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  1. #201
    Legendary! Kaleredar's Avatar
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    I feel GC's comment could indeed fit within the "Oh, don't worry, if we were to do anything Pandaren related, it'd probably just be a book or something" vein of responses.


    I don't see why Tinkers are too "whimsical;" they've been in Warcraft for quite a long time. The only issue I could really see is that they'd basically "take over" the theme of an entire profession.
    "Do not look down, my friend. Even in the darkest of times, there is always hope... Hope for a better day, hope for a new dawn... Or just hope for a good breakfast. You start small, then see what you can get." ~ Covetous Shen
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  2. #202
    Quote Originally Posted by Belisaurio View Post
    Cheerleader class!!!
    I know you're mostly joking, but that would probably manifest itself in WoW as a Bard, which while I don't personally think they fit into WoW's grand theme, is an open theme within the existing classes we have.

    The question, of course, becomes why? Why a bard? Why now? We've never seen anything like that in game or lore (outside of the April Fools joke), and "The Dark Below" doesn't exactly imply Bard.
    Last edited by Pebble; 2013-08-24 at 12:34 AM.

  3. #203
    The question, of course, becomes why? Why a bard? Why now? We've never seen anything like that in game or lore (outside of the April Fools joke), and "The Dark Below" doesn't exactly imply Bard.
    Have hope!!!
    Tinkerers started in WC3 for an April's fool. Some fan-forums here, some concepts there, and voilà! A Wild Tinkerer appeared in Tavern!!!!!!

  4. #204
    Quote Originally Posted by Belisaurio View Post
    Cheerleader class!!!



    You can write something similar of every new class:
    Demon Hunter: Warglaived fighters that use demon steroids to fight the same demons that they had inside. The fact that they use demons or have the same resource doesn't make them a warlock (summoner/ranged dps).
    Wardens: Assassins that use vengeance and magic-summoning in melee to avenge their people with circular-blades. The fact that they use magic skills doesn't make them a mage, and the fact that they use poisons, doesn't make them a rogue.
    Tinkerer: a technology-user that throws rockets and summon robots to fight enemys. The fact that they seems to use some engineering trinkets doesn't make them like an engineers.
    etc etc...

    If you want to create a new class, just try to use the same mechanics of monks/DKs. Doesn't matter if your class overlapp another, just make their core-mechanics different, give them something really cool and you are done.
    Except you really can't. They don't have to be the same to share a common theme. No two classes in WoW at the moment overlap in theme.

    Demon hunters, no matter how you twist it, at the end of the day overlap with warlocks, warriors, hunters, and of course rogues.

    Warden, no matter how you twist it, at the end of the day overlap with monks, rogues, paladins/priests, and whatever else I'm forgetting.

    They aren't the same, but they're similar enough - you won't see it in WoW.
    Last edited by Pebble; 2013-08-24 at 12:52 AM.

  5. #205
    Scarab Lord Frozen Death Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coldhearth View Post
    You're dense. It was their polite way of saying "what a stupid fucking idea"
    It's a shame there is no like button on these forums.

  6. #206
    Except you really can't. They don't have to be the same to share a common theme. No two classes in WoW at the moment overlap in theme.

    Demon hunters, no matter how you twist it, at the end of the day overlap with warlocks, warriors, hunters, and of course rogues.

    Warden, no matter how you twist it, at the end of the day overlap with monks, rogues, paladins/priests, and whatever else I'm forgetting.

    They aren't the same, but they're similar enough - you won't see it in WoW.
    This is not the topic, but there are some overlapped classes/skills/themes already:
    Paladin=warrior+priest
    Monk= rogue+priest/paladin+shaman
    Shaman= mage+priest
    Druid= mage+warrior+rogue
    etc...

    They aren't the same, but they're similar enough - but you have all in game already, some of them using the same type of skills or the same Fx in some abilities.
    But If you can give them something unique, like armour or new look, then you have a new unique class.

  7. #207
    Quote Originally Posted by Belisaurio View Post
    This is not the topic, but there are some overlapped classes/skills/themes already:
    Paladin=warrior+priest
    Monk= rogue+priest/paladin+shaman
    Shaman= mage+priest
    Druid= mage+warrior+rogue
    etc...

    They aren't the same, but they're similar enough - but you have all in game already, some of them using the same type of skills or the same Fx in some abilities.
    But If you can give them something unique, like armour or new look, then you have a new unique class.
    None of those things overlap at all. You clearly don't understand what I mean by theme.

    Mechanically they may appear to be similar, but they aren't.

    That's like trying to say a warlock and a fire mage are similar because they both use fire.

    Or that a shaman and Druid are similar because they both use nature.

    In reality, fire mages draw their power from the elements, where as warlocks literally draw on hellfire and burn themselves in the process. That is a difference of theme.

    Shaman, again, draw from the elements. Druids draw from the earth mother. A difference in theme.

    Mechanically you can argue that a paladin is basically a priest and warrior combined, but that isn't at all true in theme.
    Last edited by Pebble; 2013-08-24 at 01:19 AM.

  8. #208
    Quote Originally Posted by Pebble View Post
    Except you really can't. They don't have to be the same to share a common theme. No two classes in WoW at the moment overlap in theme.

    Demon hunters, no matter how you twist it, at the end of the day overlap with warlocks, warriors, hunters, and of course rogues.

    Warden, no matter how you twist it, at the end of the day overlap with monks, rogues, paladins/priests, and whatever else I'm forgetting.

    They aren't the same, but they're similar enough - you won't see it in WoW.
    It doesn't matter how much overlap there is ... one of the few things in WoW I'm sure of is that we'll see playable Demon Hunters. They'll make it work.
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  9. #209
    Quote Originally Posted by Count Zero View Post
    It doesn't matter how much overlap there is ... one of the few things in WoW I'm sure of is that we'll see playable Demon Hunters. They'll make it work.
    And as I also said, you can think what you want, hope what you want. Logic tells us it won't happen.

    Speculating that a demon hunter class will be added at this point is nothing more that hope and desire, there's no logical reasoning behind it.

    Speculation generally needs to be accompanied by more than "I want it."

  10. #210
    Theme= thematic that they play/use. Can be aesthetics/cosmetics or user's feeling about them:

    Paladin=warrior+priest: Same cosmetics of holy energy, purity, etc...+plus warrior character to feel like a "holy" warrior.
    Monk= rogue+priest/paladin+shaman: Different cosmetics (peace, zen, oriental aesthetics, etc...), but the same type of melee combat, using holy energy, flee, fight melee and use at the same type magic damage.
    Shaman= mage+priest: Close aesthetics (fire/water from mages), but using different armor, and using water energy like holy energy for a priest.
    Druid= mage+warrior+rogue: different aesthetics, but using the same type off melee combat in cat form like a rogue, the same feeling of a warrior in bear and close to a arcane mage in chicken form. Of course they are different, but have something really close in the character's design.
    etc...
    Warden can be a mage/ rogue, so they overlap like a paladin to warrior/ priest, but have the feeling to be really different and use vengeance and anti-hero type character like DKs.
    Tinkerer can be a DK/Warlock: summon minions in melee and fight in mid/melee range, but they can have really different aesthetics/cosmetics to feel completely new (and different resource to not feel like an engineering but close look in their aesthetics/cosmetics/particles in skills).
    Demon Hunter can be like Rogue/DK +warlock, with the same melee/magic user like rogues, but using melee summons like DK but with warlocks aesthetics (or similar).
    Last edited by Belisaurio; 2013-08-24 at 01:37 AM.

  11. #211
    Quote Originally Posted by Belisaurio View Post
    Theme= thematic that they play/use. Can be aesthetics/cosmetics or user's feeling about them:



    Warden can be a mage/ rogue, so they overlap like a paladin to warrior/ priest, but have the feeling to be really different and use vengeance and anti-hero type character like DKs.
    Tinkerer can be a DK/Warlock: summon minions in melee and fight in mid/melee range, but they can have really different aesthetics/cosmetics to feel completely new (and different resource to not feel like an engineering but close look in their aesthetics/cosmetics/particles in skills).
    Demon Hunter can be like Rogue/DK +warlock, with the same melee/magic user like rogues, but using melee summons like DK but with warlocks aesthetics (or similar).
    Again, you're completely missing the point. All the things you're pointing out are MECHANICAL similarities for the sake of GAMEPLAY. None of the current classes overlap THEMATICALLY.

    The overlap that would exist for Demon Hunters and Warden are THEMATIC similarities, not mechanical.

    - - - Updated - - -

    In game there's fire, nature, frost, holy, etc. Those are mechanics. For gameplay purposes.

    In reality, it isn't that simple. There's multiple types of fire, there's multiple types of holy, there's multiple types of nature, frost, etc. They are different in THEME.

  12. #212
    Dreadlord MetalheroDamien's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pebble View Post
    None of those things overlap at all. You clearly don't understand what I mean by theme.

    Mechanically they may appear to be similar, but they aren't.

    That's like trying to say a warlock and a fire mage are similar because they both use fire.

    Or that a shaman and Druid are similar because they both use nature.

    In reality, fire mages draw their power from the elements, where as warlocks literally draw on hellfire and burn themselves in the process. That is a difference of theme.

    Shaman, again, draw from the elements. Druids draw from the earth mother. A difference in theme.

    Mechanically you can argue that a paladin is basically a priest and warrior combined, but that isn't at all true in theme.
    And Demons Hunters and Warlocks would differ in theme in that DHs use their own power to fight against demons specificially, where as warlocks sign contracts with Demonic powers to use their power against whatever foes they face. It goes both ways.
    Nostalgia is the hollow remnants of memories long gone.

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  13. #213
    Quote Originally Posted by Pebble View Post
    And as I also said, you can think what you want, hope what you want. Logic tells us it won't happen.

    Speculating that a demon hunter class will be added at this point is nothing more that hope and desire, there's no logical reasoning behind it.

    Speculation generally needs to be accompanied by more than "I want it."
    Well, you can assume the motivation behind my post all you want, but I don't believe Demon Hunters will be playable because "I want it". I don't personally care whether they appear or not.

    Tom Chilton recently said: "The number one most requested race for us to do -- by a long shot -- it was pandaren, from various different ways that we gather information".

    They listen to player feedback. I'd never heard much, at all, talk about folks wanting Pandaren in the game. But I've been hearing a ton of folks requesting Demon Hunters, for a long time. They will fit them in.
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  14. #214
    Dreadlord MetalheroDamien's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Count Zero View Post
    Well, you can assume the motivation behind my post all you want, but I don't believe Demon Hunters will be playable because "I want it". I don't personally care whether they appear or not.

    Tom Chilton recently said: "The number one most requested race for us to do -- by a long shot -- it was pandaren, from various different ways that we gather information".

    They listen to player feedback. I'd never heard much, at all, talk about folks wanting Pandaren in the game. But I've been hearing a ton of folks requesting Demon Hunters, for a long time. They will fit them in.
    Slightly off topic, but I personally know I pre-ordered BC as soon as I heard that the Pandaren would the Alliance race for it, and have always used that as my answer on "What race would you like to see in game" polls, but then, I'm just one person.
    Nostalgia is the hollow remnants of memories long gone.

    -Kaito Kumon (Kamen Rider Baron)

  15. #215
    Quote Originally Posted by Urufu View Post
    And Demons Hunters and Warlocks would differ in theme in that DHs use their own power to fight against demons specificially, where as warlocks sign contracts with Demonic powers to use their power against whatever foes they face. It goes both ways.
    They're both using demonic powers. From demons. It's the same thing. It's not like a fire mage and a warlock, or a Druid and a shaman.

  16. #216
    Quote Originally Posted by Urufu View Post
    Slightly off topic, but I personally know I pre-ordered BC as soon as I heard that the Pandaren would the Alliance race for it, and have always used that as my answer on "What race would you like to see in game" polls, but then, I'm just one person.
    Yeah, I mean, they did say it was the number one requested race -- so obviously I either missed out on the forum posts, or it was largely in different ways they gathered that info.

    That being said, if Pandaren were number one most requested race with that flying under my radar, then surely Demon Hunters (with me noticing they're the most requested class) must be pretty popular in all the ways they gather data.
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  17. #217
    The overlap that would exist for Demon Hunters and Warden are THEMATIC similarities, not mechanical.
    I don't understand.
    You said that Demon Hunters overlap with:
    warlocks, warriors, hunters, and of course rogues.
    Warlocks: same energy (like paladins and priests: holy energy), but they play really different (ranged/summoner vs melee) and they look really diferent: long clothes vs tattoo without any armor (like priests and paladins).
    Warriors: Can use the same weapons? Don't find anything similar, maybe the orc-warriors are close in aesthetics because they don't wear too much armor?
    Hunters: The name? They hunt things (one hunt beasts, and other hunt demons)?
    Rogues: The only class that I see they can overlap, but one is a rogue (something that can steal your watch in a handshake!!), and the other one is a magical user that use demon-energies to kill demons (fight fire with fire!!). A fusion of shaman/monk and rogue could be close maybe.

    Warden
    I can talk about them too, but I must go out (job to do) sorry.

    P.D: I find more overlaped thematic-things in a priest-paladin-warrior or shamman-mage-monk than Demon Hunters.
    Last edited by Belisaurio; 2013-08-24 at 01:57 AM.

  18. #218
    Scarab Lord TheWindWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pebble View Post
    Monks are unarmed fights that focus on using martial arts, powerful brews, and the aid of celestial beings. That is nothing like a rogue or ret paladin. The fact that they have energy and wear leather does not make them a rogue. The fact that they have a resource system does not make them ret paladins.
    You didn't ask "are there lore differences between these" you said "do they overlap." Mechanically, a WW/BrM functions the same way an unstealthed Rogue and Feral does up until you mix in the way Ret handles using Holy Power for Templar's Verdict. If you're going to pull that kind of excuse on me you might as well say that bringing in a Demon Hunter exactly like Illidan with renamed attacks and manditory swords wouldn't have any overlap with Warlocks. You can't have it both ways and that's literally what you're trying to do here.

  19. #219
    Quote Originally Posted by Count Zero View Post
    Yeah, I mean, they did say it was the number one requested race -- so obviously I either missed out on the forum posts, or it was largely in different ways they gathered that info.

    That being said, if Pandaren were number one most requested race with that flying under my radar, then surely Demon Hunters (with me noticing they're the most requested class) must be pretty popular in all the ways they gather data.
    Except pandaren being requested and demon hunters being requested are two very different beasts. If Pandaren had already been seen in game pre-MoP and existed in some form (neutral faction, etc) you'd have a point. Proceeding to add them as a playable race would have conflicted with something else in game.

    They didn't exist, had never been seen. Adding them didn't conflict with anything currently in game.

    Demon Hunters exist, they've been seen in game, their abilities and theme have been farmed out to other classes. Adding them now directly conflicts with those classes.

  20. #220
    The Insane Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    If there is one thing I've learned, it's Teriz is addicted to Tinkers. I mean if it fit Dark Below sure more power to it but I don't see how really.
    Blizzard do not destroy Jaina Proudmoore's character. Make her who she once was, not full of rage and vengeance.,If you are curious about me or about my writing aspirations, feel free to pst me. Paladin-Sorcerer at your service! http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...htsongg/simple

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