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  1. #201
    Quote Originally Posted by Yizu View Post
    Im pretty sure 4 modes is not permanent. They are adding flex this tier as a separate mode to test it. They are prolly gonna remove lfr or implement flex on normal modes when they remove it.
    Quote Originally Posted by xanzul View Post
    No they are NOT. Blizzard has never ever said any such thing. Mods seriously need to start cracking down on this crap. I'm nearly certain there is a quote on the very front page of the site or on the next page from a Blizzard dev stating the complete opposite of what you said. STOP.
    is this what your referring to?

    You mentioned in another interview that the flexible raid technology could be applied to other types of content other than raiding, provided it didn’t need super tight balancing like Heroic raids. Do you think Normal difficulty raids will ever be a potential candidate for this?

    Yeah, I do think that they are a candidate and that is the next logical extension for us. That and potentially scenarios in some way becoming flexible. If you have more than two friends you want to bring along, you might be able to do that. I think those are the two most likely next candidates, but it is hard to make any promises at this point, especially because Normal difficulty raids are tuned more tightly than Flex difficulty, but we are going to try.
    How is that complete opposite of what i said? IF they TRY to apply flex on another mode then what are they gonna call flex mode then?!?! semi normal mode?! a lil harder than lfr mode? of course it will go away.

    Also if they want 4 modes a week, then why do u think they combined all 4 (10n 10h 25n 25h) after togc and wotlk?! They moved away from that model coz people wer getting burned out.

    The only reason why i included LFR as a possibility to get removed if flex is implemented on other modes, is because both LFR and FLEX have the same niche "accessibility raid" and with connected realms+ FLEX its possible to just have 1 accessible raid. They probably wont just admit this because LFR FANBOYS LIKE YOU will rage.
    Last edited by Ynai; 2013-08-25 at 09:54 AM.

  2. #202
    Quote Originally Posted by NoRest4Wicked View Post
    S I don't remember hearing someone say "We are going to lock our raid out on xxx final boss this week and skip a weeks worth of heroic gear because we don't want/need it".
    Extending a raid lockout is exactly the reason my guild killed Heroic Lei Shen the first time. Sometimes fights just take enough pulls to get down. And resetting every week is not always the best option.

  3. #203
    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    About 4 million folks took some "personal accountability" in this expansion and left the game. You got your wish. Those 4 million folks who weren't having fun took some personal accountability and left. Obviously though this is not a feasible solution for the game as a whole. This forum has a nasty habit of suggesting individual solutions to what are obviously systemic problems. While that may work for you (and I say MAY because I don't I've joined a progression guild that didn't require mods or watching the videos) it is obviously not a workable solution for everybody. In fact we really ought to turn what you said around and say Players need to seriously give the blame game a rest and stop turning on their fellow players when ever they have a grievance with the games design.
    I like how you completely missed my point and twisted my words around rather than actually respond to what I actually said. I told you that if you don't enjoy playing the game in a certain way then you should take responsibility for your own enjoyment and play it the way YOU want to play it. How you can twist that around into a "wow is dying" rant is beyond me. In all honesty if people like you quit the game then the community will be better for it.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Yizu View Post
    is this what your referring to?



    How is that complete opposite of what i said? IF they TRY to apply flex on another mode then what are they gonna call flex mode then?!?! semi normal mode?! a lil harder than lfr mode? of course it will go away.

    Also if they want 4 modes a week, then why do u think they combined all 4 (10n 10h 25n 25h) after togc and wotlk?! They moved away from that model coz people wer getting burned out.

    The only reason why i included LFR as a possibility to get removed if flex is implemented on other modes, is because both LFR and FLEX have the same niche "accessibility raid" and with connected realms+ FLEX its possible to just have 1 accessible raid. They probably wont just admit this because LFR FANBOYS LIKE YOU will rage.
    Blizzard has flat out straight up said repeatedly (even as recently as last week) that LFR is NEVER being removed. Just give it a fucking rest. LFR isn't going anywhere but maybe you should be the one to leave if you are this butthurt over people doing easier content.

  4. #204
    Dreadlord Icaras's Avatar
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    At the end of the day, you need to realize that each difficulty is there to cater to a different audience, the only person who may "force" you to run LFR or Flex would possibility be your raid leader. And frankly, even hen the choice to run or not run that content still rests with you.

    Me, I like that normal modes are there for when I run on my main with my guilds raid team, but flex is there for our weekend alt runs either if we need to catch somebody up or we're pugging.....or hell, if we just want an easier more fun time coz its a weekend and we're on alts!

    LFR is there for those times I just want to play by myself and farm up some gear for a missing slot, transmog or because I want to play an alt I don't raid normal/flex on.
    You must show no mercy, Nor have any belief whatsoever in how others judge you: For your greatness will silence them all!
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  5. #205
    Herald of the Titans MrHappy's Avatar
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    because game difficulties range from easy->normal->hard->Very hard except for wow which just went from easy to hard to very hard
    www.cherishyourit.ca MCTS - Win 7, MCTS - AD, A+, Security+

  6. #206
    Legendary! Spl4sh3r's Avatar
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    The only reason I see to do LFR/Flex is to either get Transmog gear there (because the color is different, and in the next expansion it is impossible to get those colors again) and for quest items if you missed a boss on Normal/Heroic.

  7. #207
    This is just more ways for people to play how they want. I don't really see a problem. I do normal on my main(s) and LFR on my alts. Why should that go away? Are you saying I am not allowed to have some time with my alts just playing and relaxing?

    I have read the arguments about how it kills guilds (if it did kill it, your guild was not strong anyway, sorry), how people feel accomplished (never seen someone who just did LFR bragging about how great they are), how there gear looks similar (hey that person wears blue jeans as well. I am so angry. Mine cost more, so they should not be allowed to have them! (imagine if that was reality)), how it keeps people from being out in the world (sitting at a summoning stone is not a city, but not any better if you honestly think about it), how it leads to a shrinking player base (did anyone ask every person why they stopped? My guess is the majority did not due to LFR. Game age/changing interests shrink I would think shrink s player base more then anything).

    I am sorry but none of the arguments actually play out if you think about them logically as opposed to emotionally. That there is the key. You need to disassociate yourself from emotional knee-jerk responses and think about how it truly affects you. I am going to guess, not at all. Because of that let there be more options (a 40man option, a flex option for all raiding, etc). Options only hurt those who fear change and fear is in many ways one the least logical emotional responses we have when connected to things that will not, or mostly will not, harm you (such as fear of change in a video game! spiders, the dark, squirrels, mascots, etc).

  8. #208
    @all who say you don't have to run LFR and Flex:

    Look at demonology warlocks in ToT. Lei Shen trinket with 100% crit really made them great, even if you only had the LFR version. So come this type of trinket again you will have to run LFR, Flex and Normal/Heroic to maximize your chance to get the trinket. If you're unlucky you'll have to farm for months ... this idea I hate the most. I don't mind the different difficulty levels, but there should be restrictions.

  9. #209
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryva View Post
    @all who say you don't have to run LFR and Flex:

    Look at demonology warlocks in ToT. Lei Shen trinket with 100% crit really made them great, even if you only had the LFR version. So come this type of trinket again you will have to run LFR, Flex and Normal/Heroic to maximize your chance to get the trinket. If you're unlucky you'll have to farm for months ... this idea I hate the most. I don't mind the different difficulty levels, but there should be restrictions.
    But they are all correct.

    You do not HAVE to run anything you do not want to.

    But people WANT to.

    People that complain about having to do everything available are people with no self-control.
    Bow down before our new furry overlords!

  10. #210
    Quote Originally Posted by krethos View Post
    People that complain about having to do everything available are people with no self-control.
    Yeah well or those people want to maximize their performance in a raid environment. You know a raid, not LFR. It's like if you play a ballsport and taking extra practice hours to get better.

  11. #211
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryva View Post
    Yeah well or those people want to maximize their performance in a raid environment. You know a raid, not LFR. It's like if you play a ballsport and taking extra practice hours to get better.
    Except those who want to get better don't spend as much time complaining. I can understand the desire to get the best out of your performance, but if this is something you desire, don't complain about it. You only did it to yourself. Realize you are working to be the best you can be and be proud of that drive. Don't complain about it.

  12. #212
    Quote Originally Posted by Sealbinder View Post
    Except those who want to get better don't spend as much time complaining. I can understand the desire to get the best out of your performance, but if this is something you desire, don't complain about it. You only did it to yourself. Realize you are working to be the best you can be and be proud of that drive. Don't complain about it.
    I complain that for the drop I have to run those bosses 3 times, 2 of them in a difficulty setting like little league or t-ball. That's normally a waste of my time, but it's a way to improve my charakter because Blizzard decided it this way.

    Make a lockout so that you only can run nhc/hc and one of LFR/Flex. Don't know why this would be a problem.

  13. #213
    I like having 4 tiers. LFR is for those who don't have time to raid set hours, who's schedule is varied. Mine was for awhile, I couldn't find a raiding guild to fit my hours to save my life. I raided LFR, I was grateful it was there.
    Flex is for those who have problems clearing normal, for those who have trouble with attendance or who have more than 10 in their guild to raid with, but less than 20. Also a nice helper with progression into normal if needed.
    Normal is, well normal. It's been around for ages. Those who can find a raid group and fit the hours, they can do normal.
    Heroic is for those who can dedicate the time, who work exceptionally hard for a lot more days than normal raiders.

    I think they all belong. If you can raid normal, nobody is forcing you to raid flex or LFR, you can forget they exist and just run with alts through them or ignore them completely. That's the thing I don't understand. No one is forcing anyone to run LFR or Flex, it's for those who can't run Normal or Heroic, or for Alts. I still don't understand why everyone complains so much about it.

    Those who can dedicate time to heroic and are good enough for it, they deserve to show off better gear.
    Those who can dedicate time to normal and are able to progress deserve it too.
    Those who can't find the time or the people should not be left in the dust. They deserve something too, otherwise why bother playing. Only so much you can do in the game outside raiding.

  14. #214
    Quote Originally Posted by ascari View Post
    They deserve something too, otherwise why bother playing.
    That is the defeatist, spoon-fed, instant-gratification-seeking bullshit that plagues the MMO market these days.

    "There are two types of guys in this world. Guys who sniff their fingers after scratching their balls, and dirty fucking liars." -StylesClashv3
    "Elo Hell is where the Ego is greater than the Elo." -Bystekhilcar

  15. #215
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryva View Post
    I complain that for the drop I have to run those bosses 3 times, 2 of them in a difficulty setting like little league or t-ball. That's normally a waste of my time, but it's a way to improve my charakter because Blizzard decided it this way.

    Make a lockout so that you only can run nhc/hc and one of LFR/Flex. Don't know why this would be a problem.
    So your problem is that since Blizzard is giving you more chances to try and improve your character, you feel that you need to regardless of free will and the ability to make a decision to do otherwise? Those who truly want to be the best work at it. They work at it no matter how much time it takes. It is part of the process to be the best.

    Since you brought up the sports analogy, do you think the top athletes asked for less possible opportunities to get better even if it is easy or focused on fundamentals as they developed? They got to the top by doing everything possible, no matter the time or the relative ease it might involve.

    Honestly it sounds like you either want gear handed to you from the top tier so you don't have to grind for things anymore or that you lack enough will power to stop doing things you don't want. For the first I would say get over it, for the second I would seek help, since any addiction to a game that prevents you from stopping when you don't want to do something is possibly a problem that only a profession could assist you with. Either is not an attitude becoming of a "top performing" player.

  16. #216
    Seriously OP have you even looked at the ilevels of the gear in LFR! In case you haven't seen

    ToT Valor and normal gear 522
    LFR 528
    Timeless isle 536
    Flex 540
    Normal 553
    Heroic 566

    Seriously your time would be better spent dicking around on the timeless isle rather then LFR the gaps are so god damn big. Your talking a 44ilevl diffrence bettwen LFR and heroic and a 25 ilevel difference between normal and LFR.

    That's almost a 2 tier jump in power just from normal modes. If you were doing any sort of raiding your raid leader would make you do flex instead of LFR as its almost next to pointless due to the gear gap.

  17. #217
    Quote Originally Posted by Toxigen View Post
    That is the defeatist, spoon-fed, instant-gratification-seeking bullshit that plagues the MMO market these days.
    Dude, why does it bother you so much? You don't have to do it, most of the people that do LFr probably never cross your path anyway in your raiding guild. I don't understand the problem. It doesn't affect you in any negative way. You still have your heroic and normal modes to go through. The others are for everyone else who can't do those two difficulty levels. They pay subs, activision profits, wow gets more xpacs, more heroics for you to conquer. So I dont understand the problem.

  18. #218
    Because why not, really? I think it's an awesome system. For the super duper hardcore, it's a way to keep them engaged in the game when they aren't in their main heroic groups and an alternate upgrade path for whatever reason. For the casual, it's another way to spend time with friends. For the bad, it's a way to see content without dealing with the often frustrating experience of LFR.

  19. #219
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryva View Post
    Yeah well or those people want to maximize their performance in a raid environment. You know a raid, not LFR. It's like if you play a ballsport and taking extra practice hours to get better.
    First of all, virtually every person posting to this forum will not maximize his/her performance by improving his/her gear, because the gear is a .1 - 2% bump and meanwhile the elephant in the room is execution, which is more like 20-100+%. What you will do is improve your performance, but not nearly as much as if you executed encounters perfectly.

    Second, if you don't enjoy playing the game the way it's laid out for you, you can quite easily change how you play it, or you can quit.

    If you don't like running LFR for a roughly 4+4 = 8% drop trinket, but you feel you must do it because of peer pressure or inner compulsion, then I suggest you think about why you are playing the game at all, if it is just making your life miserable, or causing you to behave like a flaming asshole in LFR, thereby bringing misery to other lives.

    And although those LFR trinkets have great procs, the fact that they are missing a shit ton of primary stat when compared to other normal/heroic trinkets does make their value modest, or negligible, in most circumstances.

  20. #220
    Scarab Lord Mokoshne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragore View Post
    I just don't understand the concept they define Flex to be; to raid with friends and family. Why would one run flex if they have the numbers and just run normal?
    it's probably to do with the reason that if someone bails mid raid you dont have to stop, you can just keep going. People with family and RL don't like hanging around waiting for a raid to fill etc.
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