What spec are you starting 5.4 with

[Phair]

It's looking like Arc for progression, frost for when I actually want to have fun.

[Polarthief]

I chose to be a guild leader of a 11/13H guild who doesn't ask for anyone to play any spec. We have a holy priest, a marks hunter, and two frost mages.

We're happy. We're a minority, but we're happy.

PS: The reason we're 11/13H and not 13/13H has nothing to do with specs.

Well duh, it's because you have retards in your team, just like mine.



(8% Best wipe ;_; )

- - - Updated - - -

Only bad guilds wipe at 1-3%.

Fix't.

Good guilds will kill it. Bad guilds will wipe to an enrage timer, but still be good enough to not die to mechanics (they just have shit DPS).

Guilds that can't kill it aren't necessarily bad, but they just have a few idiots who wipe the raid.

[Kenbud]

Good guilds will kill it. Bad guilds will wipe to an enrage timer, but still be good enough to not die to mechanics (they just have shit DPS).

Guilds that can't kill it aren't necessarily bad, but they just have a few idiots who wipe the raid.

I like Akraens better, I laughed and cried inside at the same time. Good guilds die to enrage timers during early progression due to them being under geared. Bad guild die to enrage 3 month into content mostly because half the raid dies to anima font...I mean mechanics.

[Polarthief]

I like Akraens better, I laughed and cried inside at the same time. Good guilds die to enrage timers during early progression due to them being under geared. Bad guild die to enrage 3 month into content mostly because half the raid dies to anima font...I mean mechanics.

Oh well yeah during the first few weeks, good guilds will die to enrage. I thought he meant NOWADAYS, good guilds die at 1-2%.

Lol Anima Font. I die to Matter Swap even though I'm always near the center. I swear, it's like someone's intentionally doing that to me every week ;_;

[Deleted]

I dont understand how anybody can play frost in a heroic progression guild knowing its wwwwaaaaayyyyy behind the other 2 specs..

Frost was stronger at the beginning of the progress. Item level during progression depends a lot. Fire and Arcane are crushing meters, because now nearly everybody got meta gem, cloak and ilvl 545+. Most Frost Mages I know progressed without meta gem, cloak and ilvl between 510 and 535 or they aren´t hardcore enough, so dps is not really an issue.

[Akraen]

I like Akraens better, I laughed and cried inside at the same time. Good guilds die to enrage timers during early progression due to them being under geared. Bad guild die to enrage 3 month into content mostly because half the raid dies to anima font...I mean mechanics.

Yep this is what I meant.

For year after year after grueling year I've dealt with 10-15 good players and 10-15 mediocre to absolute crap players. I can't recall Natural Order ever having DPS problems in 25-man heroics. It's easy to find people who know how to DPS. Add mechanics to the mix and it all falls apart. So I resolved at the beginning of this expansion I'd play frost in my guild until the day when people in the guild would outdps me while doing mechanics.

Still waiting...

[biermanjason]

- - - Updated - - -

Frost was stronger at the beginning of the progress. Item level during progression depends a lot. Fire and Arcane are crushing meters, because now nearly everybody got meta gem, cloak and ilvl 545+. Most Frost Mages I know progressed without meta gem, cloak and ilvl between 510 and 535 or they aren´t hardcore enough, so dps is not really an issue.

your full BIS so your a "hardcore" raider. I dont understand raid leaders letting you into a progression raid , knowing that you could be doing 15%+ more damage.

[Kenbud]

- - - Updated - - -

your full BIS so your a "hardcore" raider. I dont understand raid leaders letting you into a progression raid , knowing that you could be doing 15%+ more damage.

Frost wasn't 15% or more behind during progression, its only like that now with how high the ilvls are and when I say progression I mean like weeks 2-10 with 510 ilvls doing heroics. The gap starts to come around the 530s and is very apparent at the 540s. So if you are still in normals or early heroics you are not a hardcore raider and frost will still preform very well. And now most people have stuff on farm do much that they give zero fucks and you play whatever you want to play.

[Yizu]

- - - Updated - - -


your full BIS so your a "hardcore" raider. I dont understand raid leaders letting you into a progression raid , knowing that you could be doing 15%+ more damage.

if your "progression raid" is more than ilvl 530 i dont think the frost mage is the reason why you cant down a heroic boss

[Deleted]

- - - Updated - - -



your full BIS so your a "hardcore" raider. I dont understand raid leaders letting you into a progression raid , knowing that you could be doing 15%+ more damage.

I said my guildies "I will do decent damage at the beginning, but the others (fire mages), will dominate in farm raids". First kills matters to us and I was in front of every other mage in my guild the first time we killed a boss (excluding Ji-Kun). Downed 11 with frost and 2 with fire. In farm raids, dps is not an issue. We do a lot of damage stops, or have twinks in our raid or we test different specs (so do I). Fire Mages rule now, as expected, but the day we have our first heroic boss pull in 5.4, I will be there again with the best progression, not farm spec.

[Deleted]

yeah yeah this story is getting old. there is a reason you guys are playing in < top 100 guilds and its not because you are the best. keep playing frost because nobody cares but dont write about things which are obviously bullshit in a thread about 5.4 specs. thanks.
i will be playing arcane and fire for progression depending on the boss.

[Vorticough]

Fire fire fire fire fire fire fire.

Hot DAMN I love fire.

Just WHOOSH BOOM CRACKLE.

[Erolian]

Probably just sell my first born child for all the gems i'll need to play fire and arcane depending on the boss + reforges

[Saegno]

yeah yeah this story is getting old. there is a reason you guys are playing in < top 100 guilds and its not because you are the best. keep playing frost because nobody cares but dont write about things which are obviously bullshit in a thread about 5.4 specs. thanks.
i will be playing arcane and fire for progression depending on the boss.

Someone sure sounds salty.(Just realized that's 4 S's)

[voltaa]

yeah yeah this story is getting old. there is a reason you guys are playing in < top 100 guilds and its not because you are the best. keep playing frost because nobody cares but dont write about things which are obviously bullshit in a thread about 5.4 specs. thanks.
i will be playing arcane and fire for progression depending on the boss.

You do realize that the guy who posted right above you who plays in a guild that's ranked 40th west (and played frost)? I can think of almost ten mages just off the top of my head in top 100 west guilds (and 4 of them played frost for ToT progress) who frequent these forums, so you may want to rethink talking in generalizations that way.

[NeverStop]

Yep this is what I meant.

For year after year after grueling year I've dealt with 10-15 good players and 10-15 mediocre to absolute crap players. I can't recall Natural Order ever having DPS problems in 25-man heroics. It's easy to find people who know how to DPS. Add mechanics to the mix and it all falls apart. So I resolved at the beginning of this expansion I'd play frost in my guild until the day when people in the guild would outdps me while doing mechanics.

Still waiting...

Take your 10 best players and go faceroll 10 man H Lei Shen. It worked pretty well for Unholy Trinity.

[Deleted]

I said my guildies "I will do decent damage at the beginning, but the others (fire mages), will dominate in farm raids". First kills matters to us and I was in front of every other mage in my guild the first time we killed a boss (excluding Ji-Kun). Downed 11 with frost and 2 with fire. In farm raids, dps is not an issue. We do a lot of damage stops, or have twinks in our raid or we test different specs (so do I). Fire Mages rule now, as expected, but the day we have our first heroic boss pull in 5.4, I will be there again with the best progression, not farm spec.

Fire was the best performing spec for progress right from the start. Arguing against that is plain stupid.

[voltaa]

Fire was the best performing spec for progress right from the start. Arguing against that is plain stupid.

10/13 of the world first kills had a frost mage in. So I guess Kuznam is stupid?

[Kenbud]

You do realize that the guy who posted right above you who plays in a guild that's ranked 40th west (and played frost)? I can think of almost ten mages just off the top of my head in top 100 west guilds (and 4 of them played frost for ToT progress) who frequent these forums, so you may want to rethink talking in generalizations that way.

Hey Ralikonik. Owned.

- - - Updated - - -

Fire was the best performing spec for progress right from the start. Arguing against that is plain stupid.

Making incorrect statements and claiming them to be fact is plain stupid.

- - - Updated - - -

On topic though, another week with no number changes for arcane so it still looking promising. Frost of the other hand is still looking grim.

[Deleted]

oh really? lets take a gander at WoL top parses

Jin'rokh - Frost : 365k Arcane: 455k - 20%
Horridon - Frost: 419 Arcane: 539 - 23%
Council - Frost: 336 Arcane 441 - 24%
Tortos - Frost: 364 Arcane 552 - 35%
Mag - Frost: 250 Arcane 347 - 28%

Do i need to keep going? I didnt include fire because we all know what fire's top parses look like..

Top WoL parses are meaningless, unless absolutely every factor in your comparison is completely equal and controlled, ranging from the group setup to the impact of RNG on the specs, since your sample size is so tiny that there's absolutely no statistical inference you can make at all, which is exactly what you are doing. I'm not even going to go into the sampling bias between the Arcane sample and the Frost sample leading to skewed results.

You just can't pit top ranks against each other and then make sweeping conclusions, it's intellectually lazy and unfair.

Making incorrect statements and claiming them to be fact is plain stupid.
.

Take your own advice.