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  1. #381
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhamses View Post
    If anything, Blizzard should add a tech class just because it would make sense for Gnomes and Goblins. It just seems weird that those two races can't be a tech class. Just seems weird that their racial identity is based around technology, and neither race has a class that reflects that identity.
    It's weird the night elves cant be demon hunters. Their racial identity cant be reflected. This thread should be closed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Simulatio View Post
    A handful of people nut-busting about it on various forums does not equal popularity, and popularity does not equal good design.

  2. #382
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    No, they didn't deny it. If anything, that tweet gives it a very good chance of appearing in the game.

  3. #383
    That answer was obvious no and no

  4. #384
    Quote Originally Posted by Sukhoi View Post
    It's weird the night elves cant be demon hunters. Their racial identity cant be reflected. This thread should be closed.
    You're being silly man. Demon Hunters are shunned from NE society, and have nothing to do with NE racial identity. If anything, they're a fluke mostly spear-headed by Illidan. Nothing more, nothing less.

    Night Elves are mostly Sentinels (Hunters), and Druids. That's their racial identity, and they have classes available to them that reflect that.

  5. #385
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhamses View Post
    You're being silly man. Demon Hunters are shunned from NE society, and have nothing to do with NE racial identity. If anything, they're a fluke mostly spear-headed by Illidan. Nothing more, nothing less.

    Night Elves are mostly Sentinels (Hunters), and Druids. That's their racial identity, and they have classes available to them that reflect that.
    Theyre pretty iconic to nes. I dont think thats silly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Simulatio View Post
    A handful of people nut-busting about it on various forums does not equal popularity, and popularity does not equal good design.

  6. #386
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhamses View Post
    You're being silly man. Demon Hunters are shunned from NE society, and have nothing to do with NE racial identity. If anything, they're a fluke mostly spear-headed by Illidan. Nothing more, nothing less.

    Night Elves are mostly Sentinels (Hunters), and Druids. That's their racial identity, and they have classes available to them that reflect that.
    If we're going this route, Gnomes and Goblins have the engineering profession available to reflect their identity - which is even better because they get to choose a class and still fulfill a dumb fantasy stereotype.
    Last edited by Cooper; 2013-09-02 at 06:33 AM.

  7. #387
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cooper View Post
    If we're going this route, Gnomes and Goblins have the engineering profession available to reflect their identity - which is even better because they get to choose a class and still fulfill a dumb fantasy stereotype.
    Engineering doesn't do half the things a class can do. When you see Gnomes and Goblins using tech, they also use them for combat purposes. Outside of a couple of trinkets, and item enhancers, I can't use Engineering in combat. Also, when I'm running around as an Engineer, it doesn't really show on my character. Yeah, I can fire a random rocket, or have a stream of energy coming off my character (on massive cooldowns). But that's about it. Monks have fighter poses when they're about to fight. Shaman have lighting shield swirling around them, and elemental energy swirling around their weapon. Druids can turn into multiple animals. Engineering? Engineering gives you nothing to show that you're an Engineer. Yeah, you can put on some tech goggles, but anyone can buy those tech goggles from the auction house.

    In the end, it kind of dilutes the flavor because anyone can roll engineering. Everyone can't roll a Druid, Shaman, or Paladin. A tinker class would be a better reflection of both the Goblin and Gnome races.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Sukhoi View Post
    Theyre pretty iconic to nes. I dont think thats silly.
    Let me know when Night Elves have entire cities dedicated to Demon Hunters.

    Heck, even Gnome and Goblin racial mounts are tech-based.

  8. #388
    Quote Originally Posted by Cooper View Post
    If we're going this route, Gnomes and Goblins have the engineering profession available to reflect their identity - which is even better because they get to choose a class and still fulfill a dumb fantasy stereotype.
    Making a pair of goggles to sell in the AH isn't better than stomping and frying enemies in mech armor.

  9. #389
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Let me know when Night Elves have entire cities dedicated to Demon Hunters.

    Heck, even Gnome and Goblin racial mounts are tech-based.
    Keep in mind, literally noone cares about gnomes or goblins.

    Quote Originally Posted by Simulatio View Post
    A handful of people nut-busting about it on various forums does not equal popularity, and popularity does not equal good design.

  10. #390
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sukhoi View Post
    Keep in mind, literally noone cares about gnomes or goblins.
    Would that include the more than 2.5 million users who play both races?

  11. #391
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Would that include the more than 2.5 million users who play both races?
    In a lore perspective i mean. Theyre not important enough. And once again, the tinker couldnt plan into an expansion like the dk and monk. Ive told you why. It's your own fault you cant face reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Simulatio View Post
    A handful of people nut-busting about it on various forums does not equal popularity, and popularity does not equal good design.

  12. #392
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sukhoi View Post
    In a lore perspective i mean. Theyre not important enough. And once again, the tinker couldnt plan into an expansion like the dk and monk. Ive told you why. It's your own fault you cant face reality.
    You mean lore and expansions that Blizzard can introduce or change at any time and have complete control over?

    That's the "reality" you're talking about?

  13. #393
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    You mean lore and expansions that Blizzard can introduce or change at any time and have complete control over?

    That's the "reality" you're talking about?
    Lol if you think theres going to be an expansion about technology, yeah. You need to face reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Simulatio View Post
    A handful of people nut-busting about it on various forums does not equal popularity, and popularity does not equal good design.

  14. #394
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sukhoi View Post
    Lol if you think theres going to be an expansion about technology, yeah. You need to face reality.
    The expansion doesn't need to be about technology to introduce a Tinker class.

    Unless you honestly think MoP was about Kung Fu.

  15. #395
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhamses View Post
    Making a pair of goggles to sell in the AH isn't better than stomping and frying enemies in mech armor.
    You're not getting mech armor even if Blizzard were to add a Tinker class.

    When you see Gnomes and Goblins using tech, they also use them for combat purposes. Outside of a couple of trinkets, and item enhancers, I can't use Engineering in combat.
    You are incredibly full of shit. There's plenty of engineering items that can be used in combat. They can be used pretty much just like the gnomes and goblins and other technician-type mobs in game use them.

    http://www.wowhead.com/spell=54793
    http://www.wowhead.com/spell=3968
    http://www.wowhead.com/spell=23069
    http://www.wowhead.com/spell=12902
    http://www.wowhead.com/spell=12903
    http://www.wowhead.com/spell=22797

    not to mention

    http://www.wowhead.com/spell=109077
    http://www.wowhead.com/spell=108789
    http://www.wowhead.com/spell=126731

    and that's just a small sampling.

    In the end, it kind of dilutes the flavor because anyone can roll engineering. Everyone can't roll a Druid, Shaman, or Paladin. A tinker class would be a better reflection of both the Goblin and Gnome races.
    So flavor comes from exclusivity? That is complete garbage. A druid isn't any less a druid because Trolls are eligible for the class now. Exclusivity has jack all to do with a class' flavor. Not to mention that if a Tinker class were added, at the very least Humans, Orcs, Dwarves and Forsaken would all be pretty much guaranteed to have the class available. Probably Draenei and Blood Elves as well. A case could be made for Worgen also, given the Victorian nature of Gilnean society. So now Tinker isn't a reflection of the gnomes and goblins at all, but any society with technology more advanced than the wheel.

    And on that note, as for a class being a "better reflection of the Goblin and Gnome races": What about Kelsey Steelspark? Is she less of a gnome because she's a Rogue and not a Tinker? The answer is no, and she's one of the best characters in the game, despite (or - just maybe! - because of) not fulfilling a fantasy cliché. And what about the Engineering and Alchemy bonuses that gnomes and goblins get? How do those not reflect the stereotypes of those races? Do they get stripped once a class that "reflects their society" is added? What happens to the engineering crafting profession once a class is added that effectively renders it obsolete? And what happens to the players that leveled that very expensive profession?

  16. #396
    Demon hunters may not be common for night elves, but they're iconic for Warcraft. Plus, demon hunters are generally anti-heroes, not villains. But, honestly, even that doesn't matter.

    You know what class was always chaotic evil? Death knights.

    I'm not even saying that demon hunters should take precedence over anything in this post, I'm just saying that, after the way they justified death knights, there's no lore that would stop demon hunters.

  17. #397
    Elemental Lord Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cooper View Post
    You're not getting mech armor even if Blizzard were to add a Tinker class.
    We might. Other RPGs have allowed technology classes to use mech armor in combat, and it is quite a cool way to fight.


    You are incredibly full of shit. There's plenty of engineering items that can be used in combat. They can be used pretty much just like the gnomes and goblins and other technician-type mobs in game use them.

    and that's just a small sampling.
    I do believe I said "except trinkets and item enhancers". Thanks for listing a bunch of trinkets and item enhancers.


    So flavor comes from exclusivity? That is complete garbage. A druid isn't any less a druid because Trolls are eligible for the class now. Exclusivity has jack all to do with a class' flavor. Not to mention that if a Tinker class were added, at the very least Humans, Orcs, Dwarves and Forsaken would all be pretty much guaranteed to have the class available. Probably Draenei and Blood Elves as well. A case could be made for Worgen also, given the Victorian nature of Gilnean society. So now Tinker isn't a reflection of the gnomes and goblins at all, but any society with technology more advanced than the wheel.
    There's a reason most Night Elf and Worgen players are Druids. There's also a reason the two most popular classes are also the classes with the fewest available races (Druids and Paladins). Flavor goes a long way. And no, a profession doesn't provide the same level of immersion or flavor that a class does.

    We also don't know if a Tinker class would include all of those races. A Tinker class could very well be only Goblins and Gnomes, which would work out just fine, and prevent a dilution of the class. We all know that Goblins and Gnomes are the most intelligent races on Azeroth, so it stands to reason that a technological class would be their territory, and their territory alone. Such race exclusivity could allow Blizzard to do fun and interesting things with the class that they couldn't do if the class was spread to multiple races.

    Mech suits for example.


    And what about the Engineering and Alchemy bonuses that gnomes and goblins get? How do those not reflect the stereotypes of those races? Do they get stripped once a class that "reflects their society" is added? What happens to the engineering crafting profession once a class is added that effectively renders it obsolete? And what happens to the players that leveled that very expensive profession?
    They'll still have the profession to make mounts and trinkets, just like they do now. Additionally, if a Tinker class only goes to Goblins and Gnomes, engineering will be in place for other races to build technological toys and trinkets.

    A class and a profession perform very different functions in the game. A class is there to perform a role (tanking/DPS/Healing). A profession allows you to craft items. The two don't overlap with each other. Which is why GC never mentions Engineering in any of his Tinker tweets, yet mentions several classes as soon as DHs are mentioned.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Jokubas View Post
    Demon hunters may not be common for night elves, but they're iconic for Warcraft. Plus, demon hunters are generally anti-heroes, not villains. But, honestly, even that doesn't matter.

    You know what class was always chaotic evil? Death knights.

    I'm not even saying that demon hunters should take precedence over anything in this post, I'm just saying that, after the way they justified death knights, there's no lore that would stop demon hunters.
    Lore reasons can't stop a class from entering the game, because lore can be changed to compliment gameplay at any time. What stops DHs from entering WoW are mechanical and design reasons.
    Last edited by Teriz; 2013-09-02 at 08:50 PM.

  18. #398
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    I do believe I said "except trinkets and item enhancers". Thanks for listing a bunch of trinkets and item enhancers.
    "I can't use engineering items in combat, except for all these engineering items that I can use in combat."


    There's a reason most Night Elf and Worgen players are Druids.
    Could it possibly be if somebody wants to play a Druid, they have to be one of those races, whereas the other classes have a lot more options available to them? It has nothing to do with flavor.

    There's also a reason the two most popular classes are also the classes with the fewest available races (Druids and Paladins). Flavor goes a long way.
    You're out of your mind if you think those classes are popular because of "flavor" and not because of perceived overpoweredness, diversity in group roles available to them, or some combination thereof. And you're even more out of your mind if you think that "flavor" comes from "limited race options."

    And no, a profession doesn't provide the same level of immersion or flavor that a class does.
    You'd be doing the exact same things as a Tinker that you can already do as an Engineer.



    We also don't know if a Tinker class would include all of those races. A Tinker class could very well be only Goblins and Gnomes, which would work out just fine, and prevent a dilution of the class. We all know that Goblins and Gnomes are the most intelligent races on Azeroth, so it stands to reason that a technological class would be their territory, and their territory alone.
    Lots of races are shown to use technology, so you're wrong on the face of it. Wasn't that one of your arguments for why a Tinker class could fit into the world in the first place? Now suddenly only gnomes and goblins can be the class?

    Not to mention: Blizzard is not going to make a class just for gnomes and goblins. Druid isn't even exclusive to one race per side anymore.

    Such race exclusivity could allow Blizzard to do fun and interesting things with the class that they couldn't do if the class was spread to multiple races.
    That... has absolutely nothing to do with anything. Blizzard could "do fun and interesting" things with the class regardless of how many races are allowed.

    Mech suits for example.
    You're not getting mech suits. Well, unless Blizzard feels like shitting all over whatever integrity their IP has left in it. This isn't Battletech here. It's still a fantasy game. Putting Battlemechs in a group with Paladins and Mages would be tonally and thematically schizophrenic.


    They'll still have the profession to make mounts and trinkets, just like they do now. A class and a profession perform very different functions in the game. A class is there to perform a role (tanking/DPS/Healing). A profession allows you to craft items.
    Items that would be rendered obsolete by whatever abilities a Tinker class may have.

    The two don't overlap with each other. Which is why GC never mentions Engineering in any of his Tinker tweets
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostcrawler
    A little bit of gnomish (tee hee) world enlarger goes a long way IMO.
    It's right in those tweets you keep bringing up.
    Last edited by Cooper; 2013-09-02 at 09:15 PM.

  19. #399
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cooper View Post
    "I can't use engineering items in combat, except for all these engineering items that I can use in combat."
    Yes, because tossing a stick of dynamite that does no damage to a level 90 mob is the same as a Goblin or Gnome wrecking shit with a giant robot.

    Could it possibly be if somebody wants to play a Druid, they have to be one of those races, whereas the other classes have a lot more options available to them? It has nothing to do with flavor.
    Is that why Paladins and Druids are consistently among the top 2 classes despite having the fewest racial options? Sure they're full hybrids, but they also have a great deal of class flavor because only a select few races can use them.


    You'd be doing the exact same things as a Tinker that you can already do as an Engineer.
    Please explain how I could heal a group or raid using only Engineering abilities.


    Lots of races are shown to use technology, so you're wrong on the face of it. Wasn't that one of your arguments for why a Tinker class could fit into the world in the first place? Now suddenly only gnomes and goblins can be the class?
    Tinkers being able to be any race is one of my arguments for the class. However, an argument can also be made that limiting the tinker class to two races can increase the flavor of the class.

    Not to mention: Blizzard is not going to make a class just for gnomes and goblins. Druid isn't even exclusive to one race per side anymore.
    Please link us to where Blizzard said they would never release a class that could only be used by 2 races.

    You're not getting mech suits. Well, unless Blizzard feels like shitting all over whatever integrity their IP has left in it. This isn't Battletech here. It's still a fantasy game. Putting Battlemechs in a group with Paladins and Mages would be tonally and thematically schizophrenic.


    What?

    Items that would be rendered obsolete by whatever abilities a Tinker class may have.
    Nah. An engineer building a gun or a mount wouldn't be affected by a Tinker tanking a raid or DPSing in a group.


    It's right in those tweets you keep bringing up.
    I don't see the word "engineering" anywhere in that tweet.

  20. #400
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Yes, because tossing a stick of dynamite that does no damage to a level 90 mob is the same as a Goblin or Gnome wrecking shit with a giant robot.




    Is that why Paladins and Druids are consistently among the top 2 classes despite having the fewest racial options? Sure they're full hybrids, but they also have a great deal of class flavor because only a select few races can use them.




    Please explain how I could heal a group or raid using only Engineering abilities.




    Tinkers being able to be any race is one of my arguments for the class. However, an argument can also be made that limiting the tinker class to two races can increase the flavor of the class.



    Please link us to where Blizzard said they would never release a class that could only be used by 2 races.





    What?



    Nah. An engineer building a gun or a mount wouldn't be affected by a Tinker tanking a raid or DPSing in a group.




    I don't see the word "engineering" anywhere in that tweet.
    Same exact purpose served.

    There wont be two pure hybrids added in a row.

    Tinkers dont heal. Holy shit. You ignorant moron. Tinkers dont heal. Youre the only one saying they heal.

    Blizzard knows the gnomes and goblins are the humor races. Why would blizzard base a class off them to bring back subs.

    It's a fucking mount, and a boss fight. Once again, face the reality because there are tinker bosses, doesnt mean theres a tinker class. Look. At. Illidan.

    Building a mount is the same fucking thing as being in a mech suit in wow. Blizzard just showed it with the sky golem.

    The world enlarger is engineering. Way to employ the nope nope nope argument here. Tinkerbell.

    Quote Originally Posted by Simulatio View Post
    A handful of people nut-busting about it on various forums does not equal popularity, and popularity does not equal good design.

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