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  1. #241
    Elemental Lord TJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caerule View Post
    Like him or not Knaak's books are canon, and have shaped more aspects of the WoW universe than any other author. It's the Roleplay Game books that Blizzard has stated are no longer canon, but the literature books are as canon as can be. In most cases, the literature seems to be taken as more canon than events represented in the game. The game is based on the canon, but gameplay takes precedent over lore.

    I agree with you of course that this is merely the old god perspective. They thought they could take on Sargeras with ease. They did seem to have the element of surprise in their favour, at least. It doesn't seem Sargeras feels his actions are planned and counted on, by another great force. We have no real idea about the true power of Sargeras. The Old Gods yet saw him as a Titan, with the power level of one.
    It seems I am wrong, I always thought Knaak's books weren't canon when it came to proper lore. Although, yeah, the point still stands that it was an Old God perspective thing and not an X>Y in terms of power statement, which was what the original person I quoted was trying to say.

  2. #242
    The Insane Aquamonkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caerule View Post
    Like him or not Knaak's books are canon, and have shaped more aspects of the WoW universe than any other author. It's the Roleplay Game books that Blizzard has stated are no longer canon, but the literature books are as canon as can be. In most cases, the literature seems to be taken as more canon than events represented in the game. The game is based on the canon, but gameplay takes precedent over lore.
    It's a bit tricky sometimes, though. Sometimes the books are more canon than the game because the game has to compromise lore for gameplay. The best example of this is Theramore. The novel is more canon than the scenario, especially the Alliance side. They originally designed the scenario to match the events in the novel, with the Alliance PCs assisting Jaina before the bombing. But they changed the scenario to take place after the bombing because it played better even though Jaina was actually alone in the crater.

    "You are in the scene. It says "Jaina turns to her five friends." And the Horde also has an adventure involving that. And that's you! I keep it very vague. I don't have genders or races or classes. It's just five people who are helping Jaina out. You get to be there. That's going to be pretty cool, and I think that may make people like Theramore a lot more. Because they're part of it now."
    --Christie Golden

    Blizzard bounced back and forth between when to set the Alliance scenario. They chose to make it after the bombing because they thought it made for the best gameplay. WoW is a game, gameplay is king.
    Originally Posted by Dave Kosak
    Any chance of a complete redo of the theramore alliance side scenario to more closely match the events of the book?
    Theramore went through several revisions. The version that took place 'during' the book was less fun, and was scrapped. (Source)
    Originally Posted by Ghostcrawler
    Sometimes it's too obv how little you care about the story/lore of the game.
    We care ENORMOUSLY about the story and lore. But we care about gameplay more. (Source)

  3. #243
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    Quote Originally Posted by TJ View Post
    It seems I am wrong, I always thought Knaak's books weren't canon when it came to proper lore. Although, yeah, the point still stands that it was an Old God perspective thing and not an X>Y in terms of power statement, which was what the original person I quoted was trying to say.
    The narrator says it not Old Gods. It also says that it took many Titans to subdue the Old Gods and it's not even clear if they were united. N'zoth as it seems was not defeated by The Pantheon and it's armies which makes him the biggest player in lore. Sargeras is small potato in this league.

  4. #244
    The Insane Aquamonkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronyc View Post
    The narrator says it not Old Gods. It also says that it took many Titans to subdue the Old Gods and it's not even clear if they were united. N'zoth as it seems was not defeated by The Pantheon and it's armies which makes him the biggest player in lore. Sargeras is small potato in this league.
    Narrated from the perspective of the Old Gods... There is a deliberate break in the text separating this section and the tone completely changes. Nowhere in the book does an exclamation mark appear outside of dialogue or internal thoughts (and there are a lot of them), therefore, this passage must also be from the internal thoughts of the Old Gods.

    They felt the nearness of their freedom quickly approaching. How ironic that it would be one who had once been one of the hated Titans who would prove the instrument of their release! It had taken the combined might of many Titans to even force them into captivity; after their triumphant return, there would be little effort needed to eradicate this single, arrogant creature and turn his warriors to serving their cause.
    The portal strengthened. The time when to usurp it fast approached. Most amusing, the pathetic little beings who fought the fallen Titan's warriors thought that they could take back the disk. Even now, the imprisoned entities could sense the dragons—the Titans' hounds—approaching the Well.


    It's still speculative. It's comparing Sargeras to the Titans who imprisoned the Old Gods. Sargeras was the Titans' greatest warrior (i.e. stronger than any of the Titans those Old Gods faced), but had left the Pantheon long before they fought the Old Gods. Sargeras has grown a lot stronger since he left.
    Last edited by Aquamonkey; 2013-08-23 at 10:02 PM.

  5. #245
    Elemental Lord TJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronyc View Post
    The narrator says it not Old Gods. It also says that it took many Titans to subdue the Old Gods and it's not even clear if they were united. N'zoth as it seems was not defeated by The Pantheon and it's armies which makes him the biggest player in lore. Sargeras is small potato in this league.
    Then the Old Gods are the end of a chip if Sargeras is a potato N'Zoth is defeated and chained, you're taking things the wrong way. If N'Zoth was left unleashed then there would be chaos everywhere.

  6. #246
    Scarab Lord Polybius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post

    They felt the nearness of their freedom quickly approaching. How ironic that it would be one who had once been one of the hated Titans who would prove the instrument of their release! It had taken the combined might of many Titans to even force them into captivity; after their triumphant return, there would be little effort needed to eradicate this single, arrogant creature and turn his warriors to serving their cause.
    The portal strengthened. The time when to usurp it fast approached. Most amusing, the pathetic little beings who fought the fallen Titan's warriors thought that they could take back the disk. Even now, the imprisoned entities could sense the dragons—the Titans‟ hounds—approaching the Well.
    .
    Wait...who is the instrument of their release? Where was this quote from? It must know!

  7. #247
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    Quote Originally Posted by TJ View Post
    Then the Old Gods are the end of a chip if Sargeras is a potato N'Zoth is defeated and chained, you're taking things the wrong way. If N'Zoth was left unleashed then there would be chaos everywhere.
    N'zoth wasn't defeated.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Where is N'Zoth? He was mentioned at Blizzcon, then was talked about in Dragon Soul. What is going on with him?!
    N'zoth is still lurking. The Titans couldn't defeat it... maybe someday we'll get our chance? Don't expect to hear anything about him in Pandaria, though! (Source)
    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Zelbert View Post
    Wait...who is the instrument of their release? Where was this quote from? It must know!
    The Old Gods were going to use Sargeras' portal to free themselves of imprisonment. It's from War of the Ancients: Book 3: The Sundering.

  8. #248
    Elemental Lord TJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    N'zoth wasn't defeated.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Where is N'Zoth? He was mentioned at Blizzcon, then was talked about in Dragon Soul. What is going on with him?!
    N'zoth is still lurking. The Titans couldn't defeat it... maybe someday we'll get our chance? Don't expect to hear anything about him in Pandaria, though! (Source)
    That is what I meant when I said taking things the wrong way. I'm guessing Blizzard meant the Pantheon couldn't kill him and not they just left him, otherwise he would be running rampant and basically owning Azeroth. Since the lore says "the 3 remaining Old Gods were imprisoned" we can assume he is chained. 3 remaining Old Gods being because C'Thun was presumed dead and they destroyed Y'Shaarj, this means Yogg, the unknown other one, and N'Zoth were chained.

    "N'Zoth was imprisoned by the Titans under what is now the Great Sea" is from WoWpedia http://wowpedia.org/N'Zoth

    I'm pretty sure that's what Blizzard meant ^^
    Last edited by TJ; 2013-08-23 at 11:48 PM.

  9. #249
    The Insane Aquamonkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TJ View Post
    That is what I meant when I said taking things the wrong way. I'm guessing Blizzard meant the Pantheon couldn't kill him and not they just left him, otherwise he would be running rampant and basically owning Azeroth. Since the lore says "the 3 remaining Old Gods were imprisoned" we can assume he is chained. 3 remaining Old Gods being because C'Thun was presumed dead and they destroyed Y'Shaarj, this means Yogg, the unknown other one, and N'Zoth were chained.

    "N'Zoth was imprisoned by the Titans under what is now the Great Sea" is from WoWpedia http://wowpedia.org/N'Zoth

    I'm pretty sure that's what Blizzard meant ^^
    Or he's too busy fucking up the Emerald Dream.

    That section of WoWpedia is speculation.

  10. #250
    Elemental Lord TJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    Or he's too busy fucking up the Emerald Dream.

    That section of WoWpedia is speculation.
    The speculation is to do with him being the cause of Azshara and being under the sea.

    "N'Zoth's name is most likely derived from Zoth-Ommog (who may have actually been created by the author Lin Carter) of H.P. Lovecraft's shared Cthulhu Mythos. Just as Zoth-Ommog was imprisoned by the Elder Gods beneath the seabed; N'Zoth was imprisoned by the Titans under what is now the Great Sea. Zoth-Ommog is the third son of Cthulhu; and coincidentally N'Zoth is the third Old God to be added to the Warcraft universe."

    This part is actually stated like it's a fact. It's the same in Lovecraft's story as well, which is what the Old Gods are heavily based on. If he was completely free then he would do a lot more than start the Emerald Dream, I'd say.

  11. #251
    The Insane Aquamonkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TJ View Post
    The speculation is to do with him being the cause of Azshara and being under the sea.

    "N'Zoth's name is most likely derived from Zoth-Ommog (who may have actually been created by the author Lin Carter) of H.P. Lovecraft's shared Cthulhu Mythos. Just as Zoth-Ommog was imprisoned by the Elder Gods beneath the seabed; N'Zoth was imprisoned by the Titans under what is now the Great Sea. Zoth-Ommog is the third son of Cthulhu; and coincidentally N'Zoth is the third Old God to be added to the Warcraft universe."

    This part is actually stated like it's a fact. It's the same in Lovecraft's story as well, which is what the Old Gods are heavily based on. If he was completely free then he would do a lot more than start the Emerald Dream, I'd say.
    Again, it's speculation. Just because N'zoth is based on another work, doesn't mean they are identical. He could be under the great sea and just merely be "lurking" but not imprisoned. As I just posted:

    Imprisoning the Old Gods is how the Titans defeated them when they realized killing them was so bad. "Consider the titans' defeat of the Old Gods. The titans are not gods, but their vast power allowed them to imprison the Old Gods far below the surface of Azeroth."

    N'zoth was never defeated, therefore not imprisoned.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Where is N'Zoth? He was mentioned at Blizzcon, then was talked about in Dragon Soul. What is going on with him?!
    N'zoth is still lurking. The Titans couldn't defeat it... maybe someday we'll get our chance? Don't expect to hear anything about him in Pandaria, though! (Source)

  12. #252
    Quote Originally Posted by TJ View Post
    That is what I meant when I said taking things the wrong way. I'm guessing Blizzard meant the Pantheon couldn't kill him and not they just left him, otherwise he would be running rampant and basically owning Azeroth. Since the lore says "the 3 remaining Old Gods were imprisoned" we can assume he is chained. 3 remaining Old Gods being because C'Thun was presumed dead and they destroyed Y'Shaarj, this means Yogg, the unknown other one, and N'Zoth were chained.

    "N'Zoth was imprisoned by the Titans under what is now the Great Sea" is from WoWpedia http://wowpedia.org/N'Zoth


    I'm pretty sure that's what Blizzard meant ^^

    shouldn't N'Zoth if we assume he is indeed not free and chained, not be freed by his underling Azshara? She is pretty powerful. Something doesn't make sense here.

  13. #253
    The Old Gods would have killed/enslaved/something Sargeras, end of story.

    Whether or not he could take on one at a time is another story, though I still feel an Old God could win, but to take them on all at once wouldn't be possible even for him.

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