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  1. #1

    For 10 man heroic, which is harder Lei Shen or Animus

    Question in the thread title. If you want comp it will be:

    Prot paladin
    Blood DK

    Holy Paladin
    Disc Priest

    Ele shaman
    2 Boomkins
    Detro Warlock
    Fury Warrior
    Ass Rogue
    Last edited by Kretan; 2013-08-24 at 02:56 AM.

  2. #2
    Lei Shen for sure.

    DA was only super hard because the enrage, which is not an issue 20+ ilvls later. If you make it past the setup phase, (both Massives full; all anima where it should be; all done before first siphon) you've probably won. Even when the enrage was a thing, Lei Shen was still harder.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Squirl View Post
    Lei Shen for sure.

    DA was only super hard because the enrage, which is not an issue 20+ ilvls later. If you make it past the setup phase, (both Massives full; all anima where it should be; all done before first siphon) you've probably won. Even when the enrage was a thing, Lei Shen was still harder.
    Yeah I wanted to ask because we just killed Animus last night and will have nine 3 hour raid nights to get lei shen. Just starting to really look in to the fight and get a sense of comparison to what we just did. Thanks for your input!

    From the little I've read, apparently Lei Shen is much harder on 25 man though?

  4. #4
    Well im a bit confused, you make it sound like u will either go for DA og Lei shen with ur comp? And you cant really go with Lei shen HC before you have done all previous bosses HC anyways.

    In regard to the question - Lei shen is definitely harder than DA. DA is very simple and if you pull good numbers its down in no time... Lei shen on the other hand require a bit more from everyone.

    Edit:

    My post was made before the above post, where I can see you just killed DA HC.

    With 9 raids it can be possible for you to take it down, but it's really about about the players you have and how fast they learn. Its gonna be hard, but definitely possible

  5. #5
    Expect 200+ wipes on H-Lei Shen before getting a kill based on averages from other 25mans.
    Expect 50-100 wipes on 10man.
    It's very possible to get Lei Shen before 5.4 especially if you are extending lockouts.
    The hardest parts impeding a kill are: Transitions and a DA rekill imo.

  6. #6
    Pandaren Monk Spacebubble's Avatar
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    If it was me I would certainly extend the lockout until 5.4 if you get lei shen ra-den is as little as 1 raid away and those cutting edge achievements will be gone with 5.4

  7. #7

  8. #8
    Yeah we are extending all the way till SoO drops. We will spend all 9 nights on Lei Shen if we have to. On this raid lockout alone we have progressed on and killed megaera, durumu, primordius, and now animus.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Kretan View Post
    Yeah we are extending all the way till SoO drops. We will spend all 9 nights on Lei Shen if we have to. On this raid lockout alone we have progressed on and killed megaera, durumu, primordius, and now animus.
    Just remember to save some room for Ra-den too :P

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Superlolz View Post
    Just remember to save some room for Ra-den too :P
    Ra-den should be 5 pulls max with 540+ ilvl.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by NeverStop View Post
    Ra-den should be 5 pulls max with 540+ ilvl.
    Hahaha Yeah we are average ilvl like 543. We over gear this stuff pretty severely.

  12. #12
    Maybe im the odd horse here but i thought animus was way harder than lei shen, at least when I did it 10 man HC, I've done 25 HC as well.

  13. #13
    Difficulty of Lei Shen HC doesn't differ too much from 10man to 25man... i only know very few guilds who did Lei Shen HC with less than 100 trys and these were pretty good guilds so saying 10man = 50-100 trys is pretty much a lie. Most 10man Guilds need 200+ trys too. Gear makes Lei Shen easier but not a freekill... DPS wasn't a big problem 2 months ago either. Only P3 is really easy now.

    So a guild that only recently killed Dark Animus will need 200+ trys for Lei shen no matter if 10man or 25man.

  14. #14
    High Overlord Sayier's Avatar
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    Animus was way harder in 10 man then Lei-Shen in my opinion. Lei-Shen was really quite easy in my opinion.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Liebchen View Post
    Difficulty of Lei Shen HC doesn't differ too much from 10man to 25man... i only know very few guilds who did Lei Shen HC with less than 100 trys and these were pretty good guilds so saying 10man = 50-100 trys is pretty much a lie. Most 10man Guilds need 200+ trys too. Gear makes Lei Shen easier but not a freekill... DPS wasn't a big problem 2 months ago either. Only P3 is really easy now.

    So a guild that only recently killed Dark Animus will need 200+ trys for Lei shen no matter if 10man or 25man.
    We did it in less than 50 tries, and we are by no means gods gift to the world.... Overgearing content = so much easier than 2-3 months ago.
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  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Liebchen View Post
    Difficulty of Lei Shen HC doesn't differ too much from 10man to 25man... i only know very few guilds who did Lei Shen HC with less than 100 trys and these were pretty good guilds so saying 10man = 50-100 trys is pretty much a lie. Most 10man Guilds need 200+ trys too. Gear makes Lei Shen easier but not a freekill... DPS wasn't a big problem 2 months ago either. Only P3 is really easy now.

    So a guild that only recently killed Dark Animus will need 200+ trys for Lei shen no matter if 10man or 25man.
    Not quite. This spreadsheet compares days between kill before lei shen and lei shen kill for US guilds 10-40 in both 10 and 25.
    https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B9Wz...UlhSmdCUTd5N28
    Average for 10 mans: 13.87 days
    Average for 25 mans: 26.7 days.

    Obviously this isn't a perfect metric, days on a boss doesn't exactly tell us raid times or numbers of pulls but it should be reasonably correlated. If the difference was a couple days then I think you reasonably could dismiss these numbers as not telling us much given that they aren't a perfect metric but the fact that 25 mans on average take just under twice as long as 10 mans says a lot. Another possible objection, the 10 man guilds in the sample are better than the 25 man guilds, if you compare animus kill dates this appears to be false as well, the 10 and 25 man guilds in a similar range killed animus at reasonably comparable times.
    Fierydemise
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  17. #17
    Obviously it differs between groups, but people are correct in saying that a lot 10 mans probably do wipe on Lei Shen in the low 100s / equivalent of a couple of resets as seen above (those who do it in 50-80 would have learned transitions quickly thus severely reducing wipes). Based on just reading posts and the time 25s spend on it, the 25man version of this boss is definitely harder, it's pretty delusional to say otherwise.

    It makes sense as well, with 2.5x more players who have to execute a boss full of personal responsibility you would expect wipes to scale in a similar fashion - particularly now where the DPS checks are not an issue (for the vast majority) this becomes more obvious

    TO answer OP's question as this has somehow devolved into 10 v 25 difficulty - Lei Shen is more difficult than DA for sure, particularly as your comp isn't amazing with the lack of immunities available. Make sure you go in with consideration given to your transition groups, have people understand the order of abilities in transitions (very important) and you should reduce the time you spend on it by a lot.
    Last edited by splinternz; 2013-08-23 at 11:43 PM.

  18. #18
    Very interesting in the days to kill thing. I assume with lockout extensions we should be able to get it.

  19. #19
    We've wiped a LOT more on Lei Shen Hc than we did on DA.

    I think a big factor is raid composition. We have a very fixed roster with certain bad classes for solo soaking and it makes a big difference in transitions. We get thru them smoothly 9 times out of 10 now but some classes really do make certain mechanics trivial.

  20. #20
    Lei Shen IMO is way more challenging, the trickiest part is surviving the transitions when one area gets a lot of stuff going on in it (you always wanna prepare for the worst). Dark Animus is still rough but after mastering the pull, the rest of the fight isn't so bad as long as tanks can manage the anima properly, people prepare for jolts, and everyone moves out of anima fonts. Lei Shen hits hard with just about everything tho and if you have a guy that typically under performs, this fight will expose that.

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