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  1. #1

    Some multistrike trinket questions

    is the pet not proccing it intentional or just someone the devs looked over, have they said anything about hunter pets not being able to proc it?

  2. #2
    Herald of the Titans Tehterokkar's Avatar
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    It's the same as for Warlocks/UH DKs, pet's CAN'T proc it. Only the player. So it's very much shit for BM.

    I just don't know why they even bother with these kind of trinkets and make them completely useless for a few specs because they are too lazy to change it..

  3. #3
    The only thing that matters with procs is how many chances you have to proc it, not what percentage of your damage you personally are doing as opposed to your pet. I.e. a warlock with Grimoire of Sacrifice isn't going to proc it any less than one with Supremacy because your rotation doesn't change.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Magpai View Post
    The only thing that matters with procs is how many chances you have to proc it, not what percentage of your damage you personally are doing as opposed to your pet. I.e. a warlock with Grimoire of Sacrifice isn't going to proc it any less than one with Supremacy because your rotation doesn't change.
    Maybe if the damage of the proc wasn't based on the damage of the attack it procs off of...
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  5. #5
    It's pretty good for surv though right?
    Considering it drops much earlier in the instance as the ebon thingie I might pick it up once people who care about it have it.

  6. #6
    It shouldn't be very good for survival either, unless when it procs off explosive shot (or black arrow I guess?) it includes the damage from all the ticks in its calculation. Even glaive toss does its damage with 2 simultaneous hits rather than 1 big one, and barrage is obviously a swarm of smaller hits. I don't know how smart they made the trinket, but if they didn't account for abilities like that and just left it to proc off a single hit, only marksmanship should really get good value from it.

  7. #7
    Herald of the Titans Tehterokkar's Avatar
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    It's a flat % chance to proc off an attack. so more attacks = more procs. if 50% of your damage can't proc it(Hi BM), then the trinket isn't that good.

  8. #8
    According to Femaledwarf, Multystrike is the best for SV with the reverse Renataki and CD reduction being on par, with the cleave one being behind all of them.

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  9. #9
    i tho this trinkets were RPPM so the ammount of attacks you deal wont change the proc rate of them, off course you dont want to proc with a cobra shot as bm you want to proc with a KC but since is a pet attack it wont do it. so your best choice is glaive toss and even then dosnt seem any good because the total damage is Split in 2 hits instead of 1 same with barrage, idk all the trinkets seem garbage to me.

    i also still dont see those on use trinket they said were going to be the best ones. i hope they are not because then i will have to think about droping engineering because i wont be able to use my glove enchant.

  10. #10
    The multistrike trinket isn't RPPM, it's just a straight proc chance off every attack. The fact that it scales directly with the damage of the attack it procced off of means that it's fairly easy to math out, except that you have to exclude any attacks that don't proc it (i.e. pet attacks). I believe the last time I tested it that it could proc off of ticks as well as attacks but I haven't doublechecked recently.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Zeherah View Post
    The multistrike trinket isn't RPPM, it's just a straight proc chance off every attack. The fact that it scales directly with the damage of the attack it procced off of means that it's fairly easy to math out, except that you have to exclude any attacks that don't proc it (i.e. pet attacks). I believe the last time I tested it that it could proc off of ticks as well as attacks but I haven't doublechecked recently.
    I've tested it recently and it still seems to proc off DoT ticks, Murder of Crows, and obviously any other direct attacks. Even Explosive Trap seems to trigger it.

  12. #12
    Lets just use our old rppm trinkets? OH wait they nerfed those to make the new shitty trinkets look better. my bad...

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Slot View Post
    Lets just use our old rppm trinkets? OH wait they nerfed those to make the new shitty trinkets look better. my bad...
    new trinkets are garbage idk why they made them that garbage. dont like much RPPM but at least they were pretty good to get.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Perrito View Post
    new trinkets are garbage idk why they made them that garbage. dont like much RPPM but at least they were pretty good to get.
    This isn't the first time they have nerfed past trinkets to make newer ones worth wild.

  15. #15
    The Patient
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thursley View Post
    It shouldn't be very good for survival either, unless when it procs off explosive shot (or black arrow I guess?) it includes the damage from all the ticks in its calculation. Even glaive toss does its damage with 2 simultaneous hits rather than 1 big one, and barrage is obviously a swarm of smaller hits. I don't know how smart they made the trinket, but if they didn't account for abilities like that and just left it to proc off a single hit, only marksmanship should really get good value from it.
    Since it proccs fairly often it doesn't really matter what attacks it proccs off, as it will spread its damage off all of your damage during a whole combat. In the end it is a very simple predictable procc. The normal version has a 14.1 change to procc, dealing 33% of the damage. So it's damage should be 14.1*0.33=4.653% of the hunter's damage. As SV the hunter deals around 85% of the damage, so the procc should account for 3.85% of the total damage, if it is true that it proccs from every damage the hunter deals. For bm it should be around 2.5% of the total damage, being the hunter the source of 55% of the damage.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Thursley View Post
    It shouldn't be very good for survival either, unless when it procs off explosive shot (or black arrow I guess?) it includes the damage from all the ticks in its calculation. Even glaive toss does its damage with 2 simultaneous hits rather than 1 big one, and barrage is obviously a swarm of smaller hits. I don't know how smart they made the trinket, but if they didn't account for abilities like that and just left it to proc off a single hit, only marksmanship should really get good value from it.
    Whoops, I can't believe I completely missed this post. This is something I usually respond to... which I will do right now.

    It doesn't really matter if you do a lot of small attacks or very few big attacks. The smaller hits will proc more often since it has a flat percentage to proc and no internal cooldown or something like that. pichuca gave a detailed explanation but let me show you what I mean with an example.

    Hunter A does 100 attacks per minute for 100 damage per hit.
    Hunter B does 10 attacks per minute for 1000 damage per hit.
    For the sake of simplicity, let's assume the trinket has 10% chance to proc and does 1/3rd of the attack's damage.

    Hunter A will get 10 procs for 33 damage, roughly 330 damage gained from the trinket.
    Hunter B will get 1 proc for 330 damage, roughly 330 damage gained from the trinket.

    Long story short, it doesn't matter if you have few large hits or lots of very small hits. The damage gained from this trinket will be equal because the same percentage of procs will occur totaling in the same amount of damage gained. Of course luck will still play a big part in how effective this trinket will be. Either side can get extremely lucky and end up above the average. Unfortunately, that blade swings both ways and you can get unlucky as well.


    I wish I knew how to effectively sim out the cooldown reduction and the big agility trinkets. I've done a ton of testing on the multistrike trinket and it seems to be quite good for Survival. Unfortunately, I don't know how to measure it up against the other two trinkets.
    Last edited by Bovan; 2013-09-05 at 02:33 PM.

  17. #17
    Ah, okay. My mistake was assuming the trinket was on the RPPM system, which would mean the ability it chose to proc from would make a big difference, since unluckily 'wasting' limited procs on smaller hits would make it weak. But since it's outside RPPM and apparently can proc from just about everything all that matters is what fraction of your total damage is able to proc it (and I guess what your total damage is). Still annoying that pet damage doesn't proc it though, because that's a significant fraction of even non-BM DPS.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Thursley View Post
    Still annoying that pet damage doesn't proc it though, because that's a significant fraction of even non-BM DPS.
    Yup exactly, and that's why many people including myself automatically assumed this trinket along with the cleave one (which works the same) would be useless for Hunters. However after trying a few fights as Survival with the trinket the damage we gain from the trinket is actually quite significant.

    Unfortunately that's where my adventure ends. Like I mentioned in my previous post, I don't know where to begin if I want to figure out how much the other trinkets add. I'm dying to find out if this trinket is a viable option for us or not.

  19. #19
    Herald of the Titans Tehterokkar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bovan View Post
    ~snip~
    Doing many big hits is more prone to RNG. Lots of small hits smooth out and give better results(compare say, BrM Monk 2h vs. DW). Multi-strike trinket + SV 4pc = lots of procs so it won't be that RNG as there are a lot of small hits going on.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Tehterokkar View Post
    Doing many big hits is more prone to RNG. Lots of small hits smooth out and give better results(compare say, BrM Monk 2h vs. DW). Multi-strike trinket + SV 4pc = lots of procs so it won't be that RNG as there are a lot of small hits going on.
    Correct, but on average over a say 6 minute fight it should be quite equal. And if you are comparing Hunter specs even Marksmanship has a lot of small hits in the form of Wild Quiver and 15% ranged haste at all times. I don't think the difference between the two most extremes Survival and Marksmanship will be that far apart. But of course everything related to percentages is prone to RNG.

    If anything I think Beast Mastery would suffer the most due to the damage increase during Bestial Wrath along with it's 4 set bonus. But I highly doubt this trinket will be good for Beast Mastery Hunters anyway due to the pet not proccing it.

    One thing I didn't test yet is if it procs from Piercing Shots.
    Last edited by Bovan; 2013-09-05 at 03:51 PM.

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