RP and Gear/Level

[LilSaihah]

The problem with that is we experience different periods of time in a non-linear fashion because of gameplay. 1-58 is cata for all races except pandaren (who have 1-10 being mists), draenei, and blood elves (assuming you still do their zones, in which case it's 1-20 TBC), then you go to TBC for 58-68, then Wrath for 68-80. It makes little sense to use a linear system to explain something which is very much non-linear. It makes far more sense to chuck levels out the window and use history to explain time. You get rid of the inconsistencies and you can focus on what matters (as far as RP is concerned).

Cata is somewhat of a spanner in the works there, yes, but IMO it's still more valid than trying to use levels as an actual measure of a character's power.

Why?

We're talking about roleplaying, right? Why is it that they should be taken more seriously than someone who's got less in-game achievements?

As a spitball maybe they have more personal experience with the lore. Granted in my limited experience that doesn't seem to do much but maybe. \o/

I would take the character who is better portrayed more seriously. If the level four character is saying he is a "super duper master assassin" then of course we won't take him seriously. If he says he is an accomplished rogue and has an actually well fleshed out story, that's an entirely different can of worms.

Who would you take more seriously, for roleplaying? A level 90 in heroic thunderforged gear saying he is the slayer of Lei Shen and soon-to-be conqueror of Orgrimmar and shall be crowned Warchief of the Horde (as a human warlock), or a level 15 mage who says that he teaches in Dalaran after years of arcane study, wishing to spend his twilight years passing his knowledge onto the next generation?

We're comparing two seperate aspects here which are not mutually exclusive; roleplaying ability and in-game accomplishments. I'm very much aware that quality of writing is more important than in-game accomplishments, but in-game accomplishments can still be an aspect of how seriously you're going to take someone.

Who would you take more seriously, for roleplaying? A level 90 in heroic thunderforged gear saying he is the slayer of Lei Shen and soon-to-be conqueror of Orgrimmar and shall be crowned Warchief of the Horde (as a human warlock), or a level 15 in a mix of greens and whites saying he is the slayer of Lei Shen and soon-to-be conqueror of Orgrimmar and shall be crowned Warchief of the Horde (as a human warlock)? A level 2 in a loincloth saying he's a Dalaran teacher, or a level 80 with Ulduar tier gear and the tabard (i know it kinda breaks the example but you can't get ulduar tier gear on a level 15 so =/ )?

There's a difference between claiming that you've done a quest and claiming that you were kinda in the area when the general plotline was taking place, just helping out. An example: You were in Hyjal helping to defend the world tree, but you weren't the guy who went and got Fandral out of his prison. The former is perfectly acceptable. The latter is saying you did the quest, a one-off event, and is therefore unacceptable.

That was more of an example for closed RP. The more people in the community, the more likely people are to call you out (successfully or unsuccessfully) on your character. WoW communities have a theoretical limit so you can claim (minor) things in lore; at a spitball, you could say you're a minor raid boss's son/daughter and probably come out of that without getting dinged up too hard.

That kinda depends on how you decide your community size though. I'm assuming we're operating on a server basis.

[The Madgod]

Cata is somewhat of a spanner in the works there, yes, but IMO it's still more valid than trying to use levels as an actual measure of a character's power.

But if there's a system that fits better with the actual act of roleplaying (I.E. the timeline as shown by the lore) then why use it? It's a system which is broken compared to a system which works perfectly.

We're comparing two seperate aspects here which are not mutually exclusive; roleplaying ability and in-game accomplishments. I'm very much aware that quality of writing is more important than in-game accomplishments, but in-game accomplishments can still be an aspect of how seriously you're going to take someone.

You are saying that someone who puts more effort into their in-game character and has more in-game achievements should be taken more seriously in RP. I'm arguing that such really isn't relevant to how seriously one should be taken.

Who would you take more seriously, for roleplaying? A level 90 in heroic thunderforged gear saying he is the slayer of Lei Shen and soon-to-be conqueror of Orgrimmar and shall be crowned Warchief of the Horde (as a human warlock), or a level 15 in a mix of greens and whites saying he is the slayer of Lei Shen and soon-to-be conqueror of Orgrimmar and shall be crowned Warchief of the Horde (as a human warlock)?

I would look at both of them like they were equally stupid.

A level 2 in a loincloth saying he's a Dalaran teacher, or a level 80 with Ulduar tier gear and the tabard (i know it kinda breaks the example but you can't get ulduar tier gear on a level 15 so =/ )?

The level 80 because a teacher from Dalaran wouldn't be just wearing a loincloth. If he was wearing actual robes, then I'd take both as serious as their backstory and RP ability merit.

That was more of an example for closed RP. The more people in the community, the more likely people are to call you out (successfully or unsuccessfully) on your character. WoW communities have a theoretical limit so you can claim (minor) things in lore; at a spitball, you could say you're a minor raid boss's son/daughter and probably come out of that without getting dinged up too hard.

Oh dear god no. It's always an all or nothing approach. If you can claim it, so can anyone else. That's why all of this is taboo... because the possibility is there and the community in general has just decided "Hey, we're going to not do that at all."

[LilSaihah]

But if there's a system that fits better with the actual act of roleplaying (I.E. the timeline as shown by the lore) then why use it? It's a system which is broken compared to a system which works perfectly.

That's not quite what I said. I didn't say that you should use level as a measurement of progression in the story. I said that level is better as a measurement of progression in the story than it is a measure of a character's ability or power, not as a blessing on it as a measurement of time, but as a failing of it as a measurement of ability.

You are saying that someone who puts more effort into their in-game character and has more in-game achievements should be taken more seriously in RP. I'm arguing that such really isn't relevant to how seriously one should be taken.

Yes, that sounds about right. Good summary.

The level 80 because a teacher from Dalaran wouldn't be just wearing a loincloth. If he was wearing actual robes, then I'd take both as serious as their backstory and RP ability merit.

Any robe at all? No more attention to detail than that? I think a bit more effort would probably make them a bit more appealing/interesting, as the game is after all a visual and textual medium and relying solely on one is overall wasting half of the experience.

Oh dear god no. It's always an all or nothing approach. If you can claim it, so can anyone else. That's why all of this is taboo... because the possibility is there and the community in general has just decided "Hey, we're going to not do that at all."

If someone's gonna throw a serious tantrum because I say my character had a highschool fling with Siegemaster Blackfuse (is that even his name) then that's... Not really particularly fun. Fair enough if that's how you/these forums swing, I don't roleplay here, but I think detaching your RP from the game world diminishes the experience. If you can stay as close to the lore as possible without getting too close to center stage or breaking anything, that's fine, IMO. Maybe I just give people more leeway than you do.

[The Madgod]

That's not quite what I said. I didn't say that you should use level as a measurement of progression in the story. I said that level is better as a measurement of progression in the story than it is a measure of a character's ability or power, not as a blessing on it as a measurement of time, but as a failing of it as a measurement of ability.

Oh. Well. That was a rather pointless reiteration of my general stance then, isn't it.

Any robe at all? No more attention to detail than that? I think a bit more effort would probably make them a bit more appealing/interesting, as the game is after all a visual and textual medium and relying solely on one is overall wasting half of the experience.

If the robe could be a mage's robe, yeah, why not? It's not like Dalaran has a strict dress code. If he can act the part and if he's appropriate enough, I don't really think appearance would make or break the experience nor my perception of them.

If someone's gonna throw a serious tantrum because I say my character had a highschool fling with Siegemaster Blackfuse (is that even his name) then that's... Not really particularly fun. Fair enough if that's how you/these forums swing, I don't roleplay here, but I think detaching your RP from the game world diminishes the experience. If you can stay as close to the lore as possible without getting too close to center stage or breaking anything, that's fine, IMO. Maybe I just give people more leeway than you do.

There's a difference between detaching your RP from the game world and refraining from using canon characters as a crutch for your character. One is absolutely unhealthy and is rather poor taste. The other is entirely optional and forces your character's merit to lean on a work that someone else made. Take my Morzath for example. Has no real significant connections to any canon character and he's regarded as one of the better characters on these forums. His character doesn't need to rely on any canon character to make him seem unique or interesting. He just is, because he was written that way.

I call it a crutch because ultimately the only reason a canon character's in that backstory is because they're a canon character. You can achieve essentially the same sort of character without having to include that character and still be fiercely connected to the world via other means (like participating in events where a large number of "faceless" people would be expected to be at that time... i.e. every general arc of the story since Warcraft I).

Having a non-canon character replace that canon character would give you the exact same level of depth and really the same amount of connection with the world. You don't have to claim a connection to a canon character to be connected with the world. It's not really about the "who" but the "what." Saying that you trained under a random shaman rather than Drak'thar is really the same level of connection. Not because of who you're training under, but the simple fact that you are training. You're connecting with the canon lore of shaman. You don't really get anything that different from training under a canon character than you would a generic shaman, as far as quality of RP and storytelling is concerned.

You wouldn't get a tantrum because of your character being intimately related (even for a short time) with a canon character, but I wouldn't be surprised if people would look at that and frown a little.

[The Jester]

Starting off a character as a god (or in your case Elite Shadowmaster Assassin), is possible, but not very probable nor professional. You should have character development.

[Lynneiah]

Starting off a character as a god (or in your case Elite Shadowmaster Assassin), is possible, but not very probable nor professional. You should have character development.

Ideally, yes. However, master assassins can have character development as well, and if the backstory is convincing enough... *shrugs*