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  1. #1

    RPPM Good or Bad?

    For most of wow item buffs like trinkets or set bonuses have either been on use or an ICD that typically procs on the pull and then right around when its ICD comes up but Blizz thought this was boring and introduced the RPPM system to a lot of their new stuff.

    Part of the "skill" that a lot of people have is lining up CDs with trinket procs and what not getting a multiplicative buff that turns their character into Superman for a few seconds. Also generally with a guild killing a boss the same time every week with the same people doing roughly the same things while the boss fight get's progressively quicker people generally have a time in their head for when to use CDs and when to hold off to use them at the end for an execute phase and then some of the skill involved was knowing when you can hold off on CDs to wait for a trinket proc and still have them up in time and get the maximum use out of them and when to just blow them since you'll get an extra CD for that fight.

    For every class except for monks so far the standard opener has been a huge part of our dps. Unless hero is saved for something specific to cheese a part of the fight or for the end execute phase people usually prepot, start their rotation going, pop CDs within 5-10 seconds of the pull and then hero is popped, people's trinkets are rolling, dancing steel is going and the DPS goes sky high. Which Blizz has said they don't like too much and think that too much emphasis is put on the opener.

    Now with the RPPM trinkets they really should be called random procs per minute. For most classes it's almost impossible to line up CDs with trinket procs anymore and if you do manage to do it it's complete luck. Haste has become a predominate stat because of the RPPM trinkets even though haste might not be the specs primary stat they want to stack and has really hurt classes like warriors who rely so much on crit.

    Personally I don't like the RPPM changes. It's added way too much of a random aspect to the fight where a person's DPS can swing so far from 1 side to the next. There's a reason why every once in awhile on the parses you'll see like 20 fire mages in a row who all got lucky and then a random dps class up there and then you won't see that random dps represented for another 60 parses. Plus you hardly ever see the same people up there multiple times.

    There's just way too much randomness to combat now a days. Peoples DPS can sway by huge amounts fight by fight depending on trinket procs. A warrior who stacks crit and has almost 0 haste can get lucky and get more trinket procs than a combat rogue who sold his soul to the haste gods.

    I feel like this RPPM change has taken a lot of the control that people are used to having that lets a good player really excel and a bad player stay middle of the pack. The people who get top parses aren't necessarily the best players out there but rather people who have good gear who got lucky on a fight. You'd think that people in the top guilds like paragon and method would have more representation in world of logs but they're virtually unseen because the top parses are all full of people who got lucky not people who are incredibly skilled players who can pull off those numbers repeatedly.

    What are your opinions? Do you like the randomness of modern wow combat? Do you think it's made the game less fun? Do you just hate it all together and it fills you with nerd rage? Do you think it's the best thing to happen to wow ever?

  2. #2
    Mechagnome -Raer-'s Avatar
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    RPPM RNG is one of the things I currently HATE about WoW. One pull I'm doing ~800k burst the next, maybe 300k. It's absolutely infuriating that so much rides on the first 25-30s of an encounter, and even then you can get screwed while playing near perfectly.

  3. #3
    worst thing they ever made bring more RNG to RNG i's like : Yo Dawg i heard u like RND so we put RNG in your RNG so you can get screwed while getting screwed
    the ultimate answer's to all rogue issues in MoP:

    -Reroll another class, who wants rougue's anyway.
    -Diablo 3 Sold 15 Million Copys
    -Haste will fix it
    -Rogue's are fine

  4. #4
    I found it acceptable when we were guaranteed a proc on the pull (guaranteed in theory at least), but overall, I hate that crap. I far prefer the predictable ICD. Not only does that let you sync it with other things, but for progression especially, I'd far rather have predictable damage.

  5. #5
    My trinkets always proc when not needed - like transition phase on Lei Shen I want trinkets on use (

  6. #6
    A lot of WoL is luck with procs and a lot is also setting up rankings or just plain padding, such as cleaving onto massive anima golems, cleaving both heads on Megaera, or tunneling Horridon.

    That being said, I really don't like RPPM the way it is now. Trinkets with low RPPM have a huge variation in their value because of more random uptimes compared to a trinket like, say, Talisman of Bloodlust which has a high proc rate but a not too great proc. Talisman is more consistent in its output, but the ability to game procs at the start of a fight for trinkets like RSC and Bad Juju causes them to blow Talisman out of the water. I like that Blizzard is trying to move away from this by buffing the proc rate on trinkets while reducing the proc duration, which should make procs less random, and by instituting a 120 second default time since last proc on pull.

    Still, I prefer ICD because it's more predictable and it's actually possible to line up CDs with them.

  7. #7
    Wild swings in damage totally beyond your control are not fun in any way. Especially as a Rogue, you can't really sit on CD's, much less hope for a proc to time them with.

    At least with the ICD system, you could track it's ICD and if CD's were going to line up somewhat soon, you could make an educated decision to potentially line things up or not. With RPPM, you really can't do that. The trinkets could proc back to back, or simply not proc at all.

    When they changed Fire Mages awhile back to be less RNG reliant, there was a blue post saying it was because:

    It feels pretty good when you get a lucky string of procs, but really bad when you don't.
    Apparently they forgot this lesson, and now all classes are subject to this whole RNG fiasco. One of the things I like about Rogues is there isn't a ton of RNG involved. The RPPM system is fine for enchants, but should have never been applied to trinkets.

  8. #8
    Lol guise how can u not like the RPPM? ICD is dull and boring, RPPM is fun:

    Jinrokh no proc in water -80k DPS = fun.
    Horridon no proc in last 20 secs -50k = fun.
    Megaera no proc in BL -3... o wait u can't do a shit w/ 1 sec ability lag anyway.
    Waiting for proc on Jikun with CDs/nutriment rdy, then suddenly realizing boss is already dead = priceless.
    Mr. Primordius not-even-worth-talking-about = fun.
    Lei Shen double proc on soaking static shock cos that last Rupture tick simply HAS TO proc it = fun.

    I think RPPM rly promotes good play and dedicated raiding.... just think of how many times u were clearing trash in 15 ppl or how many times u got roflstomped by some clearly-more-skilled-than-u 40%/40% hero and how much u learned from that. Or how proud can u be on ur ranks nowadays. Simply awsm.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Chult View Post
    Wild swings in damage totally beyond your control are not fun in any way. Especially as a Rogue, you can't really sit on CD's, much less hope for a proc to time them with.

    At least with the ICD system, you could track it's ICD and if CD's were going to line up somewhat soon, you could make an educated decision to potentially line things up or not. With RPPM, you really can't do that. The trinkets could proc back to back, or simply not proc at all.

    When they changed Fire Mages awhile back to be less RNG reliant, there was a blue post saying it was because:



    Apparently they forgot this lesson, and now all classes are subject to this whole RNG fiasco. One of the things I like about Rogues is there isn't a ton of RNG involved. The RPPM system is fine for enchants, but should have never been applied to trinkets.
    RNG is fine for things like dispatch procs or other random procs that switch up the game play. Rogues perfect RNG is stuff like coldblood that adds that bonus combo point where sometimes it makes your abilities line up perfectly and other times it's not as awesome but over all it's not a huge sway in dps like trinkets are.

  10. #10
    Very very bad
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  11. #11
    The Patient
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    I dislike it very much.

    Reason being it's confusing. They removed ArP back in Wrath cause it was confusing, and then they go ahead and implement this thing. I dislike it very much actually.

  12. #12
    RPPM = shit

  13. #13
    I hate RPPM. I think most serious raiders do, as well.

  14. #14
    Warchief
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    i dont like it, theres too much difference between getting lucky procs and not getting them, gamebreaking even in some cases.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Maelstrom51 View Post
    I hate RPPM. I think most serious raiders do, as well.
    Nothing's better for heroic progression than inconsistent dps and having to wait a fair amount of time for trinkets between pulls.

  16. #16
    i've never seen someone write ANYTHING good about RPPM no one likes it and blizzard is all like "LALALALALALALALALALALALALA I CANT HEAR YOU!!!"
    the ultimate answer's to all rogue issues in MoP:

    -Reroll another class, who wants rougue's anyway.
    -Diablo 3 Sold 15 Million Copys
    -Haste will fix it
    -Rogue's are fine

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by whathump View Post
    Nothing's better for heroic progression than inconsistent dps and having to wait a fair amount of time for trinkets between pulls.
    Especially when you don't wait and then people go like "why was your DPS so low this time around". Fucking horrible system.
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  18. #18
    The only good part about RPPM trinkets is that we have a very high chance of proc at pulls, but.. We have that with regular ICD/on use trinkets aswell.

    I absolutely hate it (I'm a damn fire mage, ugh) since I literally can't pop any CD until my trinkets proc if I want to line up a good "opener."

    Sometimes I have a 600k opener, and sometimes it's 350k (ilvl 527), while the end result is between 180 and 230k on a normal high uptime fight (like Durumu) all depending on that damn RNG.
    And even as a so-called RNG spec, the RNG isn't in getting good crit combos anymore. It's about the trinkets. Both trinket procs and meta gem in the opener results in an end dps that is so rediculously better that it's unbelievable.


    5.4 will make things worse aswell by removing the guaranteed proc at the beginning. (Not to mention the fire mage changes, but that's off-topic)

  19. #19
    I actually like RPPM. I prefer some variability. ICD is too formulaic.

    The real problem here is how powerful trinkets are.
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  20. #20
    if Haste made RPPM more reliable to the point it was predictable, well it wouldn't have been that bad.

    Since this is not the case, and they even nerfed the intial proc, i don't see how RPPM should be funnier than an ICD or an on-use trinket.

    ICD = i can somewhat predict thr proc and save cooldowns/pot to line them up and get better performance
    on-use = i can delay this trinket for the burst phase or avoid using it before tran sition to get optimal uptime
    RPPM = HURR DURR I PROC WHEN I CARE MORE BUT HEY YOU CAN GET DOUBLE PROC DURING FLYING PHASES
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