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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    There is actually very good reason for it.

    It should be as difficult to buy and sell guns as it is cars. You're required to register your car, why not your guns?
    Having a license to operate a vehicle is considered a privilege, you do however have the constitutional right to own a firearm that's why.

  2. #42
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lockedout View Post
    Having a license to operate a vehicle is considered a privilege, you do however have the constitutional right to own a firearm that's why.
    And that constitutional right is subject to regulations; ergo, a registry is not unethical nor illegal.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  3. #43
    Immortal Schattenlied's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    What about to cover all the costs surrounding gun violence? Doesn't that require tax money? It's also an aid to law enforcement.
    Not really, no. Most of the places with the most gun violence (and most gun violence in general) involve illegally obtained firearms, firearms that wouldn't be on that list anyways. So, no, I don't think responsible gun owners should have to pay a tax for criminal activity that has nothing to do with them.
    A gun is like a parachute. If you need one, and don’t have one, you’ll probably never need one again.

  4. #44
    Merely a Setback Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lockedout View Post
    Having a license to operate a vehicle is considered a privilege, you do however have the constitutional right to own a firearm that's why.
    That statement is also preceeded by "A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed"

    But people just kind of like to avoid the whole "well-regulated militia" part.

    Hell, the word REGULATED is even right in the damn amendment.
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Naxere View Post
    Won't stop the anti-gun nuts from raging against the NRA.
    The gun debate is one I usually don't throw my two cents in on, though I keep a close eye on both sides because both sides have some valid points they're bringing to bear. That being said, I do think (in this case, at least) the NRA's more or less on the up and up, insofar as the NRA's on the up and up, and the OP is reaching a bit to add another shell to the anti-NRA camp's stockpile, pardon the ironic(?) metaphor.
    Be seeing you guys on Bloodsail Buccaneers NA!



  6. #46
    Immortal Schattenlied's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    That statement is also preceeded by "A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed"

    But people just kind of like to avoid the whole "well-regulated militia" part.

    Hell, the word REGULATE is even right in the damn amendment.
    In order to be able to form a militia if the need for one ever arises, the people need to be armed to begin with. Militiamen supply their own weapons.
    A gun is like a parachute. If you need one, and don’t have one, you’ll probably never need one again.

  7. #47
    Merely a Setback Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schattenlied View Post
    In order to be able to form a militia if the need for one ever arises, the people need to be armed to begin with. Militiamen supply their own weapons.
    And as the amendment states, any militia or part thereof needs to be "well-regulated"
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  8. #48
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schattenlied View Post
    In order to be able to form a militia if the need for one ever arises, the people need to be armed to begin with. Militiamen supply their own weapons.
    And again, you're conveniently ignoring the "well-regulated" part.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by leafs43 View Post
    Joining the NRA is voluntary.
    So is using Google, Facebook, Skype, etc.

    Oh, but you don't like that argument.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Spectral View Post
    I do not see any plausible argument that there's hypocrisy here. I think someone doesn't really know what the word means.
    How about the fact that the Government isn't even doing what the NRA has been screaming about but they themselves are?

  11. #51
    Immortal Schattenlied's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    And again, you're conveniently ignoring the "well-regulated" part.

    No, you're just not seeing the point. A militia doesn't need to exist before the conflict breaks out. The point is, that aforementioned "well regulated" militia can be formed at any time to aid in the resolution of whatever conflict is at hand, just like the militia was for their war.
    A gun is like a parachute. If you need one, and don’t have one, you’ll probably never need one again.

  12. #52
    Merely a Setback Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Callei View Post
    The gun debate is one I usually don't throw my two cents in on, though I keep a close eye on both sides because both sides have some valid points they're bringing to bear. That being said, I do think (in this case, at least) the NRA's more or less on the up and up, insofar as the NRA's on the up and up, and the OP is reaching a bit to add another shell to the anti-NRA camp's stockpile, pardon the ironic(?) metaphor.
    Seeing as my post of all of one page ago seems to have been burried, here's a nice read about the NRA:

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post

    This little stunt isn't even the most hypocritical thing the NRA does or continues to do...

    To those who say "they promote gun safety and decry gun violence," consider the fact that the NRA has OSTENSIBLY fought to RESTRICT researching gun violence on a large scale. If people are truly interested in reducing gun violence, as opposed to calling some form of "let the cards fall where they may," the NRA is not some godsend... They've made it a point in the past to stymie gun crime research... (http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/26/us/26guns.html?_r=0)

    For those too lazy to click links:

    "Scientists in the field and former officials with the government agency that used to finance the great bulk of this research say the influence of the National Rife Association has all but choked off money for such work. "

    " The amount of money available today for studying the impact of firearms is a fraction of what it was in the mid-1990s, and the number of scientists toiling in the field has dwindled to just a handful as a result, researchers say.

    The dearth of money can be traced in large measure to a clash between public health scientists and the N.R.A. in the mid-1990s. At the time, Dr. Rosenberg and others at the C.D.C. were becoming increasingly assertive about the importance of studying gun-related injuries and deaths as a public health phenomenon, financing studies that found, for example, having a gun in the house, rather than conferring protection, significantly increased the risk of homicide by a family member or intimate acquaintance. "

    "Language was also inserted into the centers’ appropriations bill that remains in place today: 'None of the funds made available for injury prevention and control at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention may be used to advocate or promote gun control.'

    The prohibition is striking, firearms researchers say, because there are already regulations that bar the use of C.D.C. money for lobbying for or against legislation. No other field of inquiry is singled out in this way."


    Anyone that thinks the NRA "speaks for the people" is off their rocker. They're a mouthpiece for the gun lobby intent on doing one thing: selling guns. As many as possible.
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by The Riddler View Post
    NRA is a private organization whose purpose is to promote and foster the responsible ownership of guns.

    Government is a public organization who wants to tax, regulate, and otherwise restrict the freedoms of gun owners.

    Seems like a pretty big difference to me when #1 wants to have a list to assist and defend gun owners, verses #2 who wants to restrict and punish gun owners.
    a.) We tax everything
    b.) "Well-regulated" is in the Second Amendment. Guess you forgot or didn't know.
    c.) "Restrict freedom of gun owners" is just a worthless epithet that isn't true.

  14. #54
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schattenlied View Post
    No, you're just not seeing the point. A militia doesn't need to exist before the conflict breaks out. The point is, that aforementioned "well regulated" militia can be formed at any time to aid in the resolution of whatever conflict is at hand, just like the militia was for their war.
    The "point" being that the second amendment's reasons for inclusion are by and large no longer extant. The existing common law, however, favors gun regulation.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  15. #55
    I'm sure it's just mailing lists etc, but it is rather ironic. Especially since the first move of THA EBIL TYRANNICAL GUVURNMUNT would be to seize all the NRA's records, wouldn't it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Carlosdanger View Post
    "Defenders of the policy note that the NRA is a private organization and therefore its efforts to collect information on gun owners is not a contradiction to its opposition to a government mandated gun ownership registry."

    your counter argument?
    My counter argument to that is...

    LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tojara View Post
    Look Batman really isn't an accurate source by any means
    Quote Originally Posted by Hooked View Post
    It is a fact, not just something I made up.

  16. #56
    Scarab Lord Naxere's Avatar
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    Not this "well-regulated" argument again. Go read through the 1000 page Gun Control thread, it's been argued to death there.
    Quote Originally Posted by nôrps View Post
    I just think you retards are starting to get ridiculous with your childish language.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Naxere View Post
    Not this "well-regulated" argument again. Go read through the 1000 page Gun Control thread, it's been argued to death there.
    Apparently facts hurt then. Because the amendment says "arms", not guns. Where's my right to own a howitzer? I'd park that bitch in the front yard next to my home security sign.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by KrazyK923 View Post
    b.) "Well-regulated" is in the Second Amendment. Guess you forgot or didn't know.
    Yeah but to be fair, so did the SCOTUS in 2008.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tojara View Post
    Look Batman really isn't an accurate source by any means
    Quote Originally Posted by Hooked View Post
    It is a fact, not just something I made up.

  19. #59
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rukentuts View Post
    Apparently facts hurt then. Because the amendment says "arms", not guns. Where's my right to own a howitzer? I'd park that bitch in the front yard next to my home security sign.
    We can wash it while wearing speedos and taping it to put on the internet.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  20. #60
    Scarab Lord Naxere's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rukentuts View Post
    So is using Google, Facebook, Skype, etc.

    Oh, but you don't like that argument.
    I have no problem with companies collecting user data. It's the whole sharing that information with the government that I take issue with. Somehow I don't think the NRA is going to be doing that.
    Quote Originally Posted by nôrps View Post
    I just think you retards are starting to get ridiculous with your childish language.

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