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  1. #161
    There are so many wrong informations here that it's stupid. There is no detailed explanation of the fight between the old gods and the titan in ANY official source. All we know is that the titans defeated the Old Gods. Don't fucking make your own lore and say it's fact. Stop using Krasus's words that Sargeras would beg for mercy when Krasus said after that the Aspects would be able to defeat the Old Gods. That's BS. The Aspects were like flies compare to Sargeras. Krasus's speculations was messed up.

  2. #162
    Quote Originally Posted by Wildmoon View Post
    There are so many wrong informations here that it's stupid. There is no detailed explanation of the fight between the old gods and the titan in ANY official source. All we know is that the titans defeated the Old Gods. Don't fucking make your own lore and say it's fact. Stop using Krasus's words that Sargeras would beg for mercy when Krasus said after that the Aspects would be able to defeat the Old Gods. That's BS. The Aspects were like flies compare to Sargeras. Krasus's speculations was messed up.
    ^^^

    Also, every piece of lore about the Titan/Old God/Elemental War says that it was a horrible battle that went on for thousands of years, one where a Titan may have fallen (don't know if Galakrond retcons the C'Thun prophecy.). It was not some quick easy win for the Titans.

    And to give the best idea as to how strong Sargeras is. Archimonde, someone who arguably rivals Cata-Deathwing in power, entered the portal quite easily and early on. That means the power of the Highborne was strong; It took much more effort to summon Archimond in WC3.

    It took that same portal to continue on for days longer, be powered by Mannoroth and other additional demons, possibly powered by the Old Gods too (they wanted to summon him in there realm), and directly powered by the Demon Soul, for Sargeras to be able to ATTEMPT to enter. He even survived it collapsing on him (the ceased to be things is most likely retconned).

    So yeah, he is strong. And considering we have no source at all, aside from the very vague one i mentioned earlier, to have the faintest idea of how strong the Old Gods are, comparing the two is meaningless.

  3. #163
    Quote Originally Posted by babo7000 View Post
    ^^^

    Also, every piece of lore about the Titan/Old God/Elemental War says that it was a horrible battle that went on for thousands of years, one where a Titan may have fallen (don't know if Galakrond retcons the C'Thun prophecy.). It was not some quick easy win for the Titans.

    And to give the best idea as to how strong Sargeras is. Archimonde, someone who arguably rivals Cata-Deathwing in power, entered the portal quite easily and early on. That means the power of the Highborne was strong; It took much more effort to summon Archimond in WC3.

    It took that same portal to continue on for days longer, be powered by Mannoroth and other additional demons, possibly powered by the Old Gods too (they wanted to summon him in there realm), and directly powered by the Demon Soul, for Sargeras to be able to ATTEMPT to enter. He even survived it collapsing on him (the ceased to be things is most likely retconned).

    So yeah, he is strong. And considering we have no source at all, aside from the very vague one i mentioned earlier, to have the faintest idea of how strong the Old Gods are, comparing the two is meaningless.
    The ceased to be bit applied only in that he was took away for a while. It was explained otherwise if he was free to come back he'd just come back in no time to attack again. They used it as a way of saying heres a big bad guy but hes not around at the moment but who knows when he will be back \o/

  4. #164
    High Overlord FraQture's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hitei View Post
    He'd certainly win a a round of fisticuffs.
    But I think in terms of actual "power" the Old Gods are probably stronger. They're able to corrupt and unmake the Titan's work, and the Titans seem to be rather unable to successfully contain them... And Sargeras is a Titan after all, albeit a strong one. So I think Sarggie could beat them up, but if you put an old god and the dark titan in a room, eventually he'd gone insane and start listening to the voices.
    This is correct. Remember that it took the enitre Pantheon to subdue the Old gods. They only managed to kill on or 2 (correct me if I'm wrong), and a Titan fell aswell.

  5. #165
    Quote Originally Posted by Hitei View Post
    Pretty sure C'thun was "fully dead" in AQ40 too. Look how that worked out.
    Only if you dimiss the WoW Comic in which his "corpse" was still giving Cho'gall orders to capture/kill Me'dan.
    His little fleshy avatar might have been killed, but we didn't totally terminate him.

  6. #166
    Legendary! TJ's Avatar
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    Sargeras would obliterate Azeroth. He wouldn't free the Old Gods since he has no reason to, they couldn't turn him into a pawn, either, since he could faceroll them.

  7. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by FraQture View Post
    This is correct. Remember that it took the enitre Pantheon to subdue the Old gods. They only managed to kill on or 2 (correct me if I'm wrong), and a Titan fell aswell.
    Well, we only know of 1 fallen Old God, Y'shaarj, if the remaining unknown presumably 5th Old God also fell, or is still alive but showing no signs and just gathering power, we don't know.

  8. #168
    Legendary! TJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wildmoon View Post
    There are so many wrong informations here that it's stupid. There is no detailed explanation of the fight between the old gods and the titan in ANY official source. All we know is that the titans defeated the Old Gods. Don't fucking make your own lore and say it's fact. Stop using Krasus's words that Sargeras would beg for mercy when Krasus said after that the Aspects would be able to defeat the Old Gods. That's BS. The Aspects were like flies compare to Sargeras. Krasus's speculations was messed up.
    Cannot emphasise this enough. It feels like whenever a Sargeras vs Old Gods threads comes up that I'm the one that's always spamming that.

  9. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by TJ View Post
    Cannot emphasise this enough. It feels like whenever a Sargeras vs Old Gods threads comes up that I'm the one that's always spamming that.
    To add to that, Krasus also said there are only 3 Old Gods on Azeroth, whilst we can count 4, one of them is dead though, and it's said in the WC3 manual that there's a total of 5.

    EDIT: War of the Ancients trilogy reads that 3 of them are actively trying to escape their prison, which we know; Yogg, C'thun and N'zoth.

    Y'shaarj is dead but the 5th Old God which we don't know about might not be.
    Last edited by Insarius; 2013-08-22 at 12:42 PM.

  10. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by FraQture View Post
    This is correct. Remember that it took the enitre Pantheon to subdue the Old gods. They only managed to kill on or 2 (correct me if I'm wrong), and a Titan fell aswell.
    No, just no. Subduing is MUCH harder than directly killing, people always say "IT TOOK THE WHOLE PANTHEON TO BEAT THE OLD GODS, SARGERAS IS ONLY 1, HE WOULDN'T DO ANYTHING" but it's simply not true since they had to chain these huge creatures beneath the surface against their will and countless armies. Similar to how it took the Old Gods thousands of years to corrupt Deathwing, would you say they're less powerful because they didn't kill him straight away and show their power? Deathwing in comparison to Sargeras, also... Please don't relate chaining them to their actual power because they could easily destroy all of the Old Gods without breaking a sweat. If they wanted to, they could kill them instantly. They don't due to the fact that it would destroy Azeroth, and that's not what they want.

    Sargeras was the Titan's greatest warrior, and was likely to be the most powerful (bar Aman'Thul (unknown since there is so much information missing)). Since "joining the dark side" he's also gained more abilities and knowledge, not to mention a colossal army and very powerful subordinates. He could even be more powerful than he was previously. Although, he doesn't have the most powerful weapon in the universe anymore and only has half, whether that would outweigh the new powers he's learned, we don't know. Even though it's just speculation, my money and probably the smart money is on Sargeras over the Old Gods. What could they honestly do to him since they rely heavily on corruption and mind control. It took them thousands of years to corrupt Deathwing who is a cockroach (if even that) in comparison.

    Just my thoughts.

  11. #171
    Scarab Lord UnifiedDivide's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FraQture View Post
    This is correct. Remember that it took the enitre Pantheon to subdue the Old gods. They only managed to kill on or 2 (correct me if I'm wrong), and a Titan fell aswell.
    Dave Kosack said in an interview that the Titans killed many Old Gods, not just 1 or 2.
    Also, subduing and then imprisoning the Old Gods would have taken far more effort than outright killing them.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by TJ View Post
    Even though it's just speculation, my money and probably the smart money is on Sargeras over the Old Gods. What could they honestly do to him since they rely heavily on corruption and mind control. It took them thousands of years to corrupt Deathwing who is a cockroach (if even that) in comparison.

    Just my thoughts.
    The Old Gods don't rely on corruption and mind control. They basically just play the long game because they know they won't be going anywhere. They have countless years ahead of them, time pretty much means nothing to them. So they take their time and are less direct simply because they can't be. They do what they can while still imprisoned. The end game for the Old Gods is to be free. Once they have that, you'd see some real Old God power being flexed

    Sometimes updated...

  12. #172
    Dave Kosak also said in an interview once that hundreds of Old Gods were killen during the war (most likely lesser ones like the one in Twilight Highlands).
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=TPF5kGZ7mQM
    Go to 16:30 mark where Kosak says it.

    Seems only "killing" Y'sharaaj caused a negative development. Hence them sealing the remaining 4 "Big Bad Old Gods".
    C'thun -> Thought to be dead, AQ sealed during War of the Shifting Sands by the Dragons & Night Elves.
    Yogg-Soron -> Sealed in Ulduar
    N'Zoth -> Sealed near the Maelstrom/former Well of Eternity(?)
    Y'Sharaaj -> "Killed" & heart sealed.
    #5 = still unknown.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tanzlee View Post
    And Sargeras entering Azeroth is equal to the sun entering earths atmosphere?
    Think it was Chris Metzen who something along the lines of Sargeras entering Azeroth being 1000x more worse than Deathwing shattering the world. Not sure in which Q&A he said it though.

  13. #173
    well ingame lore it cleary states that the titans had indeed a few options on how to deal withe the old gods 1. yust plain out kill them but due to the curse of flesh thy would pretty much erdicate evrything else withe them to prevent them thy killed 1-2 of them and inprisonned the rest.

    like in ahn quiraj and ulduar . and lets be honest if you make a cage withe a beast inside that wont die easly then the cage will wither away little at a time and itl break free.

    to prove this the ahn quiraj bugs went nuts and were driven to war. and ulduar took longer becouse the gaurdians are more powerful then a mere bug so longer to corrupt. now the 3rd one i personaly belief has the naga onder its influence couse a old god shanged them into naga when the well was destroyed. and in cataclysm the faceless ones cooperate withe the naga.

    as to who is stronger old god vs titan = titan thy got a freaking reset button in that egyptian piramid of theirs- even algalon wanted to set the world of azeroth on the list for reset.

    as for sageras if he did at that time come trough the portal then i dont see anything stopping him. he would of anilhiated evrything and as for the old gods thy were stil inprisoned at that time killing something thats stuck in a cage aint that hard.

  14. #174
    Quote Originally Posted by TJ View Post
    No, just no. Subduing is MUCH harder than directly killing, people always say "IT TOOK THE WHOLE PANTHEON TO BEAT THE OLD GODS, SARGERAS IS ONLY 1, HE WOULDN'T DO ANYTHING" but it's simply not true since they had to chain these huge creatures beneath the surface against their will and countless armies. Similar to how it took the Old Gods thousands of years to corrupt Deathwing, would you say they're less powerful because they didn't kill him straight away and show their power? Deathwing in comparison to Sargeras, also... Please don't relate chaining them to their actual power because they could easily destroy all of the Old Gods without breaking a sweat. If they wanted to, they could kill them instantly. They don't due to the fact that it would destroy Azeroth, and that's not what they want.

    Sargeras was the Titan's greatest warrior, and was likely to be the most powerful (bar Aman'Thul (unknown since there is so much information missing)). Since "joining the dark side" he's also gained more abilities and knowledge, not to mention a colossal army and very powerful subordinates. He could even be more powerful than he was previously. Although, he doesn't have the most powerful weapon in the universe anymore and only has half, whether that would outweigh the new powers he's learned, we don't know. Even though it's just speculation, my money and probably the smart money is on Sargeras over the Old Gods. What could they honestly do to him since they rely heavily on corruption and mind control. It took them thousands of years to corrupt Deathwing who is a cockroach (if even that) in comparison.

    Just my thoughts.
    They rely on corruption and mind control because they're chained. The only one we've seen unchained was C'thun, who was severely injured and still regenerating. C'thun didn't use corruption or mind control. C'thun used energy blasts that hit for a million hp, at a time when having a couple thousand meant you were a total badass. He could kill the entire raid before they even went through the door into his room. He defined overkill. And all that was left of him was an eyeball.

    We can't compare him to the Titans because we don't know any details of their fight, and we don't even know how strong the Titans really are because we've never seen them fight at all. All we know is that when an Old God went down he took a Titan with him, and this Old God was presumed dead - hell, for a while he probably was dead in the medical sense. They were trying to kill him, not contain.

  15. #175
    Legendary! TJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UnifiedDivide View Post
    The Old Gods don't rely on corruption and mind control. They basically just play the long game because they know they won't be going anywhere. They have countless years ahead of them, time pretty much means nothing to them. So they take their time and are less direct simply because they can't be. They do what they can while still imprisoned. The end game for the Old Gods is to be free. Once they have that, you'd see some real Old God power being flexed
    Real Old God power? But what :/ They're not normal beings that fight with weapons or so, they're just big octopuses ;> They also heavily rely on armies and minions (judging by lore) since they don't melee each other in a supposed "civil war". We've also never heard anything of their supposed other powers apart from mind control and corruption. If they were so gifted, then it's likely we would have a rough idea of their combat skills, just like we pretty much know how Sargeras fights, just not the true extent of his powers. I guess it's once again down to speculation, I wish Blizzard would give us something solid.

    Quote Originally Posted by Drilnos View Post
    They rely on corruption and mind control because they're chained. The only one we've seen unchained was C'thun, who was severely injured and still regenerating. C'thun didn't use corruption or mind control. C'thun used energy blasts that hit for a million hp, at a time when having a couple thousand meant you were a total badass. He could kill the entire raid before they even went through the door into his room. He defined overkill. And all that was left of him was an eyeball.

    We can't compare him to the Titans because we don't know any details of their fight, and we don't even know how strong the Titans really are because we've never seen them fight at all. All we know is that when an Old God went down he took a Titan with him, and this Old God was presumed dead - hell, for a while he probably was dead in the medical sense. They were trying to kill him, not contain.
    Whilst the top might be true, that's only an ingame mechanic and is pretty much irrelevant. Enraged Lich King can hit for about 5-10 million with Fury of Frostmourne, if I'm not mistaken. He could also one shot the raid instantly if he wanted to, but instead chose to toy with the players. Ingame mechanics or numbers don't count as lore strength, just like when people say "Deathwing was level 85 so he's stronger than Kil'Jaeden since he was 70". Refer to the reply above for some of your post.

    True we can't compare, but this is just speculation based on what we currently know. They weren't trying to kill C'Thun otherwise they would have, he was presumed dead in the war and was therefore not chained. They chained the other 3 surviving ones and would've chained C'Thun too, but they thought he was dead. I sincerely doubt they went there with the mission to kill him, because otherwise, as I said, he would be dead.

  16. #176
    Pg. 239 CH.15 - But there were others {The old gods} waiting in growing expectations (for The Burning Legion to open the portal for Sargeras to enter Azeroth) . . .and once open (the portal) there would be no sealing it again

    Pg. 252 CH.15 - They felt the nearness of their freedom quickly approaching. How ironic that it would be one who had once been one of the hated Titans who would prove the instrument of their release! It had taken the combined might of many Titans to ever force them into captivity; after their triumphant return, there would be little effort needed to eradicate this single, arrogant creature (Sargeras) and turn his warriors (the burning legion) to serving their cause.


    Many Titans, few Old Gods, no effort needed to take care of Sargeras.
    Last edited by ronyc; 2013-08-22 at 04:35 PM.

  17. #177
    I have said this previously and say it again, blizzard told that yshaarj is not really dead dead.

    I have a feeling that y'shaarj is the true baddie in this expansion amirite?
    He is dead. (Source)
    How can Old Gods die if "They're outside the cycle"?
    "What is dead may never die?" (Source)

    mmo-champion news page 5

  18. #178
    Pit Lord Skorpionss's Avatar
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    I don't know, and I don't wanna find out, not in World of Warcraft anyway, I don't think it'd do Sargeras justice being killed by 10-25 nobodies... we either save him for Warcraft 4 or something or we just never fight him(maybe we fight an avatar of his)... because anything else would be unrealistic... how do we even survive being close to him since he has a 1000 miles radius immolate ...we'd be dead before we even get close enough to see him...

    And Sargeras doesn't corrup, he conquers. He doesn't whisper gay little words in your mind for 10.000 years to drive you mad ... he just fucking smashes your teeth in till u do what he says or die... + if he's anything like Archimonde he can fuckign grow as big as he wants increasing his physical strength...

    also In comparison to Sargeras, Mannoroth and Archimonde were as fleas.[15] This could be a reference to either power or height. as shown on wowwiki.

    So really I don't think we would stand any chance to even last 1 day against him if he is alone(which he never is since he can summon whole armies of demons and monsters)... People who haven't read shit about Sargeras or what he can do shoul keep to themselves really.

    As for the Old gods, their only real strength is that they can corrupt shit over long periods of time... that doesn't really mean much when you face a foe that isn't really corruptible(because he's already bonkers) and that can wipe out the planet with a wave of his hand.

    We really have no idea how strong the Old gods are physically or magically , maybe they're just big squids that can talk to people telepathically and only managed to kill a lesser titan like Freya or w/e...
    Last edited by Skorpionss; 2013-08-22 at 05:01 PM.

  19. #179
    Legendary! TJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronyc View Post
    Pg. 239 CH.15 - But there were others {The old gods} waiting in growing expectations (for The Burning Legion to open the portal for Sargeras to enter Azeroth) . . .and once open (the portal) there would be no sealing it again

    Pg. 252 CH.15 - They felt the nearness of their freedom quickly approaching. How ironic that it would be one who had once been one of the hated Titans who would prove the instrument of their release! It had taken the combined might of many Titans to ever force them into captivity; after their triumphant return, there would be little effort needed to eradicate this single, arrogant creature (Sargeras) and turn his warriors (the burning legion) to serving their cause.


    Many Titans, few Old Gods, no effort needed to take care of Sargeras.
    What's your point? That is not canon.

  20. #180
    Quote Originally Posted by Immitis View Post
    theres no evidence to show that the old gods on azeroth are old enough to have wisdom of the aeons.

    Are you kidding me? Old gods are not old enough?

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