Thread: 5.4 shadow gear

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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaesebrezen View Post
    Just to clarify what i meant: You are hastecapped even without amp, you now equip amp. Before Mastery and Crit (these are examples) were at 0.61 both, afterwards both are at 0.66. The actual value changes, but thei relation between mastery/crit will not change.

    Now you decide to reforge the excess haste into crit, which will result in masteries value raising. This behaviour is caused by T16-2pc piece. Many Mastery procs not critting are bad, few mastery procs that all crit also are bad. In general you want to keep Mastery/Crit at the right balance after the GCD cap.
    Obviously that's the logically understanding of it. Which I agree with, but I think I was doing sims with just warforged gear and it was having the same type of relation with stats. I think it had to deal with mastery starting to plateau out. It's possible I'm wrong and just enter it in incorrectly on my spread sheet. Ill have to check when I get home and ill let you know.

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  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaesebrezen View Post
    Just to clarify what i meant: You are hastecapped even without amp, you now equip amp. Before Mastery and Crit (these are examples) were at 0.61 both, afterwards both are at 0.66. The actual value changes, but thei relation between mastery/crit will not change.
    This isn't entirely accurate or inaccurate. The effective point for point ratio between 1% crit / 1% mastery changes because of the amp trinkets, so the gap narrows between ~1.799 with no amp trinket to ~1.650 WITH A 2/2 HWF amp trinket (assuming LMG). The deltas between the two can't be the same because you're increased Mastery's relative effect by 9%.

    (See my post on the H2P Sr. Members forum for some more maths, though I've done some refining since I posted it.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaesebrezen View Post
    Now you decide to reforge the excess haste into crit, which will result in masteries value raising. This behaviour is caused by T16-2pc piece. Many Mastery procs not critting are bad, few mastery procs that all crit also are bad. In general you want to keep Mastery/Crit at the right balance after the GCD cap.
    This is roughly what I've been seeing for profiles with MFI selected. Without MFI as a talent choice, Mastery's value does drop some since the T16 2P is less pronounced. There are other tends that I've noticed and am exploring in more detail, but, if you have MFI as your talent the optimal gear ratio (before buffs and factoring in the effects of Amp) is 2/3 mastery 1/3 crit, after GCD cap (factor in Amp) and hit cap (also factor in amp, because spirit % increase).

    To anyone other than Kaes reading this: still sorting through everything, lots of things appear to be falling in to place but many more are still unknowns. I'm not trying to be vague, but I am trying to not post any misinformation (so I might omit some things that are sounding plausible).

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Twintop View Post
    This isn't entirely accurate or inaccurate. The effective point for point ratio between 1% crit / 1% mastery changes because of the amp trinkets, so the gap narrows between ~1.799 with no amp trinket to ~1.650 WITH A 2/2 HWF amp trinket (assuming LMG). The deltas between the two can't be the same because you're increased Mastery's relative effect by 9%.

    (See my post on the H2P Sr. Members forum for some more maths, though I've done some refining since I posted it.)



    This is roughly what I've been seeing for profiles with MFI selected. Without MFI as a talent choice, Mastery's value does drop some since the T16 2P is less pronounced. There are other tends that I've noticed and am exploring in more detail, but, if you have MFI as your talent the optimal gear ratio (before buffs and factoring in the effects of Amp) is 2/3 mastery 1/3 crit, after GCD cap (factor in Amp) and hit cap (also factor in amp, because spirit % increase).

    To anyone other than Kaes reading this: still sorting through everything, lots of things appear to be falling in to place but many more are still unknowns. I'm not trying to be vague, but I am trying to not post any misinformation (so I might omit some things that are sounding plausible).
    The spirit increase is ONLY for the healer amp-trinket btw. The caster DPS has no such increase. I think they'll make sure the healer one doesn't actually work on us at all, otherwise, healers will go nuts with us nicking their trinket.

  4. #44
    Dreadlord veiledy0's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Helycon View Post
    The spirit increase is ONLY for the healer amp-trinket btw. The caster DPS has no such increase.
    Uhm, yes it does. Purified Bindings of Immerseus
    When you cried I'd wipe away all of your tears
    When you'd scream I'd fight away all of your fears
    And I held your hand through all of these years

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by veiledy0 View Post
    veiledy0 is correct, it DOES. Hop on PTR and check it out...

    With that being said, there are some players showing some unhappiness with it not being hit instead of spirit, so it might change some (or be removed). As of right now, though, it is spirit.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by veiledy0 View Post
    Apologies, must have been the latest build.

    I did check wowhead beforehand, but the mouseover in the search gives different results than the actual page, which is annoying.
    But it doesn't make sense for our trinket indead. I should just add to hit rating since we share with other casters and it'll be BiS for basically every class. Would be a shame to see 7% stats go to waste because they aren't hybrid users.

  7. #47
    Dreadlord veiledy0's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Helycon View Post
    Would be a shame to see 7% stats go to waste because they aren't hybrid users.
    Why would this be a shame? /grins
    When you cried I'd wipe away all of your tears
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  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by veiledy0 View Post
    Why would this be a shame? /grins
    Spirit users first >=]

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  9. #49
    Dreadlord soulyouth's Avatar
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    I have to say the spirit on that gives me a ear to ear grin, now I can say hybrids first :P
    Although we are already swimming in to much hit.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by soulyouth View Post
    I have to say the spirit on that gives me a ear to ear grin, now I can say hybrids first :P
    Although we are already swimming in to much hit.
    There's actually very little hit gear come 5.4

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  11. #51
    Dreadlord soulyouth's Avatar
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    Nice to hear Drye
    Think this might be a way of them to give the hybrids a little buff without really saying so, less hit = more secondary stats right ? won't be huge, I think with that trinket it would be maybe 1% less hit we would need if it works like the human racial does.
    Last edited by soulyouth; 2013-08-23 at 07:29 AM.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Drye View Post
    There's actually very little hit gear come 5.4
    That's nice. Both my main priest and my ele shaman are draenei (from back in the day when heroic presence was a raid buff), and ever since cataclysm I struggle not to be over the cap. It's particularly annoying for elemental since it's the exact same gear for resto and it's usually loaded with spirit.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by soulyouth View Post
    Nice to hear Drye
    Think this might be a way of them to give the hybrids a little buff without really saying so, less hit = more secondary stats right ? won't be huge, I think with that trinket it would be maybe 1% less hit we would need if it works like the human racial does.
    It's roughly 350 free stats.

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  14. #54
    Dreadlord veiledy0's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drye View Post
    It's roughly 350 free stats.
    There's a saying in my language, "If given free, even vinegar is sweet".
    When you cried I'd wipe away all of your tears
    When you'd scream I'd fight away all of your fears
    And I held your hand through all of these years

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by veiledy0 View Post
    There's a saying in my language, "If given free, even vinegar is sweet".
    You should see how many free haste points we get from being goblin/using amp trinket.

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  16. #56
    Dreadlord veiledy0's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drye View Post
    You should see how many free haste points we get from being goblin/using amp trinket.
    Becoming goblin isn't free tho
    When you cried I'd wipe away all of your tears
    When you'd scream I'd fight away all of your fears
    And I held your hand through all of these years

  17. #57
    Dreadlord soulyouth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drye View Post
    You should see how many free haste points we get from being goblin/using amp trinket.
    Nooo just got used to troll, goblin is soooo fucking ugly

  18. #58
    Dreadlord veiledy0's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by soulyouth View Post
    got used to troll, goblin is soooo fucking ugly
    Not sure if it gets more paradoxical than this.
    When you cried I'd wipe away all of your tears
    When you'd scream I'd fight away all of your fears
    And I held your hand through all of these years

  19. #59
    Dreadlord soulyouth's Avatar
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    Fem troll is ok for horde, I'd be male human at the drop of a hat if I could

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by soulyouth View Post
    Fem troll is ok for horde, I'd be male human at the drop of a hat if I could
    Talk about ugly =P

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