps
    Combat 370.5k dps
    Subtlety 383.2k dps

    You do have to enable ptr changes on FD, but it's also interesting to see that if they didn't change anything we would be even further behind in maxed gear 342k for BM and 320k for SV. So I guess we do kind have to thank blizz..(and you cant do it in shadowcraft since you can't access ptr gear :l)
    I'm not sure how to link ShadowCraft sets but in all honesty its a lot faster to use than FD is (no offence) and you can find a max simmed gear set by going through each piece twice clicking which ever is on top and clicking auto reforge and re-gem once or twice.

    But yeah so the lowest rogue dps spec is about 20k above us and top rogue spec seems to be nearly 50k above. Also I'm no rogue expert so it could be that Assas and sub are totally unplayable but 20k damage difference at max gear is still a lot. I can imagine that mages/locks maybe even boomkins might be even further ahead( I don't know of any online based sim sites for these classes)
    And you honestly believe that a ranged class should deal the same dps as the best melee dps ingame so that ranged pull even more ahead?

    Compare to other ranged speccs. Rogues are even overpowered compared to all other melees.

    And honestly, you compare two different tools. That's even worse than to compare simcraft results (which is already pretty dumb idea, since simcraft can't reflect raid performance and some speccs always sim somewhat higher/lower than their raid performance.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Trieste View Post
    It feels like Blizzard thought let's give a minor buff to hunters ie 3k so they stop complaining...
    Actually hunters performed very good in ptr testing. It's just whining for buffs which aren't justified.
    Last edited by Klatar; 2013-08-29 at 09:04 PM.

  13. #513
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klatar View Post
    And you honestly believe that a ranged class should deal the same dps as the best melee dps ingame so that ranged pull even more ahead?

    Compare to other ranged speccs. Rogues are even overpowered compared to all other melees.

    And honestly, you compare two different tools. That's even worse than to compare simcraft results (which is already pretty dumb idea, since simcraft can't reflect raid performance and some speccs always sim somewhat higher/lower than their raid performance.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Actually hunters performed very good in ptr testing. It's just whining for buffs which aren't justified.
    Testing that was done in 520 gear? Where Hunters are decent because they scale like shit with gear and all the buffs were so that Hunters are middle in SoO NORMAL mode gear(553?). Heroic is all that matters, Hunters will continue to scale like shit so we will never be good at Heroic level raiding.

  14. #514
    Quote Originally Posted by Klatar View Post
    Actually hunters performed very good in ptr testing. It's just whining for buffs which aren't justified.
    You didn't get my point.

    If Blizzard thinks we're fine, don't buff us. If we're not where we're supposed to be, give us a real buff but a 3k buff is just nothing. That won't change when you'll end up in the dps ranking.

    Regarding the ptr testing, not sure you can really conclude something...

  15. #515
    I've been wondering... The introduction of mastery was originally to give classes a "balancing knob" to turn, wasn't it? Why don't they ever turn that knob?

    They always seem to mess with everything else, and completely ignore mastery. Not that I think it would fix all the problems we have, but it would be nice to see if buffed so it was at least not such a weak secondary.

  16. #516
    The Patient Volbian's Avatar
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    Time to close thread. Hunters got buffs on PTR. Now open a new thread how theyre OP again in PVP so we can get nerfed in PVE, AGAIN.

  17. #517
    Quote Originally Posted by Volbian View Post
    Now open a new thread how theyre OP again in PVP so we can get nerfed in PVE, AGAIN.
    lol wait wat?

  18. #518
    The Patient Volbian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YUMP View Post
    lol wait wat?
    Beast Mastery
    Kill Command damage has been increased by 34%.
    Marksman
    Aimed Shot now deals 450% ranged weapon damage (up from 350%).
    Survival
    Explosive Shot damage has been increased by 27%.
    Talents
    Lynx Rush damage has been increased by 30%.

    It was sarcasm, PVPers love to complain about buffs. I'm sure with these buffs(above), they'll complain about something, because their bad at PVP.

  19. #519
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    Quote Originally Posted by Volbian View Post
    Beast Mastery
    Kill Command damage has been increased by 34%.
    Marksman
    Aimed Shot now deals 450% ranged weapon damage (up from 350%).
    Survival
    Explosive Shot damage has been increased by 27%.
    Talents
    Lynx Rush damage has been increased by 30%.

    It was sarcasm, PVPers love to complain about buffs. I'm sure with these buffs(above), they'll complain about something, because their bad at PVP.
    Sarcasm don't go well over the internet. : p And you shouldn't say only PvP:ers, from what I know it have been mostly PvE:ers that have complained, in good and bad. And if PvP complains, its duo that only BM have been the only good spec, while Survival and MM have been not so good (that is an issue in PvE as well). Might be about survivability that gets nerfed with the lose of Readiness, like Exhilaration getting much weaker. That is my 5 cents on at least.

    Though Im just a 1.7k rated PvP:er, so can't really say how Hunters peform in the top. : )

    (Though I wish Blizz seriously could make talents and abilities work different in PvP and PvE, would makes things much easier to balance.)

  20. #520
    Quote Originally Posted by Finick View Post
    I've been wondering... The introduction of mastery was originally to give classes a "balancing knob" to turn, wasn't it? Why don't they ever turn that knob?

    They always seem to mess with everything else, and completely ignore mastery. Not that I think it would fix all the problems we have, but it would be nice to see if buffed so it was at least not such a weak secondary.
    Yeam man, you hit the nail on the head for me. Exactly what I think when I see balancing/scaling issues.

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