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  1. #1

    Tier 15 Feedback

    SO!!! we are in our last week of Tier 15 and i dont know about u guys but for me it was a blast !
    spend many hours/nights progressing on bosses and a few weeks back finally got to 13/13

    the thing i wanna ask you guys...

    What feedback would u give Tier15 and on a scale of 1 to 10, what grade ?

    i had alot of fun and this patch REALLY kept me busy!

    9/10 for me and i really hope SoO will be as good as ToT or even better.

  2. #2
    Dreadlord Choice's Avatar
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    It was a solid tier. It wasn't perfect, as I said in a previous thread, you could cut about 1/3 of the fights and it would have had no effect on the raid at all.

    Ra-den was a monumental failure from the QA/internal testing departments to let the fight ship like that. Hopefully it'll be a horror story for future internal testing.

    Other than that, it had a good progression curve and Lei Shen made for one of the best end bosses in the game's history. Very carefully designed fight.

  3. #3
    I am Murloc! Raiju's Avatar
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    Aesthetically I didn't enjoy it - at all. I feel they couldn't have made a much worse attempt at a lightning themed raid. Whenever I'm playing other games (and in wow I play enhancement shaman), I'm always drawn the lightning type effects because I fnd them awesome. I haven't been drawn to any of throne of thunder in that sense. I understand this is 100% subjective and probably not entirely agreed upon though.

    The fights were fun. Some simple ones some complicated ones. I really liked how on fights like megaera and lei shen there were multiple ways to do the fight and none were definitely easier, just easier depending on the type of players you had that night. Fights like horridon and council I don't think worked so well, where on horridon the fight is just a boring generic add fight in my eyes and council's main mechanic was zerged (like ra-den) to ignore it. I also chime in that a lot of fights could be removed and it wouldn't change the feel, they just feel like extended trash packs.

    I like some of the mechanics they strung together on the fights. A majority of them had something interesting mechanically although not always pulled off well (primordius).

    Overall 7/10. The aesthetics and atmosphere drag it down a point for me
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    which is kind of like saying "of COURSE you can't see the unicorns, unicorns are invisible, silly."

  4. #4
    Pandaren Monk Radio's Avatar
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    I'd probably give ToT an 8-9/10. This is coming from an 11/13HC who's probably going to be 13/13 by the end of this final raid week.

    It's a tier with a lot of quality bosses and some nice signature mechanics, highlight mechanics include:
    - Council as a whole
    - Tortos kicking (though not personally a fan of the rest of the fight)
    - Gastropods
    - Ji-Kun flying
    - Durumu Colour phase and Maze phase
    - Dark Animus in general
    - Beasts on twins
    - Lei Shen fight in general

    Also due to the raid size if you are a guild that raids fairly limited hours you have months and months of content to push through so you get to keep yourself occupied with progression for a long time. No fights have ever felt impossible at any point either, they had complicated but graspable mechanics and when wiping it was generally nice and clear why it happened.

    Downsides include:
    - the complete and utter linearity
    - Horridon pink dinos (especially on 10 man)
    - Tortos turtles and bats
    - the lack of personality of Tortos/Meg/Ji-Kun
    - weird differences in trash ranging from the extreme (horridon, council, meg) to the almost nothing (Twins)
    - the weird pacing of heroic boss difficulty (1-6-2-10-4-11-3-5-8-7-9-12-13 for us on 10 man)
    - the HoP factor

  5. #5
    Radio covered it quite well. Excellent tier with a lot of plusses.

    Downsides for me were:
    - Too big to be linear
    - Meg etc had no personality.
    - Tuning was a bit shit on normal at the start of the tier. Recurring blizz mistake.

  6. #6
    Mechagnome
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    Looking from the normal mode raiding point of view, I enjoyed it quite a bit. Horridon was overtuned, Twins were undertuned. And man, Horridon trash was horrible, horrible - especially during first weeks, when everyone was low geared.
    Best boss - Lei Shen. Last boss worthy. Really liked it, was fun.
    Worst boss - Horridon. Just too hectic, really.
    Also agree with Radio's points. Too damn long for single path raid.

    Overall...8.5/10, maybe.
    Old Gods made me do it.

  7. #7
    Moderator Sonnillon's Avatar
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    I would give 8.5/10, just cause this has been the trier where we progressed the most.

    I would reduce 1.5 point from 10, cause some bosses relied bit too much on certain classes (not saying that those were not doable, but having a certain class along made it much more simpler)

    6/13 HC myself.
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  8. #8
    Epic! twistedsista's Avatar
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    7 weeks ago our guild was struggling. we had some very good & all i can describe as very average players & were stuck on 1/12 ToT, with very little hope of getting past that with the very mediocre dps & one of the healers we had at the time we were constantly carrying. i was lucky enough to be made a recruiter for the guild & made it a challenge to get players in who were of a better quality than what we had (not very hard in all honesty). 7 weeks later we have a fantastic bunch of players, great dps, the healing is spot on & have progressed from 1/12 ToT to having finally downed lei shen last week on only our 2nd raid night of trying & all this on a pretty quiet realm.
    8 weeks ago i would have said why am i bothering. now & in quite a short space of time i can say i quite enjoyed it.

    *edit. forgot to mention the great pair of tanks we managed to get in too.
    Last edited by twistedsista; 2013-09-05 at 01:55 PM.

  9. #9
    Herald of the Titans Injin's Avatar
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    4/10

    (Normal raider here.)

    Horridon overtuned. Difficulty level of the bosses all over the place. Stupid extended time wasting trash. That fucking bridge!

    What HC's I tried were niggly and irritating.

    Too many personal responsibility checks and gimmicks on normal.
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  10. #10
    Highlights for me:

    Fun with Gastropods
    The return of the weekly raid quest
    The Tortos fight
    Council
    The scope of Megaera's room, and the fact that you could skip a boatload of trash with clever pathing
    Jin'rokh - I liked that he was someone we had met before, I liked his dialogue, I liked having an easy gimme boss in the beginning, I like his heroic mode
    Dark Animus - perfect combination of being in control and being hectic
    Ji-kun - I like the nest mechanic, I like that not everyone has to do it
    Lei Shen fight was a worthy capstone boss.

    I'm nowhere near 12/13 so I have no opinion on Ra-den. I look forward to hitting that up with a heritage raid in a half-year or so. I guess overall that's in the plus column for me - it extends the lifetime of the instance.

    Lowlights:

    Durumu maze coloration
    Primordius zerg
    Horridon bridge trash (why would it be such a tragedy to remove one banshee from each bridge?)
    Absolute linearity, lack of progression path choice
    Horridon tuning fail at launch
    Twins - difficulty placement fail, lore fail, generally personality-free barbie dolls who betray a lack of gender issue awareness on the part of the design team

    So I'd give it an 8/10. Swap Horridon with Twins, give us two or more paths through the instance with everything having to be dead before you hit Lei Shen, remove two banshees and you'd be looking at 9.5/10 level.

  11. #11
    From a Shadow Priest perspective:

    Fuck you, Blizzard.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Radio View Post
    (1-6-2-10-4-11-3-5-8-7-9-12-13 for us on 10 man)
    what kinda backwards... council #2 and horridon #6?

    First clearing this tier was, I'd give it a 6/10 a good raid, not fantastic but really what defines an ok raid for me. The only thing is and this may very well be a personal thing. I cannot stand ToT anymore. Have never had this issue before But I end up wanting to gouge my eyes out rather than clear ToT again. This seems ot happen with all instances that are linear like that. for example last teir you at lest had the mile points of clearing that raid instance which seemed for some reason to make raid last better.

    oh and DA was just an effing nightmare trying to assign everyone week 1.
    not relating to the raid itself RPPM trinkets need to die in a fire.
    Last edited by Blood fox; 2013-09-05 at 10:57 AM.
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." -Friedrich Nietzsche

  13. #13
    Grat tier of raiding for me. The raid overall is large and very intense, the difficulty curve (after minor fixes tho) smooth, fights unique and memorable.

    Best:

    -Durumu overall, especially the intense "ohpleasedon'tfuckup" maze phase
    -Jin'Rokh being a perfect entry boss
    -Lei Shen, one of the best end-bosses in history
    -Weekly quests
    -Some cool and fun trash, especially at the end of the raid
    -Great visuals in pretty much every fight
    -Amazing weapons

    Worst:

    -The amount of very annoying and time consuming trash pulls (Horridon trash, Megaera trash)
    -Horridon, aka "add fight" (hate those, really)
    -Suprising lack of Mogu/Thunder related content in the first 3/4 of the raid
    -Half of the raid is a sewer level. Decent one, but still.

    Overall, great raid, flawed, but still great. 8/10 for me.

  14. #14
    Mechagnome
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blood fox View Post
    what kinda backwards... council #2 and horridon #6?
    You're misreading the numbers. 1st boss -> 6th boss -> 2nd boss -> etc.
    Old Gods made me do it.

  15. #15
    11/13 HC, rating 8/10

    Good stuff:
    +Nice raid, great visuals
    +Lots of bosses
    +Most bosses are well tuned
    +Interesting mechanics
    +Durumu and Lei Shen
    +Gastropods
    +Weekly quests
    +Varity in trash

    Bad stuff:
    -Jin'rokh too RNG dependant on HC
    -Horridon and Council nerfs after you actually beat them (should have been hotfixes 2 days in)
    -Horridon HC
    -Bridge trash
    -No lore, could perhaps have a bit of RP or smth.
    -Unskippable tortos movie
    -DARK ANIMUS HC

  16. #16
    Moderator Nobleshield's Avatar
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    Speaking as a normal raider (just 12/12N): I'd rate it about 6/10.

    Some fights were interesting, some fights were garbage. IMO rating each fight:

    Jin'rokh: Good simple fight as a warm-up
    Horridon: Honestly, I didn't find this fight to be half as crushing as everyone said, but I think by the time I came back as a fulltime raider he had been nerfed at least once.
    Council: Way too hectic, too much going on at once. I would have preferred them being active/inactive to all up at once.
    Tortos: Okay fight, way too gimmicky with the kicking - if you had a bad kicker enjoy the wipes. Bats soul drain thing could easily oneshot a healer if the tank was a second too late getting there
    Megaera: Could have done so much more with the Lernean Hydra concept.
    Ji-kun: Decent enough fight I suppose. Didn't need the pools though IMO, but maybe they do something more than just damage on Heroic.
    Dururmu: I actually enjoy this fight, but I think the random beam factor screws it because if you have "that guy" in your raid, you're up the creek.
    Primordius: Interesting fight; we only use the kiting strategy so it's pretty intense
    Dark Animus: Utter complete worthless garbage. IMO worst fight of the tier. So many little things can go wrong in the first part that it's almost a crapshoot if you're going to wipe or not. If you ask me this fight should have been like Omnotron, with a few big golems that need to be killed with different abilities and then they merge to form Devastator--I mean Dark Animus with all the abilities of the others.
    Iron Qon: Tornadoes suck, but overall I like this fight. I like how the different Quillen give him different abilities
    Twins: Way too easy for being the second-to-last boss. I think the Celestial part should have been more of a key aspect of the fight
    Lei Shen: Great fight, but too much randomness/personal responsibility.

    The trash however was total shit. Horridon trash is just annoying, Ji-Kun trash is even worse, and Dark Animus trash is worse still. Nobody wants a return to ToC without any trash at all, but some of these are just obvious time sinks. I really liked the trash before Council though because it felt like you were facing an army of Zandalari.

    Overall I didn't like the focus on personal "Uh oh you messed up and wiped the raid" mechanics, and I'm rather sad to see that Blizzard thinks that is the way to go moving forward. A few of the fight gimmicks I thought were kind of lame (Tortos, Dark Animus) but some of them were pretty cool (Durumu for the most part, Iron Qon, Primordius).

    The worst thing about it, and this has been hashed out many times before, was the boss difficulty being all over the place instead of having a ramp-up to ease people in and give the bad guilds a couple of bosses they can get on farm quickly. It seems this is being addressed in T16 (although Protectors looks to be about as crazy as Horridon/Council were in T15, so time will tell) so that's something good.

    I also didn't like that everything looked mostly the same, but that's not a big concern honestly.
    Last edited by Nobleshield; 2013-09-05 at 01:49 PM.
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  17. #17
    I would rate it at 7/10

    Fight's were well done but the progression path was kinda off, most of the 10man guilds skipping Council and Meg for weeks and then there was Dark animus...
    But on the other hand Lei Shen was an amazing fight, shame that Ra-den turned out to be such a huge dissapointment

  18. #18
    Mechagnome -Raer-'s Avatar
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    13/13 25m

    8.9/10

    This tier was fantastic. Fights like H Lei Shen got old after a couple hundred wipes though...

  19. #19
    Only 4/13 HMs down. I'd rank ToT a solid 8/10.

    Lose a point due to it being linear. Sucks having to do the bosses in the same order every week unless you use saved raid IDs.

    Lose another point because of wacky boss difficulty curve. Horridon the 2nd boss was harder than most of the later bosses. Twins the 2nd to last boss was the easiest boss. Even on heroic you had big swings, Ji-Kun and Iron Qon are two of the easier heroics even though they're two of the later bosses.

    Still overall a really good raid tier. Can't wait for SOO!

  20. #20
    13/13 25 man MW monk PoV:

    I loved it. The only fight I couldn't stand was Primordius. The rest I enjoyed quite a bit. Heroic Lei Shen was an amazing fight, and when we finally killed it, I felt like I did when I killed Kael'thas the first time.

    Hopefully Siege is just as good.

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