RP and Gear/Level

[chazus]

I work hard to get my characters good gear. I also enjoy RP. I often see "Elite Shadowmaster Assassins" or whatever title people want, on a level 10, or something.

I usually state in my MRP, that my character is about as powerful as their ilvl (at this point, most of them are 520), indicating that anyone below that ilvl, below level 90, or below their 'capability', is in direct danger from them in combat. I don't duel for actual combat, but is it fair for me to request that assumption to be made?

Anyone can 'say' that their character has 'done X' or a 'veteran of Y', but I feel that having actually completed certain tasks ought to allow more leeway.

On that note, is it fair for lower level characters to simply 'claim' they can kick your raid gear decked 90, because it's in their description?

Certainly, anyone can choose not to RP with anyone else. Which seems more fair, though?

On another note, should my personal accomplishments account for anything IC'ly? If I've completed Heroic Raids (while current), completed specific content on other characters that are difficult, etc?

[The Madgod]

Some slight reformatting of your post since I can answer a couple paragraphs with the same general response.

I usually state in my MRP, that my character is about as powerful as their ilvl (at this point, most of them are 520), indicating that anyone below that ilvl, below level 90, or below their 'capability', is in direct danger from them in combat. I don't duel for actual combat, but is it fair for me to request that assumption to be made?

On that note, is it fair for lower level characters to simply 'claim' they can kick your raid gear decked 90, because it's in their description?

If they can RP it properly and the character isn't absurd, I don't really see why not.

Power in RP doesn't come from gear, it comes from your character. Saying that your character is more powerful than other people's characters because you have a higher item level is, to be blunt, not much of a roleplayer's attitude. It's a raider or PvPer's attitude. A character, in lore, is only as strong as the sum of his or her strengths, weaknesses, and experiences. Item level, a pure game mechanic if there ever was one, doesn't (and in my opinion, shouldn't) factor into it at all.

On another note, should my personal accomplishments account for anything IC'ly? If I've completed Heroic Raids (while current), completed specific content on other characters that are difficult, etc?

The entire questing and dungeon and raid system's storytelling method should never be translated into your character's backstory. You cannot claim any of the accomplishments you have gotten during quests, dungeons, scenarios, world raids, city raids, or anything in between. Everyone else can in theory claim those exact same things and thus create a paradox. It's best that you do not mention them at all. This is a pretty big taboo in RP.

Best you can say is "I was at the siege of Icecrown." Because there was a lot of people there, it allows you to be there, but not be of as much significance as to, say, kill a unique NPC or what have you, which is where we'd start to see paradoxes. If there was an or other such large group and you could potentially have been a part of it it is fine to claim you were there but you cannot ever say that you did something more specific / "unique."

[chazus]

Power in RP doesn't come from gear, it comes from your character. Saying that your character is more powerful than other people's characters because you have a higher item level is, to be blunt, not much of a roleplayer's attitude.

While I understand that it doesn't come from gear specifically, I would think that a character who has survived the trials and tribulations of some of the most dangerous places in the world (raids) would be more powerful than a similar level person who hangs around in bars in low level gear, with nearly no dangerous experience to speak of. Of course, that's up to the player to say so. I feel the gear acts as a quantifiable, observable metric of character power, I suppose.

You cannot claim any of the accomplishments you have gotten during quests, dungeons, scenarios, world raids, city raids, or anything in between. Everyone else can in theory claim those exact same things and thus create a paradox. It's best that you do not mention them at all. This is a pretty big taboo in RP.

Well, yes, certainly not any specific event or raid boss. That's a given. But I think it's fair to say that your character has been to Mogushan Vaults, or aided in the assault on the Throne of Thunder. A level 89 character simply cannot claim that, or achieve enough power to go to those places and survive.

Of course, this also makes the assumption that any level 90 character can, in turn, 'beat' any lower level character without question. I don't know how I feel about that statement. I'm not saying my method is right or wrong, I'm merely looking for input to better define gauging a character's ability.

[Chonar]

On the flipside though, while I agree with Acnoc here, I can totally see where you're coming from when a level 10 "Elite Shadomaster" is being a bad, over-the-top, smacktalking powerplayer... its a bit hard to respond seriously if you can challenge them to a duel and *breathe* on them to defeat them.

You know these type of people will pose something like *flips over, stands on your head, and instantly kills you by dropping a dagger in your skull between his feet* if you RP-battle them instead, so...

[The Madgod]

While I understand that it doesn't come from gear specifically, I would think that a character who has survived the trials and tribulations of some of the most dangerous places in the world (raids) would be more powerful than a similar level person who hangs around in bars in low level gear, with nearly no dangerous experience to speak of. Of course, that's up to the player to say so. I feel the gear acts as a quantifiable, observable metric of character power, I suppose.

Except that we can't claim that we were part of a raid and, as I said, you can't use quests where you do something unique as a part of your character's backstory.

Levels and gear are the game's way to express GAMEPLAY power. Roleplaying has nothing to do with that. Ergo, levels and gear are not proper ways to express the power of a character in lore / while roleplaying.

I would say it is wrong to think that because a player has their avatar mainly sit in an inn that their character hasn't done anything of note. In-game achievement does not equate to your character's experience or backstory.

Well, yes, certainly not any specific event or raid boss. That's a given. But I think it's fair to say that your character has been to Mogushan Vaults, or aided in the assault on the Throne of Thunder. A level 89 character simply cannot claim that, or achieve enough power to go to those places and survive.

Mogu'shan vaults was raided by a random team of adventurers once. Not by an army. If any adventurers went there afterwards they would find an empty tomb.

Same with the Throne of Thunder in of itself... it was a team of adventurers, not an army. Two armies were fighting the Thunder King's forces (and each other) outside. You can claim you were part of either of those, not part of that group of adventurers. Like MSV, if you went there after those adventurers were done cleansing the place you'd probably find some animals lurking about or a couple minor artifacts, but it really wouldn't be that dangerous anymore. All the good loot that was able to be hauled off would have been taken.

You can say you've been there but really, after it is scoured by that first group, are you really going to think that your character's going to find something worthwhile there? Especially considering that if this were a common practice among roleplayers we'd have thousands of people saying they got some nice item out of one of these raids? I doubt there would even be that many wearable items in those areas, let alone enough of the item type that you want.

Of course, this also makes the assumption that any level 90 character can, in turn, 'beat' any lower level character without question. I don't know how I feel about that statement. I'm not saying my method is right or wrong, I'm merely looking for input to better define gauging a character's ability.

I've been using my system for a long while... it's kept things pretty consistent.

[chazus]

Same with the Throne of Thunder in of itself... it was a team of adventurers, not an army. Two armies were fighting the Thunder King's forces (and each other) outside.

I guess that's where we have differing opinions of 'raids'. I've always been under the impression that, yes, a 'team of adventurers' might take on the actual game bosses themselves, but the battle through the entire place is effectively an ongoing battle until the next patch comes. To me, Lei Shen was not dead until shortly before 5.3, and people had been battling it out for a good couple months. Not 'ten people crunching through there in a few hours' but rather an army taking it in sections, and only the boss battles were decisive, specific events. But, that's just my opinion.

[The Madgod]

On the flipside though, while I agree with Acnoc here, I can totally see where you're coming from when a level 10 "Elite Shadomaster" is being a bad, over-the-top, smacktalking powerplayer... its a bit hard to respond seriously if you can challenge them to a duel and *breathe* on them to defeat them.

You know these type of people will pose something like *flips over, stands on your head, and instantly kills you by dropping a dagger in your skull between his feet* if you RP-battle them instead, so...

Absolutely correct. Of course, that's another issue entirely :P

I've got a guy on Wyrmrest Accord... he's level 10-15 right now, but I've got him pegged as a relatively powerful mage. Spends a lot of time teaching in Dalaran, but he can't really do much as his age has begun to get the best of him. Not really that overpowered, but that's his backstory which I am sticking to. Leveling and gearing, for me, are simply ways to get him access to different transmog gear for a couple nice sets of robes. It has no other meaning to me as a roleplayer.

It's far more like RPing here... there's no in-game hullabaloo to weigh down the writing and your character can just... BE. All without having to grind levels to be able to get your character their nice armor or the title you want or whatever. No gameplay mucking things up.

I guess that's where we have differing opinions of 'raids'. I've always been under the impression that, yes, a 'team of adventurers' might take on the actual game bosses themselves, but the battle through the entire place is effectively an ongoing battle until the next patch comes. To me, Lei Shen was not dead until shortly before 5.3, and people had been battling it out for a good couple months. Not 'ten people crunching through there in a few hours' but rather an army taking it in sections, and only the boss battles were decisive, specific events. But, that's just my opinion.

How could you fit an army into the Molten Core without showing a hint of them? Or Karazhan? What of the Throne of the Four Winds? How could these locations take months to whittle away while bosses are downed by small groups?

What about Dragon Soul, where there is obvious evidence of this army? If your interpretation is correct, then why is it that we don't see these armies within more of these raids?

I think it certainly would be bit more realistic... in some ways, but it's inconsistent. We don't see evidence of any armies in the vast majority of raids... we only see the adventurers. Saying what we see from their perspective is what happened canonically is the only real consistent way to describe how those events work.

[chazus]

If your interpretation is correct, then why is it that we don't see these armies within more of these raids?

The same reason that you don't see everyone in Stormwind. Stormwind has an estimated population of 200,000. Where are all those people? The same with raids. You don't 'see' the random people fighting alongside, or in between bosses.

I don't remember if it was official canon or not, but I've seen a number of references that the things we see in game, and people, are effectively the 'important' things that we remember, or are somehow pivotal. You see what's relative, and not actually there. I've always been under the impression that, in raids, they are literally seiges of hundreds, if not thousands of people, and the 10-25 players actually engaging in combat are simply the 'heavy hitters' that are written down in lore (i.e. 'champions' or 'heros'). There are lots of other people there, you just don't pay attention to (or see) them.

[The Madgod]

The same reason that you don't see everyone in Stormwind. Stormwind has an estimated population of 200,000. Where are all those people? The same with raids. You don't 'see' the random people fighting alongside, or in between bosses.

The difference is that Stormwind has people we can see with our own eyes. We don't see hide nor hair of this army in basically every raid out there. How is it that we can assume that it even exists when there's no evidence to back it up? When Blizzard wants to show an army in a raid, they've done so. We've seen Ashen Verdict within Icecrown Citadel. We've seen the armies in the Dragon Soul. We've seen the Alliance and Horde forces in the Battle of Mount Hyjal.

Regardless this is really irrelevant. As I said, in-game achievement shouldn't mean squat for a character. Levels and gear are gameplay mechanics, which don't have anything to do with roleplaying.

I could make a thread right now and start roleplaying in the Warcraft universe. The only difference to doing it on this forum and roleplaying in the game itself is that you're looking at a rendered version of the world while playing the game and you're limited to where you can go by your character's level and what you can do by how the game was designed.

Gameplay encroaches on lore and roleplaying enough. It shouldn't dictate what you can say your character is too. Ultimately, that is my point in all of this: using any gameplay to gate a character's story is wrong. There are so many things you can experience that gameplay won't allow, there's no real reason to cage yourself with it. Consistency is a very important thing for roleplaying and you said it yourself, the system you are currently implementing is not fully consistent.

Ignoring gameplay in favor of lore, of story, is really, as far as I'm concerned, all you need to do to have a perfectly consistent system. Levels don't matter. Achievements don't matter. Gear doesn't matter. All that matters is your character and your story.

[Deleted]

If you take your raid achievements as literal IC canon, you're going to have a bad time. Millions of people didn't all fight atop Icecrown citadel alongside Tyrion Fordring as the Lich King was finally defeated; yet secretly replaced with Bolvar Fordragon. Your character didn't ride Deathwing's spine.

The key is to understand that quest, raid, and dungeon content is written not unlike a single player game; to build upon the fantasy appeal of WoW. That is the fantasy of being a mighty and legendary hero who saves the world. That's fun. But it isn't so constructive for RP; it's boring.

ICly, I mock and dismiss anyone who claims to be weilding lore weapons, to have had personally killed raid bosses, to gace close personal relationships to lore NPCs. "Oh sure buddy, you killed deathwing."

ilevels and gear are strictly a PvE and PvP game-play mechanic; and don't have a natural or deserved place in RP (unless either of those things are entering RP itself). For instance, an epic raid weapon might help you win a duel, but that's the extent of it's relevance to RP (mechanical, for combat, if it happens).

The challenge of RP is to create interesting, compelling characters; not to import your gear and achievements from the PvP or PvE game. Gear-driven power mechanics are themselves antithetical to good storytelling anyway. Who says that a hammer forged in Stomemaul iron is necessarily inferior to one made by the smiths of the Mag'har in Nagrand, which is in turn not as good as a spear dating from the Forsaken Northrend campaign? What makes Frostweave 'not as good' as emberweave, but better than netherweave?

Empty levels from your mind. Who is your character? Where are they from? What are they good at? Is that their facourite weapon? Did they claim it from the corpse of a bandit leader in Deadwind pass? Or was it gifted to them by a tribe of Arrakoa they lived with when stranded in Outland?

People who have the hardest time doing this are people with much to gain if there were a legitimate and direct link between gear progression and RP importance. They bemoan the idea of a lowbie having the audacity to RP as if they were equal to them. Being low level or undergeared already has it's own detriment to RP; in the places one can and can't go, in the xmog sets one has at one's disposal. The true currency of an RP character's significance is not their ilvl, but the relationships they've built. If some unknown lowbie rolls in claiming he's the bee's knees, he's going to be taken as seriously as the prog raider who rocks up claiming to be the weilder of the corrupted ashbringer. Conversely, if someone likes getting on their lvl 10 Orc shaman and playing a retired but badass innkeeper, and has built up a history with the other RP player patrons of the inn, then no- there's nothing wrong with the dissonance of his lvl or ilvl and his RP status.

TL;DR you should seek to build social face instead of relying on the mechanical thresholds you've achieved in an unrelated facet of the game.

[Lynneiah]

As a general rule of thumb, anything that includes numbers and stats can easily be dismissed as being purely for the purpose of OOC gameplay and not cannon in RPs. Compare to real life where, if I punch someone, I don't deal X damage, because my level is Y and my strength is Z, and my strength definitely isn't Z+A when I put on a +A strength belt.
I also find duels to be a very ineffective way of settling IC fights, too. Again, they rely on stats, as well as player skill (as opposed to IC character skill). A good emote fight between RPers who actually know what they're doing will almost always consist of 'attempts', followed by the other player deciding if it hits or not.

/e swings her fist at <name>'s head.
Replied to by
/e ducks back, covering his face with his arm. He gets punched squarely in the wrist.

This requires some gut-feeling to decide what would make for the most interesting RP and is, I agree, easily abused by godmodders, but those people tend to find themselves without people wanting to RP with them very quickly, at least in my experience.
/roll fights are also popular, giving each attack a 50% chance of hitting or missing. Varieties of this exist with extra rules that all do not include the character's OOC level and gear.

[Uranu5]

Oh God... the RP Combat discussion in relations to a In-game way to provide structure to RP.

Well I have many thoughts on the topic that I couldn't voice within a short amount of time as I am sure it wouldn't take much time to dispute. However I do wish that people did use In-game mechanics to work heavily with Open World RP as there would be a built in ledger that people cannot default from nor dispute. Lore is, of course, the rule list that all RPer's should go by... however how many people have studied or even read all of the Warcraft Lore? Not many I can assume. Going with this, would it be beneficial to just make a small social group that stays isolated from everyone, or even creates a form or test that will allow new possible members to join this -Real Rp- club? I think that would make the game, the RP, turn more into work then into the fun it is suppose to provide.

A In-game basis of power and rules does make everything more simplified... though it does go against Lore which completely ruins the immersion.

Then with the argument of the paradox's created with RP'ing as one of the adventurers who has -slain the beast-... It seems just as mary-sue as being a top researcher in your field, or a great Magi' who understands most or all of the arcane's though centuries of experience. Obviously if people control their self interest of having their character being the best, you can still have fun with being -the second best- or less, just all about what experiences your character is going to have now within what ever city they are in or if you are RPing out of a main city, in that place and time (Lets also keep in mind that if you are an adventurer, researcher, etc. that you probably spend a whole expansion away from society as you were doing your thing). So there should be no point in limiting someone to their progression -if- they say -have- that progression on that server with that character... However the descriptive quality and time-lapse for it had better be close to realism as possible... Mages -do- take a lot of mana and physical energy in porting out to another Ley Line (if they are still along the ley-line trail) and you can't just walk right back to the stage you were at in your raid.

Overall, I am just trying to state that... with keeping in both Lore and Realism Boundaries, In-game mechanics in my opinion should definitely be used for both experiences in areas if it is something rare that few RP'ers have completed as it does set a difference.

[Zaelkath]

I don't RP so my knowledge on the subject is limited, however, I see no issue with your logic.

If your character is strong enough through gear/level then they should be stronger than others below them to an extent. If the person with lesser gear/level claims to be more powerful then you then he should be ready to prove it.

[The Madgod]

Oh God... the RP Combat discussion in relations to a In-game way to provide structure to RP.

Well I have many thoughts on the topic that I couldn't voice within a short amount of time as I am sure it wouldn't take much time to dispute. However I do wish that people did use In-game mechanics to work heavily with Open World RP as there would be a built in ledger that people cannot default from nor dispute. Lore is, of course, the rule list that all RPer's should go by... however how many people have studied or even read all of the Warcraft Lore? Not many I can assume. Going with this, would it be beneficial to just make a small social group that stays isolated from everyone, or even creates a form or test that will allow new possible members to join this -Real Rp- club? I think that would make the game, the RP, turn more into work then into the fun it is suppose to provide.

You don't need to know the lore at all to RP. You can't really make as deep of a character background but it's not really necessary for the actual act of roleplaying. It's a common misconception. What really makes the RP community gated are the rules within... like the ones being discussed here. I've noticed that it's sometimes annoying for people who are new to get used to it, since a lot of them basically throw "the game" out of the window.

A In-game basis of power and rules does make everything more simplified... though it does go against Lore which completely ruins the immersion.

Which is exactly why it should be ignored. Roleplaying is all about lore and immersion. If something goes against both of those things, why should it be used by the community?

Then with the argument of the paradox's created with RP'ing as one of the adventurers who has -slain the beast-... It seems just as mary-sue as being a top researcher in your field, or a great Magi' who understands most or all of the arcane's though centuries of experience.

You're not a mary sue if you're good at what you do. You are if you claim to have done basically everything that your character is portrayed as doing via quests. There's a gigantic difference between being a top researcher and being THE top researcher... and there's plenty of great magi (though really the understands most or all thing is what would make it mary sueish. Best would be "a great amount"). The "hundreds of years" of experience bit does narrow down your choice of race though.

Overall, I am just trying to state that... with keeping in both Lore and Realism Boundaries, In-game mechanics in my opinion should definitely be used for both experiences in areas if it is something rare that few RP'ers have completed as it does set a difference.

The problem with this really is that what mechanics could be used without crossing lore or realism? Dungeons and raids can't fit everyone who's done them in them and bosses don't respawn. Quests are one-shot only and a good number don't portray the player as just a regular soldier. They're always portrayed as someone who stands out in one way or another.

Dailies are really the only in-game mechanic that would be able to be used by a roleplayer without crossing the laws set by the community... and even then, only some dailies. I could never see a lot of people say that they did the Netherwing quests, for example. Rescue a drake? Maybe. Not in the way the game portrays it though.

I don't RP so my knowledge on the subject is limited, however, I see no issue with your logic.

If your character is strong enough through gear/level then they should be stronger than others below them to an extent. If the person with lesser gear/level claims to be more powerful then you then he should be ready to prove it.

The problem with the logic is that it's not a roleplayer's logic. It's a player's logic. They aren't the same thing and do not transfer over between the two styles of play.

[LilSaihah]

I'm just kinda poking in here so I don't want to quote anything specific, but levels aren't a power mechanic. Levels are more accurately a measurement of time. After, like, level 20, your character is pretty much regarded as being top stuff by your faction- You're probably even already a war veteran depending on your race. If you have two level 90s, it's entirely likely that one's seen the fall of the Lich King, the destruction of Deathwing, Ragnaros/Onyxia/Nefarian's permadeath, Kil'jaeden getting flushed down the toilet etc etc, while the other's prime accomplishment is the giant rabbit in Stormstout Brewery, but level-wise they're still treated as being completely identical. Gear's the same; relics pilfered from the Icecrown Citadel itself are worthless compared to weapons and armors dropped from the aforemented bunny.

That doesn't mean level and ilvl are irrelevant, they're pretty good measures for how dedicated someone actually is to their character. If they go out of their way to get to max level, grind dungeons to get a specific look, maybe even a title, then they're pretty invested in their character and should probably be taken more seriously in that role than Jo Schmo Level Fo who says he's a super duper master assassin.

You're not a mary sue if you're good at what you do. You are if you claim to have done basically everything that your character is portrayed as doing via quests.

I think that's more of a misunderstanding of the divide between the RP world and the game world than mary-sueism, and even then, if it fits contextually in your RP, then sure. Granted, in the most open of open roleplays you probably shouldn't be using any proper names in your backstory that you haven't made up, but rolling with things in the game world can make the RP all the better.

[Sal the Shieldhog]

I'm just kinda poking in here so I don't want to quote anything specific, but levels aren't a power mechanic. Levels are more accurately a measurement of time. After, like, level 20, your character is pretty much regarded as being top stuff by your faction- You're probably even already a war veteran depending on your race. If you have two level 90s, it's entirely likely that one's seen the fall of the Lich King, the destruction of Deathwing, Ragnaros/Onyxia/Nefarian's permadeath, Kil'jaeden getting flushed down the toilet etc etc, while the other's prime accomplishment is the giant rabbit in Stormstout Brewery, but level-wise they're still treated as being completely identical. Gear's the same; relics pilfered from the Icecrown Citadel itself are worthless compared to weapons and armors dropped from the aforemented bunny.

That doesn't mean level and ilvl are irrelevant, they're pretty good measures for how dedicated someone actually is to their character. If they go out of their way to get to max level, grind dungeons to get a specific look, maybe even a title, then they're pretty invested in their character and should probably be taken more seriously in that role than Jo Schmo Level Fo who says he's a super duper master assassin.



I think that's more of a misunderstanding of the divide between the RP world and the game world than mary-sueism, and even then, if it fits contextually in your RP, then sure. Granted, in the most open of open roleplays you probably shouldn't be using any proper names in your backstory that you haven't made up, but rolling with things in the game world can make the RP all the better.

Gameplay and role play are completely different. Gameplay wise (questing, etc), we are regarded as super powerful, yadda yadda, lore characters refer to us by name, that sort of thing. That's gameplay. Just like a group of adventurers delving into ICC or Magtheridon's Lair is gameplay - that's us. It's sort of like a solo RPG.

Lore wise, our character can't have done those things, or we'd have 7 million different people claiming they helped the Cenarion Circle kill Ragnaros in Sulfuron Keep. It just can't happen that way - thus, we have the RP wide consensus that it was a random group of adventurers who did that, and not our personal characters. Our characters can be at or near those central events (for example, my warrior was at the Siege of Icecrown Citadel - he did NOT take part in the fight against the Lich King, but he was fitting the Scourge there all the same. Same deal with Dragon Soul and Siege of Orgrimmar).

Levels and the stats on gear, those are gameplay mechanics that don't effect RP at all. It's kinda like transmog - it's the look were going for, not the basic stuff. RP wise, someone with a simple looking bow could take down my warrior with her ToT gear - stats don't effect that kind of thing, so the arrow would find a space in the plate or something to pass between. Or for a better example, in a RP fight between my warrior and Maddy's Mage, is highly likely his Mage could win, seeing as how OP mages can be against a simple warrior - I no longer have abilities like Charge and Spell Reflect at my disposal, and he is able to fling powerful spells at me, and the level difference( 90 > 15) no longer is brought into consideration.

Dedication to their character is important yes, but it doesn't complete translate to role playing. Almost any serious role player will tell you that levels, i levels, and gear stats don't matter in RP, and those that tell you they do aren't really role players at all.

[The Madgod]

I'm just kinda poking in here so I don't want to quote anything specific, but levels aren't a power mechanic. Levels are more accurately a measurement of time. After, like, level 20, your character is pretty much regarded as being top stuff by your faction- You're probably even already a war veteran depending on your race. If you have two level 90s, it's entirely likely that one's seen the fall of the Lich King, the destruction of Deathwing, Ragnaros/Onyxia/Nefarian's permadeath, Kil'jaeden getting flushed down the toilet etc etc, while the other's prime accomplishment is the giant rabbit in Stormstout Brewery, but level-wise they're still treated as being completely identical. Gear's the same; relics pilfered from the Icecrown Citadel itself are worthless compared to weapons and armors dropped from the aforemented bunny.

The problem with that is we experience different periods of time in a non-linear fashion because of gameplay. 1-58 is cata for all races except pandaren (who have 1-10 being mists), draenei, and blood elves (assuming you still do their zones, in which case it's 1-20 TBC), then you go to TBC for 58-68, then Wrath for 68-80. It makes little sense to use a linear system to explain something which is very much non-linear. It makes far more sense to chuck levels out the window and use history to explain time. You get rid of the inconsistencies and you can focus on what matters (as far as RP is concerned).

That doesn't mean level and ilvl are irrelevant, they're pretty good measures for how dedicated someone actually is to their character. If they go out of their way to get to max level, grind dungeons to get a specific look, maybe even a title, then they're pretty invested in their character and should probably be taken more seriously in that role than Jo Schmo Level Fo who says he's a super duper master assassin.

Why?

We're talking about roleplaying, right? Why is it that they should be taken more seriously than someone who's got less in-game achievements?

I would take the character who is better portrayed more seriously. If the level four character is saying he is a "super duper master assassin" then of course we won't take him seriously. If he says he is an accomplished rogue and has an actually well fleshed out story, that's an entirely different can of worms.

Who would you take more seriously, for roleplaying? A level 90 in heroic thunderforged gear saying he is the slayer of Lei Shen and soon-to-be conqueror of Orgrimmar and shall be crowned Warchief of the Horde (as a human warlock), or a level 15 mage who says that he teaches in Dalaran after years of arcane study, wishing to spend his twilight years passing his knowledge onto the next generation?

I think that's more of a misunderstanding of the divide between the RP world and the game world than mary-sueism, and even then, if it fits contextually in your RP, then sure. Granted, in the most open of open roleplays you probably shouldn't be using any proper names in your backstory that you haven't made up, but rolling with things in the game world can make the RP all the better.

There's a difference between claiming that you've done a quest and claiming that you were kinda in the area when the general plotline was taking place, just helping out. An example: You were in Hyjal helping to defend the world tree, but you weren't the guy who went and got Fandral out of his prison. The former is perfectly acceptable. The latter is saying you did the quest, a one-off event, and is therefore unacceptable.

[likerofballs]

What if a person had the realm first achievment would they be able to claim they were the ones who did it

[Lynneiah]

That doesn't mean level and ilvl are irrelevant, they're pretty good measures for how dedicated someone actually is to their character. If they go out of their way to get to max level, grind dungeons to get a specific look, maybe even a title, then they're pretty invested in their character and should probably be taken more seriously in that role than Jo Schmo Level Fo who says he's a super duper master assassin.

The only thing that matters when taking someone seriously or not in terms of RP is the quality of RP. If a lvl 15 rogue can play a convincing master assassin, I'm all on board. On the other hand, there's plenty of lvl 90's in heroic gear who RP with smileys in /s and park their fat ass dragon on top of people in the Cathedral Square. Gear, levels, and time played means nothing.

[Uranu5]

I totes agree with the point of RP being well written, use of imagination, and of course strong creativity with earnest modesty with your character in the world. However I am just irked by -not- using some or even most ingame mechanics for RP. If that is the case, why RP on WoW and Not the Forums or in Whispers? Why move your character around and obviously the list goes on.

Claiming to have done something spectacular, and especially not being able to back it up properly, could make things sort of droll... but the uniqueness of lets say, if Paragon was on a RP server and the players role played well as hardcore Mercenaries who set out within whatever time it took for them to seek out and help defeat Garrosh (Heroic)... I think they would be the best to talk about near death experiences and fighting against overwhelming odds against a tyrannical Warchief. With that said, they do it within content being out... and I would not be ok with someone on a server getting the server first H Lei shen kill during patch 5.4, saying they laid hands directly on Lei Shen since that content is long gone, someone else had to have beat them to the punch.

Also obviously, with example to SoO being out, if a player from Paragon struts around with Mannoroth's Horns on his shoulders and states they are -the real deal- then it is a little too far fetched as I am sure they would of been either destroyed or one of the faction leaders would of nabbed them. There is and has to be a limit to how much credit is taken in certain events, as stated many times in this forum. From counting progression made by characters (patch per patch) with spells and technology... it seems feasible to believe that people all around are becoming more and more powerful or unique.

I just think there should be rules of thumb placed to control the ingame mechanics and limit them from going haywire in RP so that they are not going to waste.