Demon Hunter lore/spec concept thread

[Jtree]

Two sides, with opposing points of view, and neither one willing to budge. No, I’m not talking about Congress. It’s the Demon Hunter class debate that has been raging recently on the MMO-C forums. Some say there’s not enough distinction between them and warlocks. Others, such as myself, think there is great potential for a new, unique class to be added in the future. Here, I wish to share some ideas I’ve had: an outline of several potential storylines and possible specs for a future demon hunter hero class.


WARLOCKS VS. DEMONHUNTERS

I know not everyone sees it this way, but I firmly believe that the two classes are thematically far apart, and mechanically ought to play very differently than each other. The demon hunter is a melee combatant, and thus will play as much like a warlock as a hunter does a rogue, a ret paladin does a shadow priest, or a balance druid does feral.

In theme, the two classes are born from very different root purposes. Warlocks are ambitious, dark magicians who wield various wicked and destructive magics, some demonic but some not. They use these powers for their own gain, and fight when it’s for their own advancement.

Demon hunters have chosen to fight fire with fire. They steal the powers of demons to turn it against them. They are rooted in great sacrifice, giving up their homes and past lives to join an outcast order, to follow a path that could cost their sanity and lives before they’ve even completed their training. They fight to protect, and to avenge.

A new warlock starts small, but a new demon hunter is jumping into something huge and dangerous. As such, a new DH class ought to be a hero class, meaning a higher level and a unique area for its starting experience.



LORE: THE STORY OF THE CLASS

These are three possible approaches to creating a demon hunter hero class, coming at the class lore from different avenues to create different motifs for the playable DH.

THE DISCIPLES OF ILLIDAN

After securing his place in the Black Temple, Illidan began training of an army of demon hunters. Some were volunteers, others “conscripts”. Those that survived the training were set to defend the Temple against any assault.

Yet Illidan’s actions were not acceptable to all his followers. Altruis, one of the oldest of demon hunters, rejected his master’s increasing cruelty and departed. Other veteran demon hunters quietly voiced their doubts when Illidan prepared to fight the Naaru’s forces rather than the Burning Legion.

But when the assault came on the Temple, a force of champions slipped inside and killed Illidan. His forces broke and scattered, and Altruis gathered all the demon hunters he could, taking them into hiding. He took leadership and set about restoring the ideals of duty and sacrifice, eventually sending many of the young demon hunters back to their homelands to reconnect with their people and their purpose for fighting.

And he sent them to find allies and forge relationships with the great champions of Azeroth, so that when the Legion returned they would bring a much greater, more diverse force to fight.

Gives us a class model most closely tied to Illidan and Outland, telling the story of the aftermath of Illidan’s defeat, then inserting the player into the standard level progress.


THE FORGOTTEN PROTECTORS

During the War of the Ancients, Illidan trained a small cadre of elite warriors in the techniques of the Demon Hunter. These courageous champions fought to protect their world against the most devastating assault Azeroth ever faced.

But after the war and the Sundering, elf society splintered. The night elves turned to druidism, while those who clung to the arcane were exiled. Illidan was imprisoned for refusing to relinquish his powers, and his followers found themselves without a home or people.

These stalwart warriors lived in shadows, watching over their people and fighting dangers they never knew about. For every great war the night elves won over the past 10,000 years, a dozen secret campaigns were waged in the most remote reaches of Kalimdor, stopping dark forces before they could spread to threaten the world.

New recruits were rare in this long era of silent protection. Few sought out the demon hunters, and even fewer were strong enough to join them.

When Illidan was freed, only a handful chose to follow him again; most remained with their ancient duty.

But the world continues to change, and the demon hunters now have many peoples seeking to follow their path. Those who were outcasts are now the very ones the world will call on to lead the new war against the Legion.

Ties the new DH class and faction more closely to night elves, possibly giving new NE story along the way. Best way to tie the familiar DH design to the immediate present in WoW.


THE NEW SCHOOL

After Illidan’s defeat, there was great interest in the powers he and his followers had used. Warlocks, being the most fel inclined, quickly adopted the concept of Metamorphosis. But other elements took a deeper interest.

The Scryers, having seen the power their blood elf brethren were training in, sought to understand it more fully. As the Naaru had pushed them into partnership with the Aldor, this new knowledge was shared across the Shattered Sun Offensive, and the research became known among the peoples of Shattrath.

For some it was an academic pursuit, but others sought to adapt the power and merge it with their own. In his ambition, Illidan had lost control to his powers, and twisted demon hunters and their training into the image of his own madness. The wisdom of the Scryers and discipline of the Aldor offered a new, better way to wield fel power, coupling it with arcane and holy into a potent weapon.

This new generation of demon hunters opened their training to all allied races. The next time the Legion threatens their worlds, there will be a mighty army prepared to face it.

This is just one of countless possible ideas. A story on a brand new faction of demon hunters is the best way to springboard off old lore into a new class that has updated, expanded themes.




SPECS: THE WHAT AND THE HOW

This is not supposed to be a six-spec class idea. These are various potential specs I’ve mused on, some of them tied to the stories above. They could be refined or mashed-up to make the needed number of specs. These are rough concepts, so please don’t say that these general outlines are just a copy of some existing class.


IMMOLATION - melee/tank

These demon hunters wield the most basic and destructive of demonic powers - fire. Flame ignites their weapons and pours off their skin, incinerating everything nearby. They attack relentlessly, building more and more heat as they cut apart and burn away their enemies.

Most basic DH idea, and potentially the most visually striking. Many abilities could be taken from Illidan: Flame Crash, Agonizing Flames, Flames of Azzinoth. I’m imagining them wielding orange flame, though most DH specs ought to have the same blue flame that Illidan had in Black Temple.


RETALIATION - melee or tank

A martial expert and a master spellbreaker. This DH fights reactively, turning his enemies’ assaults back against them. A charging warrior will find himself thrown to the ground, while a mage must watch as his frostbolt is caught and hurled back. The DH can passively absorb some attacks, and has active tools to try to prepare for incoming assaults. Or they can put a “focused” debuff on a single enemy, increasing their damage against it and reducing its effectiveness against others, though the DH is likewise less effective against other enemies.

Could be weak as DPS in PvE group content, but awesome for soloing and PvP.


BULWARK - tank

The most bold and resilient demon hunters are found at the center of the battlefield, taking the fight directly to the biggest, most terrifying foes. They combine fast reflexes, magic armors, and an incredible pain tolerance to withstand assaults that would break most others. They focus on enhancing their magic armor to absorb damage, and willing their health higher so they can continue fighting.

Precedent: Illidan tanked Mannoroth in Well of Eternity. Active mitigation is focused on high Effective Health. Play could be reminiscent of Wrath-era Frost DK dual-wield tanking: very hardy and plenty of splash damage. Active mitigation focuses on maintaining armor buffs, damage absorbs, and +healing buffs.


DARKSTALKER - melee

Stealthy, cunning, and deadly, this demon hunter cloaks himself in shadows, striking at foes with swift accuracy. He sows confusion and distraction among his enemies. He has mastered the darkness within himself, and is capable of drawing out his enemies’ inner darkness and turning it against them.

See Sindweller . Stealth makes it somewhat rogish, openers and mechanics must give a strong differentiation. Has an Inner Demons type ability, probably strong cleave abilities.


ILLIDARI SUMMONER - melee with guardians

Illidan won over an army of demons by offering them a source of magic power other than the Burning Legion’s fel energy. These demons remain, ready to answer the call of any demon hunter with the strength to summon them and a gift of power to sate them. Swift small attacks are intended to specifically drain magic from the target, building up power to summon demons appropriate for any purpose.

Would have to tie in to an illidari-based lore. Concept lore rooted in the Warlock green fire quest: http://wowpedia.org/Quest:Infiltrati...k_Temple#Notes

The summoned demons behave more like guardians than pets, remaining for a set duration. Demons are summoned by role, and several different species can answer each call.

Harassers: small melee, cheap to summon, long duration allows the buildup of large groups. Packs of imps, fel stalkers, darkhounds.
Ranged: Attacks from afar, doesn’t like being targeted. Observer, gan’arg.
Ambusher: Stealth attacker. Satyr, succubus.
Tank: High health, great threat, will peel enemies who are overwhelming the DH. Voidwalker, fiend, mo’arg.
Brutal: Vicious melee combatants. Fel guard, wrath guard, fel beast.
AoE: Target an area and a demon will come to attack everything immediately around it. Infernal (hellfire), Shivara (bladestorm), Doomguard (shadowbolt volley).

Resource is mana, equal to other melee mana users. However, this DH has low or no mana baseline; it fades out of combat. Standard attacks are free, and rapidly generate mana to use for expensive summons.



FELSTRIKER - ranged

The greatest demon lords keep themselves surrounded in battle by guards and minions. Slaying them can disrupt demon forces and bring swift victory. These demon hunters take up ranged weapons imbued with fel power to target the leaders, without having to fight through their protectors. Yet they are still skilled at melee combat as well, wrapping their fists with raw fire and arcane magic to strike powerful blows.

Ranged DPS with several “unarmed” melee abilities. Melee AP derived from ranged weapon.


MISCELLANY:

TALENTS:

Like other classes, I would expect rows of mobility talents, survival cooldowns, and damage enhancements. The level 90 row could be major damage abilities, lifted from Illidan. Spells like Flames of Azzinoth, Shadowcrash, or Flame Burst could appear here. Even Metamorphosis could be a talent.


RACES:

The demon hunters we’ve seen in game have all been night and blood elves, but the lore says that any race can pursue the training if the can find someone to teach them. Depending on when the new DH class is supposed to begin, it could be limited to the elves (Illidari era), or open to everyone.


ARMOR AND WEAPONS:

Demon hunters rely on speed to get close to their enemies, attacking wildly at very close quarters. They will wear agility leather, and are able to wield all 1-hand weapon types, and potentially 2-hand agility and ranged weapons.

If an “evolved” DH, they could potentially step up to mail, as relying on heavier armor instead of fel magic is less likely to corrupt your soul.

What about warglaives?

The glaives are an iconic element of the class, and the DH will have a good pair after completing the starting story. But the weapons themselves do not define the DH. Rather, the demon hunter focuses his power through his weapons, freeing him to use the best weapon available. Glaives will, of course be transmoggable for any who want to retain the look.

Glaives in game will continue to be classified as swords.


SHOULD DEMON HUNTERS BE ADDED?

Demon hunters have a natural “in” via an expansion focused on the Burning Legion, something many players believe is on the horizon. The class would have many ways to weave itself into the expansion storyline, much like death knights did in Wrath. No other proposed class appears to have such a strong connection to existing overarching themes like the Legion.

DHs would likely be a leather dual-wield melee class. This is already a crowded area in role and loot tables, but Blizzard has already shown they are okay with narrow loot usage (Int plate, ranged weapons, Agi daggers), and broadly shared gear (Agi leather, Str plate). Furthermore, each item on a boss loot list has a % chance to drop; Agi leather could have an increased chance to represent the potential population of the armor type.

I feel we’re at a point of class and spec saturation where more additions aren’t going to make things any harder in forming raid groups. A “balanced” 10-man group now excludes one class, and a 25-man leaves out one-fifth of all specs. A raid leader’s decision isn’t going to be any more difficult if he has to choose between a warrior and a DH for the last DPS slot, rather than choosing between two warriors.

For PvE and PvP balance, this is a never ending work on Blizzards part. As long as they keep adding new levels, new abilities, and new gear, they must keep analyzing and adjusting. Adding more classes and specs into the mix would only be a moderate increase in that workload.

Does WoW need a demon hunter class? I believe this game doesn’t need any new classes or specs. It could carry forward with 11 classes and 34 specs for the remainder of its run. That already gives players a broad spectrum of options.

But it could be a fun addition to the game. A new class is an opportunity to introduce new mechanics, new lore, and new adventures that will enrich the experience for WoW players. On these merits, the demon hunter has a lot to offer.


So what would you like to see in a DH class? Where could they come from, how could they fight, and what would you love for them to do?

[Skorpionss]

I love it and hope for it to happen, don't care which of the described ways they choose to add them but I need them in my veins.

[Talen]

Two sides, with opposing points of view, and neither one willing to budge. No, I’m not talking about Congress. It’s the Demon Hunter class debate that has been raging recently on the MMO-C forums. Some say there’s not enough distinction between them and warlocks. Others, such as myself, think there is great potential for a new, unique class to be added in the future.

You missed the point.

Yes...the DH could be developed as a new class fairly easily.
Right now...the Warlock has a DHs looks, moves, theme. If you wanted to, you could take a warlock dress him up as a DH, send him into combat and the big difference would be the damage each would do - the warlock would do a lot less than a full blown fully viable DH, no matter how it was implemented. They'd use the same moves, have the same look. Both would melee, both would cast spells, both would turn into a demon.

Right now, you can take the Warlock, separate out the GoDH system into a full blown 4th spec and give that spec the viability that is the major difference between Warlocks - right now - and existing in-game, inlore Demon Hunters. A lot of the work for that has already been done. And you could even keep the glyph as a DPS option for Demonologists.

But yes - in the future, the DH could easily be developed into a new class with an identity totally separate from that of Warlocks. What it would lose in such a situation, would be any connection to the existing class. Your write up essentially recognises that and essentially separates them from the existing class. And given that...why would you assign them the name Demon Hunter, given the in game look and limited lore we have?

And it may be that Blizzard will start differentiating Warlocks from DHs so that there actually is a difference. But...as things stand? The DH exists in game as a Warlock in everything bar name and viability. Its a fun option available to Warlocks who want to do so....but its not a role thats meant to be serious.

DHs would potentially be better developed in lore as a standalone class but they'd require a lot of work to ensure there was a clear, meningful distinction between them...and that would likely mean bearing little if any resemblnce to the existing DHs.

They'd get different lore and be easier to develop as a 4th spec

EJL

[OzoAndIndi]

Nice write up for it. Personally I'd still like to see things like Demon Hunter and Dark Ranger end up as new specs for suitable existing classes that are kind of in need of something fresh and new anyhow.

[Deleted]

I would play this class! I love the whole lore around Illidan, and to tie this in with a class would be great. I hope you get your ideas put in the game! Great thoughts!

[Deleted]

Restricting the DH to only elf races would causer a major uproar. So rather to all races. Except for Draenei, Orcs and Tauren who wouldn't do it. Yes I know we have orc warlocks.

The Dark ranger could work as a fourth hunter spec but frankly I could only see the DH to be one for Rogues.
Another possible way is to combine the 3 glaive using classes into one to create the ultimate Azerothian warrior. The dual wielder(Demon Hunter) for pure melee DPS, the one glaive user(Shadow Hunter) for a (mostly) caster and the glaive + shield combo(Spellbreaker) for tanking and support.

[Drilnos]

In theme, the two classes are born from very different root purposes. Warlocks are ambitious, dark magicians who wield various wicked and destructive magics, some demonic but some not. They use these powers for their own gain, and fight when it’s for their own advancement.

Demon hunters have chosen to fight fire with fire. They steal the powers of demons to turn it against them. They are rooted in great sacrifice, giving up their homes and past lives to join an outcast order, to follow a path that could cost their sanity and lives before they’ve even completed their training. They fight to protect, and to avenge.

Warlocks are player characters. Player characters are heroes of their respective factions in lore. Without exception.

As for the second paragraph, it applies to warlocks just as well. They fight fire with fire. They force demons and demonic powers into service against their former masters. They are all outcasts, forced to convene in basements and alleys. They are in constant danger of succumbing to demonic influence and turning evil. And they fight, again, for the same reasons any player character fights.

Even without that, class lore is not monolithic. All Forsaken priests are supposed to be specced into shadow. There are three distinct orders of Light-wielders who all approached it from different angles, but for gameplay purposes they're all paladins. Night elf mages are all Highborne exiles. Troll druids get their forms from the Loa. And so on. So why can't night elf warlocks have the demon hunter angle?

[Jtree]

DHs would potentially be better developed in lore as a standalone class but they'd require a lot of work to ensure there was a clear, meningful distinction between them...and that would likely mean bearing little if any resemblnce to the existing DHs.

They'd get different lore and be easier to develop as a 4th spec

I've laid out my visions for where a DH could come from, and overviews of how it would work. I feel that Blizzard would make it its own unique thing, much as they did with DKs and monks, without losing the overall theme of the class. And since all we have right now is a general theme, there's a whole lot of room for it to work.

This thread is about what that DH class could be. Any ideas in that regard?