View Poll Results: Do you find this idea and this questline intresting?

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    117 66.10%
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  1. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by Amsden View Post
    I like the idea of the Alliance retaking Gilneas, but I don't think it should be an Alliance zone. I think Dalaran should reland and the Alliance make it a headquarters And have Gilneas be contested. Keep in mind even after the Alliance retakes it they will have to figure out a way to clean out the plague mess the forsaken left.
    it's already under Alliance control, during the Horde quest chain Darius agrees to retreat his forces back to Gilneas and leave Silverpine. so there's probably a cease fire or some sort of agreement between the two sides no matter how fractious.

  2. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by Amsden View Post
    I like the idea of the Alliance retaking Gilneas, but I don't think it should be an Alliance zone. I think Dalaran should reland and the Alliance make it a headquarters And have Gilneas be contested. Keep in mind even after the Alliance retakes it they will have to figure out a way to clean out the plague mess the forsaken left.
    Gilneas and Dalaran as Alliance zones, Hillsbrad as contested zone...


  3. #103
    Realistically, hillsbrad an horde-zone, Gilneas rebuilt and worgen starting zone (Probably this too is a dream), stromgarde contested but the alliance regain the capital (the horde has already gained Andorhall).
    PS: Dalaran an alliance city lorewise, not ingame.
    PS: I wanted to remember that Burning steppes (via Shadowforge city) are now very likely under Moira's dark iron control, as hinted in slaghammer's quest in ironforge. Play attention, I said "Very likely" as very likely the alliance has only northwatch in the barrens now...
    Last edited by Octavius; 2013-09-30 at 05:27 PM.

  4. #104
    I didn't read the whole thing, but I don't have to. This is a great idea, and I'd love to have Gilneas revamped! It would be a stick in my side about them getting it before Draenei/Blood Elves, but it'd be a nice addition to make Gilneas a REAL zone, rather than just a phased one.

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  5. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by Northem View Post
    Gilneas and Dalaran as Alliance zones, Hillsbrad as contested zone...
    Dalaran is not going to be shown Alliance affiliated in-game due to gameplay issues.

    Hillsbrad has potential to become a contested zone again, if Blizz gives Horde a base in Wetlands and makes it a contested zone.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by AlarStormbringer View Post
    I didn't read the whole thing, but I don't have to. This is a great idea, and I'd love to have Gilneas revamped! It would be a stick in my side about them getting it before Draenei/Blood Elves, but it'd be a nice addition to make Gilneas a REAL zone, rather than just a phased one.
    BE/Draenei zones are not present on Azeroth Map and adding them requires a greater amount of work than making Gilneas a playable low level zone.

  6. #106
    Seeing as Gilneas was originally planned for Cataclysm and got cut(hence the current unfinished state of the zone) it would be nice for the worgen to finally get a zone to call home(even if it isn't their official zone) like the Goblins have Azshara. Seeing as it is an Alliance race/zone though, I have a feeling it automatically gets low priority.

  7. #107
    Warchief TheDangerZone's Avatar
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    Regardless of the merit of the idea plot wise, it's just needlessly complicated and unnecessary. The quest flow is finally balanced, redesigning Gilneas as a leveling area would not make any sense.

    Why not redesign Gilneas as a endgame content zone instead? Why waste a zone with so much potential in leveling, when it would just create timeline inconsistencies? It just seems pointless.

  8. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by Amonra View Post
    Regardless of the merit of the idea plot wise, it's just needlessly complicated and unnecessary. The quest flow is finally balanced, redesigning Gilneas as a leveling area would not make any sense.

    Why not redesign Gilneas as a endgame content zone instead? Why waste a zone with so much potential in leveling, when it would just create timeline inconsistencies? It just seems pointless.
    this question was asked several times, the answer is that because in this suggestion I wanted Gilneas City to become an alliance capital. traditionally main capitals are placed in starting zones (Stormwind is in Elwyn, Undercity is in Tristifal Glades, etc.) and having an Alliance city in an end-game zone seems out of place.

    having Gilneas as a high level zone is also another option.the purpose of this suggestion thread is not to argue which option is better, to have Gilneas as a lowbie zone or a high-end zone for high level players.

  9. #109
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    LET OPERATION W.O.R.G COMMENCE! (Worgen Operatives Retake Gilneas

  10. #110
    Warchief TheDangerZone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by banestalker View Post
    this question was asked several times, the answer is that because in this suggestion I wanted Gilneas City to become an alliance capital. traditionally main capitals are placed in starting zones (Stormwind is in Elwyn, Undercity is in Tristifal Glades, etc.) and having an Alliance city in an end-game zone seems out of place.

    having Gilneas as a high level zone is also another option.the purpose of this suggestion thread is not to argue which option is better, to have Gilneas as a lowbie zone or a high-end zone for high level players.
    Uh.

    Then for what is it?

    I mean, it kinda has to be part of the discussion I'd presume.

    If you force the level of the zone so that Gilneas can be a capital is wasteful on principle and it hardly could be argued as common sense.

    Gilneas City doesn't need to be a capital, specially if the way you go about it is detrimental to the gameplay experience,

    But I do wonder, how would a Main city on a high level contested area play out? It could be a very interesting concept I thibk, and it would enrich the world both lore and pvp wise.

    The area would play simmilar to wintergrasp with a siege mechanic, but victory would be measured in terms of succesful raids, not control over the city.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by GennGreymane View Post
    LET OPERATION W.O.R.G COMMENCE! (Worgen Operatives Retake Gilneas
    Gretchen, stop trying to make fetch happen. It's not funny, it's not the least bit clever, it's borderline spam.

  11. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by Amonra View Post
    Uh.

    Then for what is it?

    I mean, it kinda has to be part of the discussion I'd presume.

    If you force the level of the zone so that Gilneas can be a capital is wasteful on principle and it hardly could be argued as common sense.

    Gilneas City doesn't need to be a capital, specially if the way you go about it is detrimental to the gameplay experience,

    But I do wonder, how would a Main city on a high level contested area play out? It could be a very interesting concept I thibk, and it would enrich the world both lore and pvp wise.

    The area would play simmilar to wintergrasp with a siege mechanic, but victory would be measured in terms of succesful raids, not control over the city.
    Don't get me wrong I didn't mean to limit the conversation. it's just that most of the time discussions such as this turn into arguments about "option A is better than option B" and vice versa. anyway the actual reason that I made Gilneas a lowbie zone is that I like Gilneas to stay an Alliance zone, and we know that high level zones cannot be faction exclusive. so in order to turn Gilneas into a high level zone we have to turn it into a battleground or a contested territory locked in a fight between Horde and Alliance.

    As stated in my first thread, Worgen players are already feeling like a drag (at least those who care about the lore do.) they have no home, just a bunch of trees here and there (one in Darnassus, one in Felwood, one in Blasted Lands with a hostile Worgen inside, oh and some tents and wagons in Duskwood.) when you play a Worgen you don't feel like you belong anywhere, you're like a gypsy traveling the world with your house on your back. Goblins on the other hand have turned Azshara into a small paradise in a short notice.

    and giving Gilneas into Worgen is a popular demand by the players, (I've seen and read about it alot, I talked to people and asked about their opinion, also the polls on this thread show this too (not that MMO-Champ represents the majority of the community but it does represent a portion of players) )

    I did my best to make the suggested zone as less problematic as possible for Horde players (by adding a 10-20 zone I removed the problem of Silverpine becoming a 10-20 contested zone.) and keeping the main goal I had in mind which is making Gilneas City a major city for Alliance players and Gilneas itself an alliance zone.

  12. #112
    Old God adam86shadow's Avatar
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    In theory yes

    In practice HELL NO!

    I would rather Blizzard focus on more important things than completely redesigning a zone + quests for little more than adding another empty city that only a minority will use

  13. #113
    Quote Originally Posted by adam86shadow View Post
    In theory yes

    In practice HELL NO!

    I would rather Blizzard focus on more important things than completely redesigning a zone + quests for little more than adding another empty city that only a minority will use
    addressed in my first post.

  14. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by banestalker View Post
    I don't know, Varian's final speech kinda hinted at him being the "bigger guy" perhaps their trust can be worked on in a peace conference and Thrall guaranteeing something to Varian. (Varian is no longer the hotheaded guy he used to be.)
    He doesn't trust the Horde. He doesn't like the Horde. He has no reason to do either and the fact he is willing to end the war and give them one last chance doesn't change that. He is giving the Horde something it doesn't deserve...another chance to prove itself and the only reason he is doing that is because the small part of the Horde that actually stood up to Garrosh is now in power. Foolishness of course, as that small part was also step by step with Garrosh until recently but what can you do? Gameplay and all that.

    Put another way - there is no guarantee Thrall or anyone else can offer that can make the Alliance trust or liki the Horde.

    but a peace treaty cannot be possible if Alliance keeps the occupied lands to itself, it might be a temporary peace as the Horde might demand to reclaim what they've lost after they regain their full strength.
    As for a Peace treaty - the Horde won't accept a Peace treaty with the Alliance occupying lands (lands the Horde didn't really occupy or control or even have a major presence on) but the Alliance is supposed to accept a Treaty with the Horde continuing an occupation of lands the Horde conquered in an unprovoked war of aggression. Lands that are of historical and spiritual importance to the NElfs. After a war in which the Horde store itself apart and can no "realistically" longer make demands?

    There's a disconnect there. A major disconnect. Especially when it is in the Hordes interest to abandon its outposts and warfronts. If the Horde needs to get new territories, then it should be expanding its control into lands the Alliance doesn't have a claim to. Forget Azshara...but take Tanaris. Give up Desolace and Feralas, but take the Basin and the Tundra in Northrend. Let the Alliance keep the Southern Barrens and the rampaging savages therein but let the Horde take Un'goro. Let the Alliance take back the wastelands of Silithus, but bring the Tol'vir and Uldum (at least some) into the Horde.

    Nor should the Horde ever be a threat to the Alliance again. They don't need to be friends, or act like it, but their "full strength" should be many decades off. As it is, the Horde threw everything it had and more at the Alliance...and the Alliance fended off Deathwing and the Zandalari and the Cataclysm at the same time, fought and took down the Thunder King and held off the Horde and did so without a full mobilisation of its strength.

    The HvA story has been done. It needs to end - especially because its a story Blizzard can't bring to a good conclusion for either side. Blizzard remaking the Horde into a superpower yet again able to threaten the Alliance is a story that should not ever happen again. The Horde has suffered FIVE devastating civil wars, four in the past five years. The BElfs, Forsaken, Tauren, and Orcs have all torn themselves to bits in many ways. These storylines need to end. A few rag tag nations vs the worlds three superowers should not be a major conflict.

    Humans always take the leading role especially when it comes to Eastern Kingdoms. however they should pass the "leading role" to the Night Elves and the Draenei in Kalimdor (Draenei really need to do something, they're just eating dust lore-wise.)
    Humans having the leading role everywhere is the problem. Giving them extra expsoure in Kalimdor and Lordaeron is not unly unnecessary, it is detrimental.

    I don't think it can be solved by improving phasing, because in general player's cannot see other players who are in another phase. or players may simply vanish when entering a zone (because they are in a different phase.) so how can you improve that?
    By (as one example) having the party leader determine phase for the group.

    The key point being that Blizzard CAN craft a Treaty and resolution that a: gives the Alliance what it wants b: gives the Horde what it needs and c: do so without requiring much/any change in the actual gameworld.

    EJL
    Last edited by Talen; 2013-10-02 at 07:26 PM.

  15. #115
    Warchief TheDangerZone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by banestalker View Post
    Don't get me wrong I didn't mean to limit the conversation. it's just that most of the time discussions such as this turn into arguments about "option A is better than option B" and vice versa. anyway the actual reason that I made Gilneas a lowbie zone is that I like Gilneas to stay an Alliance zone, and we know that high level zones cannot be faction exclusive. so in order to turn Gilneas into a high level zone we have to turn it into a battleground or a contested territory locked in a fight between Horde and Alliance.

    As stated in my first thread, Worgen players are already feeling like a drag (at least those who care about the lore do.) they have no home, just a bunch of trees here and there (one in Darnassus, one in Felwood, one in Blasted Lands with a hostile Worgen inside, oh and some tents and wagons in Duskwood.) when you play a Worgen you don't feel like you belong anywhere, you're like a gypsy traveling the world with your house on your back. Goblins on the other hand have turned Azshara into a small paradise in a short notice.

    and giving Gilneas into Worgen is a popular demand by the players, (I've seen and read about it alot, I talked to people and asked about their opinion, also the polls on this thread show this too (not that MMO-Champ represents the majority of the community but it does represent a portion of players) )

    I did my best to make the suggested zone as less problematic as possible for Horde players (by adding a 10-20 zone I removed the problem of Silverpine becoming a 10-20 contested zone.) and keeping the main goal I had in mind which is making Gilneas City a major city for Alliance players and Gilneas itself an alliance zone.
    I understand, but I believe it's one of the core aspects of the discussion. How to make Gilneas as a capital work?

    I dismiss the idea of re-tuning the area as a leveling experience, because it damages the gameplay, the flow of the storyline (it would be a pocket future to then return to the past at lvl 20) and would waste any potential the zone had as a high lvl zone.

    That doesn't mean Gilneas shouldn't be an alliance city, but I do believe this is an opportunity of making it exciting. Making Gilneas a city with all the amenabilities while there is a ravaging war outside would be a exciting idea. Captured objectives through the area would give factions diferent bonus. Faction specific plots would be the rebuilding of Gilneas on the southern portion and effective retaking of half of the kingdom, as the horde plot would be trying to at least remain a presence on Gilneas and annex the northernmost territories to Silverpine, trying to prevent Gilneas becoming a staging point for an attack the Undercity.

    My point is, yes, let's make Gilneas a city (and let's make all cities important now that we are on it) but make it a new experience, instead rehashing a model at the end of the day will only leave another ghost city.

  16. #116
    Quote Originally Posted by Talen View Post
    He doesn't trust the Horde. He doesn't like the Horde. He has no reason to do either and the fact he is willing to end the war and give them one last chance doesn't change that. He is giving the Horde something it doesn't deserve...another chance to prove itself and the only reason he is doing that is because the small part of the Horde that actually stood up to Garrosh is now in power. Foolishness of course, as that small part was also step by step with Garrosh until recently but what can you do? Gameplay and all that.
    you don't know that, I don't know that. There are many elements in Horde that favor peace with Alliance : Baine, Lorthemar and Thrall being the major characters with desire for peace. One of the reasons being that Orcs, the old enemies of humans, do not count as "the ruling majority" within the Horde anymore. at the moment the only major character capable of challenging Voljin's authority and jeopardizing peace is Sylvanas. and it is hinted by Varian that players ARE going to visit Gilneas soon, however we don't know the true extend of this visit. are we going there with armies? or are we going to help a bunch of hippie druids heal plants and animals? perhaps both?

    and as you mentioned, they must do it for sake of gameplay. you can't expect Horde to become alliance boot-lickers and puppets while in reality a losing side normally does that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Talen View Post
    As for a Peace treaty - the Horde won't accept a Peace treaty with the Alliance occupying lands (lands the Horde didn't really occupy or control or even have a major presence on) but the Alliance is supposed to accept a Treaty with the Horde continuing an occupation of lands the Horde conquered in an unprovoked war of aggression. Lands that are of historical and spiritual importance to the NElfs. After a war in which the Horde store itself apart and can no "realistically" longer make demands?
    I don't see any Alliance lands on Kalimdor currently controled by Horde. we defeated them in Darkshore, Tyrande routed Warsong during SoO and Azshara never had any major Alliance presence.

    Quote Originally Posted by Talen View Post
    The HvA story has been done. It needs to end - especially because its a story Blizzard can't bring to a good conclusion for either side.
    focusing on HvA was the main thing i liked about Cataclysm and MoP. it fact they should do more of that storyline, let Alliance contain forsaken threat while Horde is at it's weakest, and let Horde harass alliance in some other front.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Amonra View Post
    I understand, but I believe it's one of the core aspects of the discussion. How to make Gilneas as a capital work?

    I dismiss the idea of re-tuning the area as a leveling experience, because it damages the gameplay, the flow of the storyline (it would be a pocket future to then return to the past at lvl 20) and would waste any potential the zone had as a high lvl zone.

    That doesn't mean Gilneas shouldn't be an alliance city, but I do believe this is an opportunity of making it exciting. Making Gilneas a city with all the amenabilities while there is a ravaging war outside would be a exciting idea. Captured objectives through the area would give factions diferent bonus. Faction specific plots would be the rebuilding of Gilneas on the southern portion and effective retaking of half of the kingdom, as the horde plot would be trying to at least remain a presence on Gilneas and annex the northernmost territories to Silverpine, trying to prevent Gilneas becoming a staging point for an attack the Undercity.

    My point is, yes, let's make Gilneas a city (and let's make all cities important now that we are on it) but make it a new experience, instead rehashing a model at the end of the day will only leave another ghost city.
    How would you feel if Brill and other towns around Undercity suddently turn into PVP objectives and Horde and Alliance forces would fight to control so close to Undercity? you can't have a major city and then build an open world PVP right next to it, it'll be too hectic and there will be raids on that city on a daily basis.

    as I said it before, the main reason that cities turn into ghost towns is that many important things are only found in SW and Org. like portals and pvp vendors, i think transmog vendors are also found only in those towns, which makes players not interested in those areas.

  17. #117
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    Unfortunately, as long as the Undead hole Lordaeron with the psycho queen up in there, the Alliance won't hold Gilneas, it'd be a never ending battle between the Alliance and the Undead.
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  18. #118
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    why isnt kul tiras in WoW yet?

  19. #119
    Quote Originally Posted by Lansworthy View Post
    Unfortunately, as long as the Undead hole Lordaeron with the psycho queen up in there, the Alliance won't hold Gilneas, it'd be a never ending battle between the Alliance and the Undead.
    the horde strength pre-SoO would've made any attempts by Alliance to retake Gilneas futile. Alliance can seize this opportunity and contain the forsaken while the horde is at it's weakest state. what im refering to is not eradication of forsaken, but a containment plan which leads to the Alliance taking control of Gilneas, Purgation Isle and Stromgarde and use those bases to keep forsaken activity in check.

  20. #120
    Quote Originally Posted by banestalker View Post
    the horde strength pre-SoO would've made any attempts by Alliance to retake Gilneas futile. Alliance can seize this opportunity and contain the forsaken while the horde is at it's weakest state.
    Alliance is at their weakest too.

    Unless they magicaly replenished all those loses from the last few wars.
    The common man is like a worm in the gut of a corpse, trapped inside a prison of cold flesh, helpless and uncaring, unaware even of the inevitability of its own doom.

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