yeah he gets credit for the wins cause he was appointed leader of the offensive, he proceeds to ignore information that is vital to his base's security and saurfang bails him out. the woman he appoints leader of grizzly hills decides that her version of discipline involves a cage match with a bear and she got taken out by her more compassionate but also much smarter sister (she threatens her quartermaster over not getting the right kind of pelt for her fashion statement cloaks...). his icecrown airship leader manages to screw over alliance troops who were doing something that BENEFITED them thus making things harder on themself in the long run and he didn't think for a second there was a problem with that till thrall TOLD HIM IT WAS STUPID.
...at this point it's almost guaranteed that "war in warcraft" is garrosh getting on his incompetent podium to declare yet another group his enemy for the crime of breathing his air, alliance saying this is horde favoritism, and the more....special....yes.. let's go with special... horde players seeing garrosh as a god because he lets them attack the alliance players who keep saying that out being led by a moron is horde favoritism.
We have faced trials and danger, threats to our world and our way of life. And yet, we persevere. We are the Horde. We will not let anything break our spirits!"
if all you intend to do is downplay any mistake he mistake he makes or loss he has them why not just go play a fan-fic game where the character does whatever you love most and is fully invincible and unstoppable... he messes up constantly, the only people who don't seem to see it are the garrosh fans who don't WANT to see it because it gets in the way of their alli killing if the war ends in the lore...but wait... it doesn't... it just means they aren't being his personal soldiers when they do it -_-
...at this point it's almost guaranteed that "war in warcraft" is garrosh getting on his incompetent podium to declare yet another group his enemy for the crime of breathing his air, alliance saying this is horde favoritism, and the more....special....yes.. let's go with special... horde players seeing garrosh as a god because he lets them attack the alliance players who keep saying that out being led by a moron is horde favoritism.
I think it was a little more prevalent than in the past few expansions, but most main story arcs seem to be both sides coming together to defeat a common enemy anyhow. The game has a lot of potential for increased A vs. H content, but I doubt most of the playerbase wants anything to do with pvp that isn't compartmentalized.
Oh I agree that the Horde/Alliance conflict is the bread and butter of this expansion...After all nearly 75% of the bad stuff that happens is cause we chose Pandaria as our next battlefield. The true villains of the expansion? The players, Alliance and Horde soldiers, and of course the worse of them all.....Thrall. The orc who nurtured Garrosh's pride and created the last sha, the orc who allowed him to lead, the orc who stood by and watched.....
"I just wanted them to hand us our award! But they were just talk!, talk!, talk!......" - Wrathion
Saurfang bails him out..........by what helping the player kill a necromancer?
It still remains that the Warsong Offensive was able to succesfully advance into Northrend against the Scourge under Hellscream
Thrall and Cairne all congrats him for it
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and your not overplaying it?
By saying somehow Domination Point is hanging by its fingernails while the all so great Alliance is invincible?
We have faced trials and danger, threats to our world and our way of life. And yet, we persevere. We are the Horde. We will not let anything break our spirits!"
A: garrosh suffers from general syndrome, he gets called the leader so every accomplishment, regardless of his involvement, is considered his while every issue, regardless of his involvement, is considered the fault of his subordinate closest to it.
B: if I was overplaying it I'd say he personally went out and murdered every soldier he sent to that base..instead I'm pointing out the completely canon fact that on the overall continuous fighting alliance seems to be the only one that's actually doing damage to their opponent's base.
...at this point it's almost guaranteed that "war in warcraft" is garrosh getting on his incompetent podium to declare yet another group his enemy for the crime of breathing his air, alliance saying this is horde favoritism, and the more....special....yes.. let's go with special... horde players seeing garrosh as a god because he lets them attack the alliance players who keep saying that out being led by a moron is horde favoritism.
Garrosh is a pretty grey character when you look closely. He has a Darwinian, "might makes right" moral code. He believes strength alone dictates what a person is worth and what they deserve. He absolutely abhors personal weakness of any kind, which is what fuels his elitism that many people mistake for racism. Its also what drives his obsession with conquering the Sha. The Sha themselves represent weakness and the burdens of mortality. Garrosh refuses to accept them as such and views them as forces you can control and use as weapons.
If you remove some of the poorer story pieces that paint Garrosh as belligerent and idiotic, he actually becomes a very interesting and somewhat tragic villain that meshes with the themes of MoP very well.
One of a few simple things must be true, though, for the war to make sense:
1) At least one side is inherently evil.
--This is required if there is no justification for the war other than wanting the other side dead.
2) The war is necessary for the survival of the side that started it
3) At least one side is too stupid to come with alternatives for war
If none of the above are true, the war makes no sense. #2 clearly isn't the case (if they could ever leave each other alone, they'd be fine). That leaves #1 and #3; Garrosh makes a strong argument for both, while Varian made a strong case for #1 during the Wrath era (they seem to have re-written his character since then... but then they rewrote history to come up with an ending for Cata, so I'm not going to sweat one character at this point). Either way, the war is certainly not something that makes a huge amount of sense.
I think it would be much easier to just have one of the factions be evil and end the debate for good.
I'll go ahead and reiterate what's already been said:
"The war between Horde and Alliance is stupid and contrived". I'm sorry, stating that they have to stick to a completely idiotic and, even for fantasy, brutally unrealistic path just because the TITLE of the game has "War" in it is nonsense. The world is riddled with Old Gods, Dragons, Nagas, Sha's, Titan relics, the Scourge, and somewhere, out in the Nether, a whole infinite host of demons. Yep, makes total sense that we'd just keep on hammering on each other instead of coming to some sort of agreement. Because when each side has been whittled down to a small nub, it will be MUCH easier to fight off that stuff.
And I don't care if they're not active threats. This isn't like getting back on a bicycle after you scrape your knee. Entire areas of the world have been destroyed, you don't forget that stuff as soon as Arthas is in the ground and say, "Well, that's that! Let's get back to senselessly pounding on our enemies for 'resources'. But first, lunch! Mage, conjure me some cakes!"
People are so sensitive nowadays and it may be affecting WoW. Blizzard probably don't want to send the wrong message and upset their subscribers, so they're always trying to be politically correct to avoid trouble. They probably scrutinize everything they write in order to make sure there's as little as possible of anything that can be seen as racism, sexism, unnecessary wars, anything that can be seen as genocide, among other things. Well, that's what I think anyway.
Last edited by El_Diabl0; 2013-08-23 at 04:06 AM.
5.0: Horde and Alliance race to gain connections and diplomatic upperhand over their rival faction.
5.1: All out war on land and sea against each other in Krasarang Wilds. It was literally the point of the patch.
5.2: Alliance versus Horde on the Isle of Thunder
5.3: Garrosh attempts to ethnically cleanse his faction and A vs H is put on hold.
5.4: Alliance and Horde both attempt to kill Garrosh and those who would try to stop them from doing so.
That's 3/5ths of the expansion dedicated to it so far.
why is that required?
Good and evil are based on perspective.
Every army in history, every side across time thought of themselves as good and their enemy as wrong
All armies go into combat against their opponents seeing as justice, right, and God are on their side.
And guess what, the other side beleives the same exact thing
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I think the argument is, that with all the hype, of this being on the scale similar to the Second War, it kinda falls short
5.1 was the closest to that, other examples such as 5.2 were kinda side shows to the Thunder King and his allies
I mean as a Horde player, you have more content focused on fighting against your own Horde then there is fighting against the Alliance
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but then procceds to have the player perform the most important tasks to further his goals and plans...........
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You also dont forget all the bad blood between the factions and races. Just because something like the Scourge pops its head dsnt dilute any of that.
Thousands have died, homes have been laid waste.........people do not easily forgive and forget
Which to mean is one of the re-occuring themes of the Warcraft Saga, old hatrds die hard
Last edited by Dreknar20; 2013-08-23 at 04:49 AM.
We have faced trials and danger, threats to our world and our way of life. And yet, we persevere. We are the Horde. We will not let anything break our spirits!"
Oh I like "grey areas" too, but there is a time and place.
It's great when the players have a choice in the cause of action to take and can pick what they personally feel is best.
But WoW isn't a game with choice. Blizzard railroads you onto a fixed course set by them.
If you are making such a linear experience, you better make sure your narrative is airtight when it comes to "buy in" from the player base. This mostly means "black and white" morality with little doubt as to the moral standing of the various participants of the story.
Last edited by SodiumChloride; 2013-08-23 at 06:12 AM.