1. #1

    [Suggestion] 3/5 Man Dungeons, Challenge Mode the new Heroic

    TL;DR: Make 3 man versions of dungeons where players heal from damage, 5 man versions equivalent to current heroic difficulty, and 5 man heroics equivalent to Challenge Mode diffifculty; Also, make grouping with people on your server give better rewards.

    Hey, i was thinking on Blizzard talking about their new unannounced feature in Mop, then I started thinking about the features already introduced this X-Pac, that can be that can still be greatly expanded. Currently, Challenge Modes are underused. Though I'm sure some people have different experiences, I very rarely see anyone on my server making groups, and when we do, they fall apart before the first boss. The thing is, it is a very good concept, just that Blizzard failed in properly rewarding the effort in running one (Transmog gear for getting gold in everything is attractive, but will only be attempted by the elite; their isn't enough rewards for the effort it takes to WORK TOWARDS the achievement)

    Then I was thinking about scenarios, and how they have become much more popular following the increased rewards/chance at an epic (Before this, queues were longer and I very rarely got grouped with someone who did competitive dps).

    Following the good read I had from the South Korean thread (http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...ht=south+korea), I was quickly reminded about the sad state of the WoW community. As many know, a large reason for this has been the introduction of LFG and LFR, which removed the need to remember anyone else from your server (remember the days of adding really good and friendly players on your friends list to run the daily dungeon with tomorrow?).

    Finally it hit me. Some players like easy gameplay. Some players like hard gameplay. Some people like grouping with their friends. Some people like grouping with randoms. All people like being rewarded. That is when I came up with this idea. I will explain how each level of difficulty works, using rewards and ilvls based on current MoP dungeons and raids.

    3 Man Dungeons Very Similar to Scenarios. These have no Ilvl requirement, and can be run be someone immediately turning 90. All players now heal for a certain percentage of their damage done (30/40, whatever works). This, coupled with a 30% Damage and Health Reduction by all mobs (35%hp for bosses), and players own self healing moves, shouldn't make staying alive all to hard. The gear it drops is 5 ilvls below 5 man difficulty.
    Ex. Scholomance-Darkmaster Gandling. 9,590,750hp, Incinerate Deals 24,500 dmg. His 463 Ilvl loot table will be brought down to 458. All bosses in 3 man dungeons give 25 Justice Points. Running one gives 25 valor points when queued for with Ifg.

    5 Man Normal Remain similar to current style. Only difference is the first of the day gives only 60 valor points. All others give 35.
    Ex. Scholomance-Darkmaster Gandling. 14,755,000 hp, Incinerate Deals 35,000 dmg. 463 ilvl, 35 Justice points.

    5 Man Heroic Essentially Challenge Modes without the ilvl reduction. They can now be queued for with Ifg, but require a ilvl of 463 (458 when running a server group).
    Ex. Scholomance-Darkmaster Gandling. 28,350,000 hp, Incinerate Deals 120,000 dmg. All Heroic bosses drop blue gear with a ilvl of 476, and 45 Justice points. Running a man heroic with Ifg gives 80 valor points for first of the day., all others give 60.

    Now, onto Server Groups. Essentially, this is when you group 3/3 with people from your server for scenarios/3 man dungeons, or 3/5 for 5 normal/heroic. You are give increased rewards across the table.
    3 man dungeons and scenarios give 100% more valor points when in a server group (so 50 for 3 man dungeons). However, this valor bonus only works once. The increase to Justice points (35 per boss), last for 3 man dungeons regardless.

    5 man normals and heroics give 50% more valor and justice points when in a server group, so first Normal gives 90 valor, the rest 55, while first Heroic gives 120 Valor, with the rest 80 (so it doesn't get too outta hand). Bosses 55 and 70 Justice points in normal/heroic respectively.
    Timed Runs and their transmog rewards still exists, but only for heroics in a server group (obviously you would want to go 5/5, but you COULD go 3/5 if you wanted to).

    So what do you guys think? Shouldn't be too hard to implement with the technology Blizzard has in scaling ilvls, so it is all possible.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-14 at 07:41 PM ----------

    No comments? Should I just give up?

  2. #2
    The Lightbringer judgementofantonidas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by babo7000 View Post
    TL;DR: Make 3 man versions of dungeons where players heal from damage, 5 man versions equivalent to current heroic difficulty, and 5 man heroics equivalent to Challenge Mode diffifculty; Also, make grouping with people on your server give better rewards.

    Hey, i was thinking on Blizzard talking about their new unannounced feature in Mop, then I started thinking about the features already introduced this X-Pac, that can be that can still be greatly expanded. Currently, Challenge Modes are underused. Though I'm sure some people have different experiences, I very rarely see anyone on my server making groups, and when we do, they fall apart before the first boss. The thing is, it is a very good concept, just that Blizzard failed in properly rewarding the effort in running one (Transmog gear for getting gold in everything is attractive, but will only be attempted by the elite; their isn't enough rewards for the effort it takes to WORK TOWARDS the achievement)

    Then I was thinking about scenarios, and how they have become much more popular following the increased rewards/chance at an epic (Before this, queues were longer and I very rarely got grouped with someone who did competitive dps).

    Following the good read I had from the South Korean thread (http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...ht=south+korea), I was quickly reminded about the sad state of the WoW community. As many know, a large reason for this has been the introduction of LFG and LFR, which removed the need to remember anyone else from your server (remember the days of adding really good and friendly players on your friends list to run the daily dungeon with tomorrow?).

    Finally it hit me. Some players like easy gameplay. Some players like hard gameplay. Some people like grouping with their friends. Some people like grouping with randoms. All people like being rewarded. That is when I came up with this idea. I will explain how each level of difficulty works, using rewards and ilvls based on current MoP dungeons and raids.

    3 Man Dungeons Very Similar to Scenarios. These have no Ilvl requirement, and can be run be someone immediately turning 90. All players now heal for a certain percentage of their damage done (30/40, whatever works). This, coupled with a 30% Damage and Health Reduction by all mobs (35%hp for bosses), and players own self healing moves, shouldn't make staying alive all to hard. The gear it drops is 5 ilvls below 5 man difficulty.
    Ex. Scholomance-Darkmaster Gandling. 9,590,750hp, Incinerate Deals 24,500 dmg. His 463 Ilvl loot table will be brought down to 458. All bosses in 3 man dungeons give 25 Justice Points. Running one gives 25 valor points when queued for with Ifg.

    5 Man Normal Remain similar to current style. Only difference is the first of the day gives only 60 valor points. All others give 35.
    Ex. Scholomance-Darkmaster Gandling. 14,755,000 hp, Incinerate Deals 35,000 dmg. 463 ilvl, 35 Justice points.

    5 Man Heroic Essentially Challenge Modes without the ilvl reduction. They can now be queued for with Ifg, but require a ilvl of 463 (458 when running a server group).
    Ex. Scholomance-Darkmaster Gandling. 28,350,000 hp, Incinerate Deals 120,000 dmg. All Heroic bosses drop blue gear with a ilvl of 476, and 45 Justice points. Running a man heroic with Ifg gives 80 valor points for first of the day., all others give 60.

    Now, onto Server Groups. Essentially, this is when you group 3/3 with people from your server for scenarios/3 man dungeons, or 3/5 for 5 normal/heroic. You are give increased rewards across the table.
    3 man dungeons and scenarios give 100% more valor points when in a server group (so 50 for 3 man dungeons). However, this valor bonus only works once. The increase to Justice points (35 per boss), last for 3 man dungeons regardless.

    5 man normals and heroics give 50% more valor and justice points when in a server group, so first Normal gives 90 valor, the rest 55, while first Heroic gives 120 Valor, with the rest 80 (so it doesn't get too outta hand). Bosses 55 and 70 Justice points in normal/heroic respectively.
    Timed Runs and their transmog rewards still exists, but only for heroics in a server group (obviously you would want to go 5/5, but you COULD go 3/5 if you wanted to).

    So what do you guys think? Shouldn't be too hard to implement with the technology Blizzard has in scaling ilvls, so it is all possible.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-14 at 07:41 PM ----------

    No comments? Should I just give up?
    I agree that a shiney transmog is no reward whatsoever for completing a challenge mode.







    Lawful good does not always mean Lawful nice

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by judgementofantonidas View Post
    I agree that a shiney transmog is no reward whatsoever for completing a challenge mode.
    Meh not necesarilly. Some people are really compelled to have unique gear/mounts, and are willing to do whatever it takes to get them. Im just sqying that there needs to be more rewards you get on the way to doing so.

  4. #4
    Herald of the Titans SL1200's Avatar
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    Every time i start to feel that Ghostcrawler is not good at his job, all i have to do is come look for a post like this one to see that he's not as bad as i thought.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Spinachsandwich View Post
    Every time i start to feel that Ghostcrawler is not good at his job, all i have to do is come look for a post like this one to see that he's not as bad as i thought.
    hahahhah well played
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  6. #6
    Elemental Lord Arbs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klog View Post
    hahahhah well played
    well played indeed
    I'm neither Pro or Anti Flying, I just have a different opinion on the matter.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Spinachsandwich View Post
    Every time i start to feel that Ghostcrawler is not good at his job, all i have to do is come look for a post like this one to see that he's not as bad as i thought.
    Lol.

    But any reason as to why this fails? I thought it all seemed pretty good (tho high when I decided to post), anything in particular that screams fail?

  8. #8
    Moderator MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by judgementofantonidas View Post
    I agree that a shiney transmog is no reward whatsoever for completing a challenge mode.
    Challenge modes should be done because they exist. They're for ego, not for gear.

    Putting them into the gear path just makes them mandatory and eventually nerfed.

    Challenge modes is something they got pretty much exactly right.

    @babo: It's an interesting idea I guess but it's such a radical change from what they have now it amounts to a total redesign for no real good reason that I can see. It suffers from the same problem as antonidas. You've now made these extremely difficult dungeons part of the gearing path which means most people won't have the skills to do them and they end up nerfed. We've been there in the last expansion and it didn't go well. People wanting everything to be much more difficult are a substantial minority and ideas that put really difficult stuff in as an obstacle to gearing simply won't work.
    Last edited by MoanaLisa; 2013-02-15 at 12:52 AM.
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  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Eschaton View Post
    Challenge modes should be done because they exist. They're for ego, not for gear.

    Putting them into the gear path just makes them mandatory and eventually nerfed.

    Challenge modes is something they got pretty much exactly right.

    @babo: It's an interesting idea I guess but it's such a radical change from what they have now it amounts to a total redesign for no real good reason that I can see. It suffers from the same problem as antonidas. You've now made these extremely difficult dungeons part of the gearing path which means most people won't have the skills to do them and they end up nerfed. We've been there in the last expansion and it didn't go well. People wanting everything to be much more difficult are a substantial minority and ideas that put really difficult stuff in as an obstacle to gearing simply won't work.
    Well, Challenge Mode in this idea would simply be an alternative to lfr, not at all mandatory, but I can see the problem existing of people for some reason feel as if there forced to run (re. Dailies)

  10. #10
    Moderator MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by babo7000 View Post
    Well, Challenge Mode in this idea would simply be an alternative to lfr, not at all mandatory, but I can see the problem existing of people for some reason feel as if there forced to run (re. Dailies)
    If they have gear, people would think of them that way. It's the way of things.
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  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Eschaton View Post
    If they have gear, people would think of them that way. It's the way of things.
    To add to this, if they're an alternative path to LFR gear (as suggested) they will either be easier to complete/gear up in than LFRs making them mandatory and LFRs obsolete, or they will be more difficult making them obsolete and people will avoid them (path of least resistance).

    If they are additional sources of gear on TOP of the current LFR, then they will be mandatory. (or at least feel like it. )




    I like OP's idea of adding more progression/content for small group play, but with the implementation of LFR, it is going to be VERY difficult to fit in.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Spinachsandwich View Post
    Every time i start to feel that Ghostcrawler is not good at his job, all i have to do is come look for a post like this one to see that he's not as bad as i thought.
    Freaking hero. xD

    But ontopic, horrible, HORRIBLE idea.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by babo7000 View Post
    Well, Challenge Mode in this idea would simply be an alternative to lfr, not at all mandatory, but I can see the problem existing of people for some reason feel as if there forced to run (re. Dailies)
    They will run both.

  14. #14
    Challenge modes are the only thing that makes me actually play the game outside raids.

  15. #15
    The Patient MyCelar's Avatar
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    What are you talking about? We already 3 manned half of the challenge modes on gold medal.

    Youtube.com/MyCelar

  16. #16
    Scarab Lord Mokoshne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drakzlol View Post
    Challenge modes are the only thing that makes me actually play the game outside raids.
    Challenge Modes were the best thing to come out of MoP.
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