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  1. #1

    Destruction 5.4: Solution to Kil'jaeden's Cunning and RoF Ember Generation Nerf

    Seeing as how Kil'jaeden's Cunning is being changed in 5.4, I wonder why they would not just give us the ability to cast the three specific spells on the move baseline, and make Kil'jaeden's Cunning something else?

    Maybe Kil'jaeden's Cunning would be "Your critical ticks of Immolate have a chance to reduce cast-time of chaos bolt by X%, your critical ticks of agony/ corruption have a chance to reduce the cast-time of Haunt and/or Unstable affliction by X%. Since Demo already has molten core passive, I'm not sure what would work out for Demo, maybe crit ticks of corruption will generate X% more demonic fury?


    Also since ember generation through RoF is nerfed and they have not yet given us a "fix", I have two possible ideas.

    1) Change backdraft to affect the mana cost and cast time of Incinerate and the mana cost and crit chance of fel flame. This would make fel flame possibly a better choice when Fire and Brimstone is activated.

    2)Allow fire and brimstone to affect chaos bolt and let the chaos bolts cast while fire and brimstone is active generate embers. I don't know if those chaos bolts would cost 2 embers to cast or not.

    Any thoughts?

  2. #2
    dont get me wrong how is this fair to other classes ? this whole casting while moving thing is out of control and needs to go
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  3. #3
    Why give hunters and ele shaman all the fun? Why can ret paladins cast exorcism, judgement, and hammer of wrath at a distance while moving?

    If they are taking away the movement reduction and giving each warlock spec 1 ability they can cast while moving, why not make it a baseline ability as opposed to a talent, that's really all I'm asking for. They are taking it away from Immolate and Chaos bolt for destro, at least demo and affliction have instant cast dot they can apply when running, all destro can cast will be incinerate, RoF, and conflag when they have charges. It's really fun standing still casting a 3 second spell.
    Last edited by Popesickle; 2013-08-17 at 01:57 AM.

  4. #4
    Blademaster Lethl's Avatar
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    Blizz already said they are happy with the current ember regen without ROF. A fix for destro is idd needed, but i dont think this is a solution. I also got a feeling Blizzard dont want ranges to cast while moving, except if your a hunter. Ive never seen someone running and aiming with a bow, and neither should hunters aswell as all range. I think blizz would make the class more mobile, rather than making it a baseline, its not like we had any problem before without it, except affi might be a bit harder. But they changed more dmg into the dots, wich is good.

    I think another ability like soulfire proc, or something else is needed to make the destruction better without brining fillers abilities to hard hitters. It cant be a DOT, i want direct dmg. If i want dot, i would just go with Demo or affi. Incinerate and Conflagrate is doing shittloads of dmg already for fillers, and its not just enough to buff Immolate either. A filler dealing almost 200k criticals unbuffed and over 300k criticals with buffs and proc, is already high as it is. If blizzard just keep buffing those 3 abilities for balancing destro, it would almost make them hit as powerful as chaosbolt. But blizzard need to do something, i dont know what they intend to do, but i starting to fear for the specc. Either the specc is gonna suck, and not worth taking, or the specc would be very good at the beggining, and after you get higher ilvl, affi and demo goes ahead, and destro is left alone in the dark.

  5. #5
    Fluffy Kitten Siri's Avatar
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    Regarding KJC I'd much prefer it if it made Chaos Bolt castable while moving instead of incinerate. Fitting incinerate casts is usually doable, planting yourself to cast a Chaos Bolt while any kind of movement is needed is rarely possible. I feel it makes more sense for PvP as well, getting Chaos Bolts off in 3s is already hard enough and the reward isn't even that great these days. Not like casting Chaos Bolt while moving was ever the issue when it comes to PvP.

    Oh well, I barely play my Lock these days anyway but if I did, this is what I'd want for Destruction.

  6. #6
    Mechagnome lupii's Avatar
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    RoF for single-target Ember generation was never intended...so I wouldn't be expecting some magical thing where they give us something to make up for how we were using something unintendedly.
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  7. #7
    RoF gone from single target is fine, they just STILL have not adjusted the spec to a competitive level. Its getting pretty late in the game to do so which is where the angst from the community comes from.

    RoF having such low ember generation also makes 4-6 target aoe problematic in that you tend to go ember starved even in high end gear. Since packs like that are pretty common I don't think its out of line to ask devs to consider a better solution so we can still use F&B as a legit aoe without counting on crit strike streaks to simply sustain aoe. I've suggested a spellweave cleaving/explosion in other posts which could be an ember generation tool if the explosion hits did embers or just a damage adjustment making us less dependent on a continuous ember generation cycle to fuel F&B.

  8. #8
    Stood in the Fire sasofrass's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lupii View Post
    RoF for single-target Ember generation was never intended...so I wouldn't be expecting some magical thing where they give us something to make up for how we were using something unintendedly.
    GC has since started that he wants chaos bolt to feel special and not something to be spammed. it is now an intentional change and the only thing we will see changed will be the damage of the spells.
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  9. #9
    Honestly all casting while moving from non-instants needs to stop, and there are too many instant casts these days as it is. I miss the days where casters had to actually cast to get things done instead and kiting someone required actually slowing or rooting them instead of all this new nonsense where everyone has slows and everyone can cast while moving and the only solution for melee is to roll ranged.

    Ranged classes in general have become too powerful in both PVP and PVE. No downsides for ranged where melee have huge disadvantages sucks. Hell, the Monk dps spec is less mobile while dpsing than warlocks are because it has to stop and channel fists of fury, which is it's best and most damaging attack. What a messed up state of affairs.
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  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by sasofrass View Post
    GC has since started that he wants chaos bolt to feel special and not something to be spammed. it is now an intentional change and the only thing we will see changed will be the damage of the spells.
    And that if we're lucky, as the second "number pass" build consist of not a single warlock change.
    http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...TR-Build-17314
    Last edited by whi; 2013-08-17 at 08:04 AM.

  11. #11
    Fluffy Kitten Siri's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dasani View Post
    Honestly all casting while moving from non-instants needs to stop, and there are too many instant casts these days as it is.
    I would agree if we weren't talking about casts with a base cast time of 3 seconds. It's not at all reasonable to expect a cast like that to be usable in PvP unless one cast is absolutely devastating, which when it comes to Chaos Bolt, it isn't. Not by a longshot. The only problematic run and cast mechanic is pretty much getting fixed (KJC + Fear) and the others are either restricted because of a cooldown (Spiritwalker's Grace) or spell selection (5.4 KJC, Lightning Bolt & Steady/Cobra Shot, neither of which are particularly dangerous).

    The instant casts are the real problem but they're just the result of an environment that requires them. Either casts need to be really short, really devastating or the game needs to lose about half the interrupts and CCs as far as PvP is concerned and mechanics that force movement have to be reduced in PvE.

  12. #12
    Stood in the Fire sasofrass's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whi View Post
    And that if we're lucky, as the second "number pass" build consist of not a single warlock change.
    http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...TR-Build-17314
    ;____; maybe next week #hope
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  13. #13
    Who knows maybe they will surprise us with insane buffs *cough* internet sarcasm.

    As much as I think it would be a major bs move on Blizzard's part. I could see them just "forgetting" about a Destro luck compensation.

    I'll still try to make due in any case.

  14. #14
    Destro is good at 520ilvl so therefore the LFR/flex raid heroes are "fine". So to blizz its a small concern to fix the "niche" of top 20'ish progression raiding. I think truly fixing destro is not something they will do. The best we can hope for is a last minute half arsed fix the last week before live then ignored until 6.0 comes out with perhaps a 5% bump to something inconsequential for 5.5 patch.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Werst View Post
    Destro is good at 520ilvl so therefore the LFR/flex raid heroes are "fine". So to blizz its a small concern to fix the "niche" of top 20'ish progression raiding. I think truly fixing destro is not something they will do. The best we can hope for is a last minute half arsed fix the last week before live then ignored until 6.0 comes out with perhaps a 5% bump to something inconsequential for 5.5 patch.
    im inclined to agree, i remember in wotlk during icc when mages were OP as hell, and every1 knew it but blizz couldnt be bothered to nerf them untill next xpac and i fear it will be the same for destro except they need a buff, not a nerf. personally, ive always had an ambivalent relationship with destro and demo and i hope that destro atleast is worth playing in 5.4 since demo's dmg seem a bit wonky but it needs some serious love to achieve that.

  16. #16
    Epic! Nyxxi's Avatar
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    Have Destro spells actually been buffed to compensate for the lack of ember generation now then?
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  17. #17
    nope, there has been no compensation at all.

  18. #18
    Epic! Nyxxi's Avatar
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    So the spec that was already behind is now even further behind, huzzah...
    Quote Originally Posted by Crym View Post
    Spoiler: The reason Garrosh is defeated is because, just when he's being attacked, Malchezaar pops out of a portal, yells "yoink!", and takes his weapon away.
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  19. #19
    Haunt and UA are GCD capped, so casting faster has any benefit to that spells.

  20. #20
    Take a spec that is falling further behind as ilvl increases from 522 to 535. Pump HTF 2/2 gear up to a bis of 550 and watch the gap widen. Now introduce a new tier with ilvls of normal a few points north of past bis. Now take 30% resource generation (even single target, let alone mass/cleave) away from that struggling spec.

    That's destro.

    Now give immolate a 10% damage buff. Since immolate is 10-11%'ish of your damage its about a 1% bump.

    Feel good about destro's chances yet?

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