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  1. #1
    Keyboard Turner
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    Multi dotting help needed

    Hello everyone,
    I just got back to the game a couple months ago and I was doing just good as destruction but decided to switch to affliction because I find it more fun and versatile.
    Yesterday my guild started working on heroic Primordius and I got on adds duty and I was pretty excited about it but couldn't do better than mediocre multi dotting. I've been over the logs many times this morning and can't really understand what I am doing wrong, so any advice would be welcome.
    I know I don't have meta yet and am undergeared compared to the other lock but this difference can't just be on gear.

    Armory link: us.battle.net/wow/en/character/eonar/Ladhy/advanced
    Wordoflogs: worldoflogs.com/reports/wgvrhm4an1eehet3/

    Thanks for taking the time to read this.

  2. #2
    I'm not experienced with heroic primordius but im thinking that destro with the AOE range talent is probably going to give you a much better result. RoF keeps your embers maxed, just keep chaosbolting the slimes .

  3. #3
    High Overlord TheBGreene's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ladhy View Post
    Hello everyone,
    I just got back to the game a couple months ago and I was doing just good as destruction but decided to switch to affliction because I find it more fun and versatile.
    Yesterday my guild started working on heroic Primordius and I got on adds duty and I was pretty excited about it but couldn't do better than mediocre multi dotting. I've been over the logs many times this morning and can't really understand what I am doing wrong, so any advice would be welcome.
    I know I don't have meta yet and am undergeared compared to the other lock but this difference can't just be on gear.

    Armory link: us.battle.net/wow/en/character/eonar/Ladhy/advanced
    Wordoflogs: worldoflogs.com/reports/wgvrhm4an1eehet3/

    Thanks for taking the time to read this.
    Shouldn't really be doing anything but Destro when you are on add duty for Heroic Primodius....

    Stack Mastery, GoSac and MF...RoF as close to 100% uptime as possible, you will be able to keep FnB up basically the same amount of time. Snipe little adds with SB when needed...enjoy being top dps....

    Near the end of the fight you can also just feel free to RoF and SB spam the boss....

  4. #4
    Keyboard Turner
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    Thanks for the responde TheBGreene. However I am not concerned about min/max on this case, I am going to play to affliction because I find it more fun not because it's the best fit for the encounter. I would like to find out what I am doing wrong as affliction tho.

  5. #5
    High Overlord TheBGreene's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ladhy View Post
    Thanks for the responde TheBGreene. However I am not concerned about min/max on this case, I am going to play to affliction because I find it more fun not because it's the best fit for the encounter. I would like to find out what I am doing wrong as affliction tho.
    I understand this, but the fact of the matter is that hm progression fights aren't so much about what you enjoy doing. You are SEVERELY gimping your raid team by playing affliction on a fight where destro dominates it. You will not be able to kill the oozes fast enough as affliction to get the boss dead. Couple this with the fact that affliction needs time to ramp up. You don't get to apply an instant 10stack agony to everything, this need ramp up time.

    You serve two purposes as the add killer for primodius:
    1) Killing a shit ton of oozes so the people training the boss have as close to 100% uptime on being mutated. Once their mutation ends, they should be able to immediately get mutated again without having to move a lot.
    2) Killing a shit ton of oozes before they reach Primodius because he is going to do wayyyyyyyyyyyyyy more damage if they absorb into him.

    You just simply cannot do your job as affliction. If your job is to train the boss instead of oozes, sure you can go affliction, but you are not, you are on add duty.
    Last edited by TheBGreene; 2013-08-22 at 06:16 PM.

  6. #6
    I find aff plenty viable for primordius...just you need teamwork with your raid comp. 10m solo = yeah you probably should be destro. 25m or 10m w' some help aff is very strong. No rocket surgery just roll dots on targets from 3-4 lanes rolling MG on the kill target. Flash DS on the dying ones and abuse SB:SS to its fullest. Setup as a deep mastery build and hope you get lots of haste/mastery mutations. You'll find a rhythm to it and your numbers will be fine. You can swap to boss for a darksoul 20 sec just make sure you go back to add duty 30'ish (maybe 45 depending on comp/gear) so the raid has plenty of puddles.

  7. #7
    Stood in the Fire Zevoa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheBGreene View Post
    Shouldn't really be doing anything but Destro when you are on add duty for Heroic Primodius....

    Oh please.

    You can easily do as well in terms of dealing with the adds on the fight if you are playing Affliction properly.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by TheBGreene View Post
    I understand this, but the fact of the matter is that hm progression fights aren't so much about what you enjoy doing. You are SEVERELY gimping your raid team by playing affliction on a fight where destro dominates it.
    ...
    You just simply cannot do your job as affliction. If your job is to train the boss instead of oozes, sure you can go affliction, but you are not, you are on add duty.
    Bull... Affi is more than fine on this, and brings effective dps - ie it actually kills the mobs it sbss's - assuming you run with 3-4 dot classes covering the same area (25m), rather than a ton of unused damage going out on adds that won't die anyway.

    Destro can be fine, but just because its numbers are higher has very little to do with its actual benefit to the raid.

  9. #9
    As rijn said, you can put "useless" dmg out as destro or aff.....if you stack a couple dot classes in 25m or even aff + a good finisher in 10m its very easy to ensure kills. Sure aff can just dot but not kill the same way destro can F&B spray w' RoF on the room and not kill. This should go without saying but the further evolution of this discussion/strat is far more dependent on your raid comp than blanket theorycraft. Communicate with your RL and other raiders for what you can do and what you need from them to accomplish the mission.

    Destro OR Affliction both are good for that fight. Play whichever you play better...often a far larger differential figure than minute advantages or disadvantages "in theory". Just understand where the strengths of each spec are and how to use them.

  10. #10
    Destro is great for making sure that you can finish off all the adds that are low nice and quick with a sb. Affli wise just keep spamming that SB:SS and draining dying adds for shards and you should do fine.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by TheBGreene View Post
    Shouldn't really be doing anything but Destro when you are on add duty for Heroic Primodius....

    Stack Mastery, GoSac and MF...RoF as close to 100% uptime as possible, you will be able to keep FnB up basically the same amount of time. Snipe little adds with SB when needed...enjoy being top dps....

    Near the end of the fight you can also just feel free to RoF and SB spam the boss....
    In 10 man you can pretty much solo the blobs as destro, but in 25 you're probably better off going affliction. And GoSac to spam FnB, wut?

  12. #12
    Affli is more than fine here, just abuse SB:SS and drain soul dying ones.
    Use hero + Dark soul on boss to help with damage on that.
    Dot the adds coming from behind the boss, not in front.

    Sidenote: Why is your hit so low? Missing sb:ss is just wasting a shard, and well misses just suck in any case.

  13. #13
    Get raven. Great addon to keep track of dots + tidyplates.

  14. #14
    High Overlord TheBGreene's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Werst View Post
    I find aff plenty viable for primordius...just you need teamwork with your raid comp. 10m solo = yeah you probably should be destro. 25m or 10m w' some help aff is very strong.
    I am speaking to 10m, as its what I do. I will emphasize the bolded word...can be done with help....exactly....you made my point for me. You cannot do it on your own the way destro can and that was my point. Maybe they run 25m and I can just keep quiet.

    I will not speak to 25m promordius because I do not have experience in it. I would imagine you have a couple people on add duty as opposed to 1. If someone else is helping with adds because you cannot get them down fast enough that means they are not on the boss which is no bueno...

    Quote Originally Posted by Nephrenka View Post
    Oh please.
    You can easily do as well in terms of dealing with the adds on the fight if you are playing Affliction properly.
    Really? Last I checked you had 4 soul shards...4 targets at one time, obv not taking into the account nightfall procs. No, you cannot deal with adds the same as destro...not even close. I can guarantee you will not be able to kill as many adds and primodius is going to absorb way more oozes if you go affliction...without help from other people.

    Quote Originally Posted by rables View Post
    And GoSac to spam FnB, wut?
    Did I say that? Nope. I said if they go destro they should take gosac and mf...I also said they should have almost a 100% uptime for RoF and FnB....
    Last edited by TheBGreene; 2013-08-23 at 11:41 AM.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by TheBGreene View Post
    Did I say that? Nope. I said if they go destro they should take gosac and mf...I also said they should have almost a 100% uptime for RoF and FnB....
    When the OP says he is on add duty, saying he should have 100% uptime on FnB implies spamming it. This is the intended tactic as add killer, but GoSac would be a loss of dps as it adds nothing to FnB.

    And if you had bothered to even check the logs, yes they're 25 man

  16. #16
    High Overlord TheBGreene's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rables View Post
    When the OP says he is on add duty, saying he should have 100% uptime on FnB implies spamming it. This is the intended tactic as add killer, but GoSac would be a loss of dps as it adds nothing to FnB.

    And if you had bothered to even check the logs, yes they're 25 man
    Yep, meant to be GoSup...10,000 apologies...got me there.

  17. #17
    Not trying to negate people's beliefs or strategies here, but just wanted to give some input.
    I think it depends on your guild's strategy on how it deals with kiting the boss. If you do a circular kite, destro is going to be pretty good w/ MF since you can aoe constantly basically. However, my guild does a strat where we kite back and forth instead of in a circle, so the adds only ever group up when they get too close to the boss. In this scenario, we found it better to go affliction when multidotting adds. Of course this doesn't apply to the OP's situation, but we never need more than 2 multidotters per 5 lanes of adds. We only monitor 5 lanes at a time since the boss is kited close to the other 5 lanes. (In fact, I'm fairly confident that we're at a point where I could probably solo all 5 lanes...) Obviously, it's dependent on what buffs you get and how much gear your raid has, but to answer the original question:

    Your dots are most effective when the adds first spawn. Stand in a position where you can SB:SS 4 adds basically as soon as they spawn. The next wave will probably spawn before the first wave is dead, so you don't really need to move much. Keep an eye on low hp name plates and use them to generate shards right as they're dying. You can dump extra shards on other lanes or the big ooze.

    Don't use DS on pull like normal, use it on the first wave of adds. Or you could save it for lust depending on when you guys do that. If your only duty is to kill small oozes, you just keep that up the whole fight. SB:SS everything prioritizing high hp oozes. DS low hp oozes. I personally prefer KJC for this fight since I don't AOE, but AV might be ok if you're good about moving on GCDs. I just get lazy :P.

  18. #18
    Keyboard Turner
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    Thanks everyone who replied but I think you are all missing the point here... The topic is not about going Destro or Affliction for the fight, it's about what I could possible be doing wrong to have such a mediocre dps on the fight since I have tons of adds to dot. The other lock is also affliction and he is doing just fine, obviously I am waaaaaaay undergeared compared to him but my point it: there is something else I am missing on such a big difference between the two of us and that's just not gear.

    I'd like some help to identify where the mistakes are so I can work on fixing them.

    Again, thanks everyone who replied on this.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Ladhy View Post
    Thanks everyone who replied but I think you are all missing the point here... The topic is not about going Destro or Affliction for the fight, it's about what I could possible be doing wrong to have such a mediocre dps on the fight since I have tons of adds to dot. The other lock is also affliction and he is doing just fine, obviously I am waaaaaaay undergeared compared to him but my point it: there is something else I am missing on such a big difference between the two of us and that's just not gear.

    I'd like some help to identify where the mistakes are so I can work on fixing them.

    Again, thanks everyone who replied on this.
    You should be using the imp since the observer is just going to run around most of the time.

    Just from looking at your longest attempt, your uptime is fairly low on your dots. The advice I had before still applies. I think you are not prioritizing higher hp adds for dots but it's hard to tell exactly with logs. It's really a pretty simple task once you have your positioning and timing figured out. I tend to stand between the 2nd and 3rd lane on one side, SB: SS adds as they come out, DS on low hp adds. You just keep repeating that until the end.

    At your gear level, you can maybe shoot for 180-200k dps at most?
    Last edited by Moruff; 2013-08-23 at 05:21 PM.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by TheBGreene View Post
    I understand this, but the fact of the matter is that hm progression fights aren't so much about what you enjoy doing. You are SEVERELY gimping your raid team
    You know dude that this tier is over ? Even 2 months ago the spec issues wouldn't have been a really deal.... because it would have been qualified "overgearing path ".

    Spec matter only in progress with previous tiers gears... If some guilds can't beat Raden, it's only because the raid leader is bad, the healers are bad, the tanks are bad or the dps are bad, in this order.

    Hardcore players aren't those who put every efforts in a short time, for a world race for example.... Hardcore players are those who spend every weeks 4/7 or 5/7, from 21 pm to midnight, just to wipe again and again because they don't want to learn the theorycrafting ( which means dealing with devs mistakes and ignorance of their own decisions.), because they love to fail.
    GC : We try very hard not to monkey around with things just for the sake of changing, but it's easy to play the "I didn't see feedback on X, therefore there wasn't feedback on X" card.

    The ultimate feminist move, liberating all the women from the penis, will be EXCISION.

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