Page 12 of 12 FirstFirst ...
2
10
11
12
  1. #221
    Pandaren Monk Myz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Belgium
    Posts
    1,773
    Quote Originally Posted by Kenbud View Post
    oh really? lets take a gander at WoL top parses

    Jin'rokh - Frost : 365k Arcane: 455k - 20%
    Horridon - Frost: 419 Arcane: 539 - 23%
    Council - Frost: 336 Arcane 441 - 24%
    Tortos - Frost: 364 Arcane 552 - 35%
    Mag - Frost: 250 Arcane 347 - 28%

    Do i need to keep going? I didnt include fire because we all know what fire's top parses look like..
    Top WoL parses are meaningless, unless absolutely every factor in your comparison is completely equal and controlled, ranging from the group setup to the impact of RNG on the specs, since your sample size is so tiny that there's absolutely no statistical inference you can make at all, which is exactly what you are doing. I'm not even going to go into the sampling bias between the Arcane sample and the Frost sample leading to skewed results.

    You just can't pit top ranks against each other and then make sweeping conclusions, it's intellectually lazy and unfair.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kenbud View Post
    Making incorrect statements and claiming them to be fact is plain stupid.
    .
    Take your own advice.
    Last edited by Myz; 2013-08-27 at 08:32 PM.

  2. #222
    Warchief Akraen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    SC, USA
    Posts
    2,127
    I never would've allowed this thread to exist. From the first page I knew this would happen.

    Wish it could just get locked.

  3. #223
    Quote Originally Posted by Dekadez View Post
    Top WoL parses are meaningless, unless absolutely every factor in your comparison is completely equal and controlled, ranging from the group setup to the impact of RNG on the specs, since your sample size is so tiny that there's absolutely no statistical inference you can make at all, which is exactly what you are doing. I'm not even going to go into the sampling bias between the Arcane sample and the Frost sample leading to skewed results.

    You just can't pit top ranks against each other and then make sweeping conclusions, it's intellectually lazy and unfair.



    Take your own advice.
    You can take WoL parses with a pinch of salt, its not hard to state a common fact.

    However what you can look at is this; even the highest possible frost parses under the best RNG scenarios thats happened to any frost mage on any given fight, they are still 20% behind.

    Thats means at least something

  4. #224
    Quote Originally Posted by Dekadez View Post
    Top WoL parses are meaningless, unless absolutely every factor in your comparison is completely equal and controlled, ranging from the group setup to the impact of RNG on the specs, since your sample size is so tiny that there's absolutely no statistical inference you can make at all, which is exactly what you are doing. I'm not even going to go into the sampling bias between the Arcane sample and the Frost sample leading to skewed results.

    You just can't pit top ranks against each other and then make sweeping conclusions, it's intellectually lazy and unfair.
    You obviously have no reasoning skills nor read my other post about comparing parses. Top parses are a sample of the best Players in the best gear having the best RNG. I use the term best loosely and hope you don't take it literally and try dismiss my logic using that. These best case scenarios show what a spec is capable of and although it is not 100% accurate its pretty fucking easy to see the disparity. So yes it is a 100% undeniable fact that in BiS gear there is a 15-20% damage disparity between frost and arcane. So before you spout off bullshit use your brain.

  5. #225
    Dreadlord
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Germany/BW
    Posts
    901
    I think we all know that frost has a serious problem with scaling. Dunno why you guys fighting about this topic. There is nothing in the spec you can go nuts with and that´s why there will be no frost mage with results like fire or arcane mages in 550 gear with cloak and gem.

    *Edit* Back to topic. Still no further changes, I think it looks like an Arcane tier.
    Last edited by citizenpete; 2013-08-27 at 09:36 PM.

  6. #226
    Quote Originally Posted by Akraen View Post
    I never would've allowed this thread to exist. From the first page I knew this would happen.

    Wish it could just get locked.
    There has been some actual good discussion but I will agree in that I'm growing tired of the same argument thread after thread.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by citizenpete View Post
    I think we all know that frost has a serious problem with scaling. Dunno why you guys fighting about this topic. There is nothing in the spec you can go nuts with and that´s why there will be no frost mage with results like fire or arcane mages in 550 gear with cloak and gem.

    *Edit* Back to topic. Still no further changes, I think it looks like an Arcane tier.
    Agreed just hope they dont do the hotfix nerf after patch business again.
    Last edited by Kenbud; 2013-08-27 at 09:48 PM.

  7. #227
    I tried to tweet GC several times about frost situation, he ignored all of them I never played arcane in all my wow life, so it'd be hard to learn the spec i never understood and never wanted to understand.

  8. #228
    Quote Originally Posted by IsrafaelMage View Post
    I tried to tweet GC several times about frost situation, he ignored all of them I never played arcane in all my wow life, so it'd be hard to learn the spec i never understood and never wanted to understand.
    Frost has been the 3rd best dps mage spec since at least 3.03, with only very short times where it was vying for 2nd place. There have been times where it has been within 5-10% of arcane/fire if you were to take into account more of a median dps that was controlled for by ilevel, and MoP has done well to keep frost at least viable, whereas in the past it was significantly hurting your raid.

    Frost mages aren't hurting their raids with bad dps anymore. They have no shot at top 10 WoL parses, and scaling of course is an issue, but you should be able to play frost through SoO without making your raid team miss a boss kill because your dps was too low. There were a couple of dps checks in ToT. Frost mages were fine on those encounters. They will be fine again in SoO.

    And if you really hate arcane and can't play frost, fire will also be viable as well. It's looking like fire won't be as good as arcane, but it shouldn't lag behind so much that it would cause you to hit an enrage due to lack of dps.

  9. #229
    Moderator Shangalar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Rijeka, Croatia
    Posts
    1,977
    Quote Originally Posted by Akraen View Post
    I never would've allowed this thread to exist. From the first page I knew this would happen.

    Wish it could just get locked.
    Your wish has come true. People have fell into exactly the same trap for the thousandth time and it's no longer fun.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •