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  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Landin55 View Post
    Yeah remember that great victory when you sneaked up on the Alliance during a blizzard while they were attacking the Scourge? Commendable indeed.
    something Hellscream berates the commander for doing so............
    We have faced trials and danger, threats to our world and our way of life. And yet, we persevere. We are the Horde. We will not let anything break our spirits!"

  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreknar20 View Post
    something Hellscream berates the commander for doing so............
    I'm starting to see a trend where somehow Garrosh's commanders think something will be a great idea and then Hellscream humiliates them in public....Hmmmmm
    "I just wanted them to hand us our award! But they were just talk!, talk!, talk!......" - Wrathion

  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by razorfire View Post
    actually domination point IS losing more than lion's landing is..again, actually look at both sides when they're on the offensive. alliance has forces INSIDE the horde base
    oh wow, couple 7th Legion paras run in.......thats like game over man, game over
    We have faced trials and danger, threats to our world and our way of life. And yet, we persevere. We are the Horde. We will not let anything break our spirits!"

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreknar20 View Post
    oh great, that topic again
    Absolutly every where, it states Garrosh led the Horde to victory in Northrend, and gained fame for doing so, even Thrall commends him multiple times for doing so
    yeah he gets credit for the wins cause he was appointed leader of the offensive, he proceeds to ignore information that is vital to his base's security and saurfang bails him out. the woman he appoints leader of grizzly hills decides that her version of discipline involves a cage match with a bear and she got taken out by her more compassionate but also much smarter sister (she threatens her quartermaster over not getting the right kind of pelt for her fashion statement cloaks...). his icecrown airship leader manages to screw over alliance troops who were doing something that BENEFITED them thus making things harder on themself in the long run and he didn't think for a second there was a problem with that till thrall TOLD HIM IT WAS STUPID.
    ...at this point it's almost guaranteed that "war in warcraft" is garrosh getting on his incompetent podium to declare yet another group his enemy for the crime of breathing his air, alliance saying this is horde favoritism, and the more....special....yes.. let's go with special... horde players seeing garrosh as a god because he lets them attack the alliance players who keep saying that out being led by a moron is horde favoritism.

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Landin55 View Post
    Greatest.... But what if they took 1000 thousand lesser hammer bound them together and made a new great hammer? DW was their most powerful asset but definitely not their last.
    either way, people always talk about how the Horde/Alliance conflict is 'stupid' as if these other forces are right on their door step waving hello
    None of those threats are as of right now an imminent threat
    We have faced trials and danger, threats to our world and our way of life. And yet, we persevere. We are the Horde. We will not let anything break our spirits!"

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreknar20 View Post
    oh wow, couple 7th Legion paras run in.......thats like game over man, game over
    if all you intend to do is downplay any mistake he mistake he makes or loss he has them why not just go play a fan-fic game where the character does whatever you love most and is fully invincible and unstoppable... he messes up constantly, the only people who don't seem to see it are the garrosh fans who don't WANT to see it because it gets in the way of their alli killing if the war ends in the lore...but wait... it doesn't... it just means they aren't being his personal soldiers when they do it -_-
    ...at this point it's almost guaranteed that "war in warcraft" is garrosh getting on his incompetent podium to declare yet another group his enemy for the crime of breathing his air, alliance saying this is horde favoritism, and the more....special....yes.. let's go with special... horde players seeing garrosh as a god because he lets them attack the alliance players who keep saying that out being led by a moron is horde favoritism.

  7. #87
    I think it was a little more prevalent than in the past few expansions, but most main story arcs seem to be both sides coming together to defeat a common enemy anyhow. The game has a lot of potential for increased A vs. H content, but I doubt most of the playerbase wants anything to do with pvp that isn't compartmentalized.
    Benevolence is a luxury for the strong - Wrathion
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  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreknar20 View Post
    either way, people always talk about how the Horde/Alliance conflict is 'stupid' as if these other forces are right on their door step waving hello
    None of those threats are as of right now an imminent threat
    Oh I agree that the Horde/Alliance conflict is the bread and butter of this expansion...After all nearly 75% of the bad stuff that happens is cause we chose Pandaria as our next battlefield. The true villains of the expansion? The players, Alliance and Horde soldiers, and of course the worse of them all.....Thrall. The orc who nurtured Garrosh's pride and created the last sha, the orc who allowed him to lead, the orc who stood by and watched.....
    "I just wanted them to hand us our award! But they were just talk!, talk!, talk!......" - Wrathion

  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by razorfire View Post
    yeah he gets credit for the wins cause he was appointed leader of the offensive, he proceeds to ignore information that is vital to his base's security and saurfang bails him out.
    Saurfang bails him out..........by what helping the player kill a necromancer?
    It still remains that the Warsong Offensive was able to succesfully advance into Northrend against the Scourge under Hellscream
    Thrall and Cairne all congrats him for it

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    Quote Originally Posted by razorfire View Post
    if all you intend to do is downplay any mistake he mistake
    and your not overplaying it?
    By saying somehow Domination Point is hanging by its fingernails while the all so great Alliance is invincible?
    We have faced trials and danger, threats to our world and our way of life. And yet, we persevere. We are the Horde. We will not let anything break our spirits!"

  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreknar20 View Post
    Saurfang bails him out..........by what helping the player kill a necromancer?
    It still remains that the Warsong Offensive was able to succesfully advance into Northrend against the Scourge under Hellscream
    Thrall and Cairne all congrats him for it

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    and your not overplaying it?
    By saying somehow Domination Point is hanging by its fingernails while the all so great Alliance is invincible?
    A: garrosh suffers from general syndrome, he gets called the leader so every accomplishment, regardless of his involvement, is considered his while every issue, regardless of his involvement, is considered the fault of his subordinate closest to it.

    B: if I was overplaying it I'd say he personally went out and murdered every soldier he sent to that base..instead I'm pointing out the completely canon fact that on the overall continuous fighting alliance seems to be the only one that's actually doing damage to their opponent's base.
    ...at this point it's almost guaranteed that "war in warcraft" is garrosh getting on his incompetent podium to declare yet another group his enemy for the crime of breathing his air, alliance saying this is horde favoritism, and the more....special....yes.. let's go with special... horde players seeing garrosh as a god because he lets them attack the alliance players who keep saying that out being led by a moron is horde favoritism.

  11. #91
    Herald of the Titans Khaza-R's Avatar
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    Garrosh is a pretty grey character when you look closely. He has a Darwinian, "might makes right" moral code. He believes strength alone dictates what a person is worth and what they deserve. He absolutely abhors personal weakness of any kind, which is what fuels his elitism that many people mistake for racism. Its also what drives his obsession with conquering the Sha. The Sha themselves represent weakness and the burdens of mortality. Garrosh refuses to accept them as such and views them as forces you can control and use as weapons.

    If you remove some of the poorer story pieces that paint Garrosh as belligerent and idiotic, he actually becomes a very interesting and somewhat tragic villain that meshes with the themes of MoP very well.

  12. #92
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    The problem with writing a red vs blue story is having developers only passionate and interested in the red side of the story. If they had writers passionate about both sides we could have some fantastic developments but instead one side gets a lion share of positive development, the other gets a high king they don't want, no visible victory despite being "victorious" off-screen and in novels, and told a title that barely makes sense is good enough.
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  13. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khaza-R View Post
    Garrosh is a pretty grey character when you look closely. He has a Darwinian, "might makes right" moral code. He believes strength alone dictates what a person is worth and what they deserve. He absolutely abhors personal weakness of any kind, which is what fuels his elitism that many people mistake for racism. Its also what drives his obsession with conquering the Sha. The Sha themselves represent weakness and the burdens of mortality. Garrosh refuses to accept them as such and views them as forces you can control and use as weapons.

    If you remove some of the poorer story pieces that paint Garrosh as belligerent and idiotic, he actually becomes a very interesting and somewhat tragic villain that meshes with the themes of MoP very well.
    Bravo, good sire.

  14. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreknar20 View Post
    either way, people always talk about how the Horde/Alliance conflict is 'stupid' as if these other forces are right on their door step waving hello
    None of those threats are as of right now an imminent threat
    One of a few simple things must be true, though, for the war to make sense:

    1) At least one side is inherently evil.
    --This is required if there is no justification for the war other than wanting the other side dead.
    2) The war is necessary for the survival of the side that started it
    3) At least one side is too stupid to come with alternatives for war

    If none of the above are true, the war makes no sense. #2 clearly isn't the case (if they could ever leave each other alone, they'd be fine). That leaves #1 and #3; Garrosh makes a strong argument for both, while Varian made a strong case for #1 during the Wrath era (they seem to have re-written his character since then... but then they rewrote history to come up with an ending for Cata, so I'm not going to sweat one character at this point). Either way, the war is certainly not something that makes a huge amount of sense.

    I think it would be much easier to just have one of the factions be evil and end the debate for good.

  15. #95
    I'll go ahead and reiterate what's already been said:

    "The war between Horde and Alliance is stupid and contrived". I'm sorry, stating that they have to stick to a completely idiotic and, even for fantasy, brutally unrealistic path just because the TITLE of the game has "War" in it is nonsense. The world is riddled with Old Gods, Dragons, Nagas, Sha's, Titan relics, the Scourge, and somewhere, out in the Nether, a whole infinite host of demons. Yep, makes total sense that we'd just keep on hammering on each other instead of coming to some sort of agreement. Because when each side has been whittled down to a small nub, it will be MUCH easier to fight off that stuff.

    And I don't care if they're not active threats. This isn't like getting back on a bicycle after you scrape your knee. Entire areas of the world have been destroyed, you don't forget that stuff as soon as Arthas is in the ground and say, "Well, that's that! Let's get back to senselessly pounding on our enemies for 'resources'. But first, lunch! Mage, conjure me some cakes!"

  16. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rathnor The Flesher View Post
    Not everybody did, or wants to believe they did, that scenario. He only wanted you dead for aiding the enemy, if anything that only makes me respect him.
    He sent you along with Vol'jin, then the Kor'kron turn on you for being a witness to the assassination attempt.

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  17. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Callei View Post
    He sent you along with Vol'jin, then the Kor'kron turn on you for being a witness to the assassination attempt.
    Eh, not really. It just seemed like they assumed you were his allies. Aggro: "The Warchief will annihilate his enemies!" He never really says anything about no witnesses. I mean, who cares if there were witnesses? What did Garrosh have to lose by that?

  18. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by Rathnor The Flesher View Post
    I feel like Blizz had tried to go that route, but thought it was too risky and decided against it. Garrosh had garnered a negative response from the customers so Blizzard did the sensible thing, from a business stand-point, and eliminated him as Warchief. In the end, the players want both the factions to be the good guys even if it should invalidate the war completely.

    You are absolutely correct in saying that in a world where there are legions of omnicidal demons, hordes of undead, death-cults who worship the Lovecraft-cast of evil gods there is not a single good reason for these people to be fighting each other. They sorta forgot the War in Warcraft.
    People are so sensitive nowadays and it may be affecting WoW. Blizzard probably don't want to send the wrong message and upset their subscribers, so they're always trying to be politically correct to avoid trouble. They probably scrutinize everything they write in order to make sure there's as little as possible of anything that can be seen as racism, sexism, unnecessary wars, anything that can be seen as genocide, among other things. Well, that's what I think anyway.
    Last edited by El_Diabl0; 2013-08-23 at 04:06 AM.

  19. #99
    5.0: Horde and Alliance race to gain connections and diplomatic upperhand over their rival faction.
    5.1: All out war on land and sea against each other in Krasarang Wilds. It was literally the point of the patch.
    5.2: Alliance versus Horde on the Isle of Thunder
    5.3: Garrosh attempts to ethnically cleanse his faction and A vs H is put on hold.
    5.4: Alliance and Horde both attempt to kill Garrosh and those who would try to stop them from doing so.

    That's 3/5ths of the expansion dedicated to it so far.

  20. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by darkwarrior42 View Post
    1) At least one side is inherently evil.
    --This is required if there is no justification for the war other than wanting the other side dead.
    why is that required?
    Good and evil are based on perspective.
    Every army in history, every side across time thought of themselves as good and their enemy as wrong

    All armies go into combat against their opponents seeing as justice, right, and God are on their side.
    And guess what, the other side beleives the same exact thing

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheWindWalker View Post
    That's 3/5ths of the expansion dedicated to it so far.
    I think the argument is, that with all the hype, of this being on the scale similar to the Second War, it kinda falls short
    5.1 was the closest to that, other examples such as 5.2 were kinda side shows to the Thunder King and his allies

    I mean as a Horde player, you have more content focused on fighting against your own Horde then there is fighting against the Alliance

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    Quote Originally Posted by Callei View Post
    He sent you along with Vol'jin, then the Kor'kron turn on you for being a witness to the assassination attempt.
    but then procceds to have the player perform the most important tasks to further his goals and plans...........

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    Quote Originally Posted by Raincrow View Post
    you don't forget that stuff as soon as Arthas is in the ground
    You also dont forget all the bad blood between the factions and races. Just because something like the Scourge pops its head dsnt dilute any of that.
    Thousands have died, homes have been laid waste.........people do not easily forgive and forget
    Which to mean is one of the re-occuring themes of the Warcraft Saga, old hatrds die hard
    Last edited by Dreknar20; 2013-08-23 at 04:49 AM.
    We have faced trials and danger, threats to our world and our way of life. And yet, we persevere. We are the Horde. We will not let anything break our spirits!"

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