View Poll Results: What do you think of the "Epic" proc?

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  • It's a good idea, I like it.

    52 24.19%
  • Good premise, but I'd go about it differently (post).

    39 18.14%
  • I prefer things as they are.

    124 57.67%
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  1. #1
    I am Murloc! Aviemore's Avatar
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    Question Can we meaningfully make "Epic" mean "Epic"?

    So, here’s the idea:

    All endgame gear is now blue by default, raid gear included. Rather than a Warforged proc, you get an Epic proc with a tertiary or a socket.

    This is to stop item level bloat, remove some of the RNG from achieving your BiS, and to return “Epic” to actually meaning epic (as opposed to “expected”).

    Vote appropriately.

    That’s the TL, DR.

    --------------------------------

    I reckon endgame gearing has lost some of its lustre. When push comes to shove, “epic” gear isn’t epic anymore and is simply the expected reward for doing most things… Particularly post launch. Now, clearly, people will claim that colour doesn’t matter in gear – purple is as good as anything else. But while I disagree, there are some more objective reasons to have a look at it.

    1) I believe Warforged is a problem. I dislike the fact that it’s yet another double-random reward, but I also have problems with the power creep that it introduces to the game. Item level inflation has gotten out of hand within the space of a single expansion, and probably needs reined in yet again.

    2) The other issue I have with Warforged is that it artificially extends gearing lists. The excitement of seeing your best item drop is diluted when it isn’t Warforged, and doesn’t have a gem socket. It’s frustrating when the only Warforged procs you ever see come in the gear you’re sharding because nobody needs it.

    3) It’s confusing. What’s better; a Warforged item, or one with a socket? Fuck knows. Unless you run simulators, which only a tiny percentage of players do, you’ve no idea what the better choice is. It’s a toss up. Simplifying the system seems like a good way to make gear more readily understandable.

    4) Epic should be epic. You should be impressed when you see someone decked out in full purple, and now, nobody is. The definition of an epic item simply isn’t true anymore, because the game largely showers you in them. I’m not sure that’s a particularly good situation, if there’s a solution to it.

    So, my concept, is simply the epic proc. Every endgame item, whether from dungeons, raids, PvP, crafting, currency or world BoE should be blue by default with a chance for an “Epic” proc. The proc doesn’t increase item level, it simply provides either a gem socket, a tertiary stat tuned to be useful, or… A proc! Legion taking out multistrike makes the possible proc obvious, but let your imagination run wild. Just ensure that tuning is appropriate across the three possible epic procs, and we’re set.

    This system achieves a solution for all of the problems listed above because it slows item inflation, decreases the convolution of BiS list gearing, is much easier to readily understand, and makes epic items feel “epic” again.

    Vote away.
    Last edited by Aviemore; 2015-10-27 at 09:34 AM.
    'This community deserves an apology'.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    No, the obvious fact is that this tweet supports the other evidence that Blizzard has no intention of ever implementing this class [demon hunter].
    Aye, I have an ever-growing canon of misery and negativity. Like this, this, this, this, this and this.

  2. #2
    I honestly thought you could have been describing diablo 3 with ancients and sockets

  3. #3
    I am Murloc! Aviemore's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by soulzek View Post
    I honestly thought you could have been describing diablo 3 with ancients and sockets
    It does read like that a bit, yeah. >.<

    The concept is quite a bit different functionally, though.
    'This community deserves an apology'.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    No, the obvious fact is that this tweet supports the other evidence that Blizzard has no intention of ever implementing this class [demon hunter].
    Aye, I have an ever-growing canon of misery and negativity. Like this, this, this, this, this and this.

  4. #4
    colors are worthless

    anyone who played vanilla could tell you that

  5. #5
    the idea is good, but it is no different than having meaningful raids like in vanilla...

    similarly, pvp epic gear should only be given to those willing to put in the time like the old high warlord / grand marshmallow titles

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by apples View Post
    colors are worthless

    anyone who played vanilla could tell you that
    A guy in full purple still made people look compared to a guy in greens.
    im cool pls respodn

  7. #7
    The Lightbringer GKLeatherCraft's Avatar
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    This just seems like thinly veiled moaning post about too many people having purple gear, As soon as you bring colour into it, You're clearly not talking about "ilvl bloat"

    Epic means Epic, Sorry that you don't think that, but that's the way it is, always has been, and always will be.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Krekal View Post
    A guy in full purple still made people look compared to a guy in greens.
    a guy in full purple would get destroyed by a guy in meaningful blues

    until a few patches in of course

  9. #9
    I actually found a meningful post on this forum that i like.

    Thumbs up!

    You could add, that every boss has ONE always-epic drop (rest were proccable), you could get (with a socket). This could be different slot for each boss, which made replaying the dungoun/raid more exiting. In Doungouns, this would also only be the end boss.

  10. #10
    I am Murloc! Bigbazz's Avatar
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    Yeah this is not gonna happen, unless you just forgot about the last 2 expansions where they gave Legendaries to LFR cruisers and in the next expansion everyone is getting Ashbringer... They are going in the complete opposite direction to what you're suggesting and they always have been.
    I7 2600k @4.5ghz : 16GB DDR3 : GTX670 : Firestudio : Naga : G27

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by apples View Post
    a guy in full purple would get destroyed by a guy in meaningful blues

    until a few patches in of course

    what class did you play in pvp that a blue geared player had any chance at trashing a player with epic gear?

    it doesnt count if the person playing the class sucks... its the same right now...

  12. #12
    Blizzard should really put some old RPG veteran with a grounded mind in charge of the gear design. It's just gone haywire in the last couple of years.

    What made gearing fun:
    * Each item existed in one or two versions, with no rng.
    * You could customize your gear with enchants, gems and reforging to fit your spec.
    * Bosses dropped less pieces of gear so getting "BiS" felt like you've accomplished something and gave you a tangible goal to work towards.
    * You couldn't upgrade the iLvl meaning the item was ready to use once you got it.
    * iLvl jumps were smaller so your gear was relevant longer.
    * Next tier easy mode gear should never be better than current tier hard mode gear. Invalidating your efforts is not a good way to go.
    * 4 tiers instead of 2 per expansion really made you care about character progression.
    * Top end gear could easily be used in the first tier of the next expansion and not be invalidated by questing greens.

  13. #13
    I am Murloc! Aviemore's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wowaccounttom View Post
    the idea is good, but it is no different than having meaningful raids like in vanilla...

    similarly, pvp epic gear should only be given to those willing to put in the time like the old high warlord / grand marshmallow titles
    Yeah, PvP gear is convoluted and I should maybe not have mentioned it. It's a different animal altogether, really. To a certain extent, I also think things like set bonuses should probably also be epic by default, too.

    I'm not sure I agree that High Warlord/Grand Marshal is the way to go, but I agree with what I think your general premise is.

    Quote Originally Posted by GKLeatherCraft View Post
    This just seems like thinly veiled moaning post about too many people having purple gear, As soon as you bring colour into it, You're clearly not talking about "ilvl bloat"

    Epic means Epic, Sorry that you don't think that, but that's the way it is, always has been, and always will be.
    The percentage of people wearing epic gear has risen, dramatically. That's a fact, and not something anyone would reasonably dispute.

    The purpose of using colours to differentiate is explained in the post - it's a way of keeping meaningful procs in gear, but making them less random and more easily understandable. Change the colours, if you like, that's not the point of the post. The reason I'm using blue to purple is, quite simply, because that's what the game currently uses and has since its inception.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vidget View Post
    Blizzard should really put some old RPG veteran with a grounded mind in charge of the gear design. It's just gone haywire in the last couple of years.
    I agree. This would in no way fix all of the problems, but I like to think it'd be a start.

    Also, @Bigbazz - yeah, that's true. But I don't think it's good for the game, really.
    'This community deserves an apology'.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    No, the obvious fact is that this tweet supports the other evidence that Blizzard has no intention of ever implementing this class [demon hunter].
    Aye, I have an ever-growing canon of misery and negativity. Like this, this, this, this, this and this.

  14. #14
    Aside from the gain of power, I think making current epics less epics (like 90% of epics should not be epic) can make the game better, increase the incentive to play, and make it more meaningful to get such equipement, now we don't bother and I think it was a design mistake that was applied a long time ago (but did not contributed to the success of the game) and not changed for some reasons.

  15. #15
    The whole "epic items aren't epic" thing is one of the greatest non-issues ever talked about on these forums.

    The Mythic tag on your items is the new epic. Deal with it.

  16. #16
    The Lightbringer
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aviemore View Post
    2) The other issue I have with Warforged is that it artificially extends gearing lists. The excitement of seeing your best item drop is diluted when it isn’t Warforged, and doesn’t have a gem socket. It’s frustrating when the only Warforged procs you ever see come in the gear you’re sharding because nobody needs it.
    You're probably not going to want to hear this but... you're playing the game wrong.

    The objective of the game is to progress your character through the content. While getting better gear certainly helps with this objective, getting the best possible gear in every slot is in and of itself a meaningless objective because that goalpost is always moving. Gear is simply a means to an end, never intended to be the end itself - or the actual objective of the game.

    The whole point of Warforged and socketed gear is that as long as you are working at it, you can continue to improve your character's power, thus bringing you a bit closer to defeating the next encounter. It was specifically designed to NOT be a checklist that you tick off.

  17. #17
    I am Murloc! Aviemore's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FpicEail View Post
    The whole "epic items aren't epic" thing is one of the greatest non-issues ever talked about on these forums.

    The Mythic tag on your items is the new epic. Deal with it.
    That's why I talked about several other issues.

    Did you not bother to read that far? I even put in a TL, DR for those with painfully short attention spans.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raelbo View Post
    The whole point of Warforged and socketed gear is that as long as you are working at it, you can continue to improve your character's power, thus bringing you a bit closer to defeating the next encounter. It was specifically designed to NOT be a checklist that you tick off.
    Are you honestly arguing that players don't chase gear as a reward in and of itself, or create BiS lists in order to get there?

    Honestly?

    15 posts and the trolls descend.

    Could be a new record.
    'This community deserves an apology'.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    No, the obvious fact is that this tweet supports the other evidence that Blizzard has no intention of ever implementing this class [demon hunter].
    Aye, I have an ever-growing canon of misery and negativity. Like this, this, this, this, this and this.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by wowaccounttom View Post
    what class did you play in pvp that a blue geared player had any chance at trashing a player with epic gear?

    it doesnt count if the person playing the class sucks... its the same right now...
    rog

    unless you wanted int on your gear you wore scholo stuff. your epic was your dagger.

    this was true for just about every class

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by FpicEail View Post
    The whole "epic items aren't epic" thing is one of the greatest non-issues ever talked about on these forums.

    The Mythic tag on your items is the new epic. Deal with it.
    "But nobody sees that!"

    Nobody sees what you're actually wearing since you've transmogged it anyway, should they also remove transmog so that a few players can feel their clown costume is better than the average clown costume?

    Equipment is quickly becoming irrelevant as systems like Artifacts get added. Stats can be obtained through interfaces and talent trees, and everything else is cosmetic.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Soulwind View Post
    "But nobody sees that!"

    Nobody sees what you're actually wearing since you've transmogged it anyway, should they also remove transmog so that a few players can feel their clown costume is better than the average clown costume?

    Equipment is quickly becoming irrelevant as systems like Artifacts get added. Stats can be obtained through interfaces and talent trees, and everything else is cosmetic.
    godbless as well

    this is how gear should work

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