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  1. #1
    The Lightbringer TheEaterofSouls's Avatar
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    According To Preach DPS Have No Control.

    I just got done watching one of preaches videos onpotential legion changes. He seemed really mad about the direction blizzard is taking with DPS. According to preach dps have little to no control over the amount of damage they actually do. Everything is controlled by rng currently in wod. Is he right about this? Is dps really this shitty? Does performance mean very little. I wonder if blizzard will attempt to address the issue if it's there. What's your take on the issue?

    Video: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5nLveO9IPg

  2. #2
    Stood in the Fire Arch0s's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheEaterofSouls View Post
    I just got done watching one of preaches videos onpotential legion changes. He seemed really mad about the direction blizzard is taking with DPS. According to preach dps have little to no control over the amount of damage they actually do. Everything is controlled by rng currently in wod. Is he right about this? Is dps really this shitty? Does performance mean very little. I wonder if blizzard will attempt to address the issue if it's there. What's your take on the issue?

    Video: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5nLveO9IPg
    He has some very valid and interesting points.

    RNG has certainly become a greater factor in maintaining optimum dps however skill / practice is not entirely negligible either.

    I believe if you're pushing for high-end / cutting edge progression the RNG factor is certainly a noticeable problem but, if you're doing LFR etc. It might not be fun but, it won't stop you from progressing.

    Personally I'd like to see a lot more control in future over buffs etc. But, we all know this would just lead to ridiculous buff stacking.
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  3. #3
    Pandaren Monk
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    That's true when you're playing your class to a very high level. In LFR players doing shit dps are not getting screwed by RNG they just suck. But at high levels of play it is rather RNG based. Ofc top players will always find way to manipulate it to their advantage but there are less and less ways to do that.

  4. #4
    Blademaster dookieffs's Avatar
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    Well, no matter what class you play you still need to have consistent rotation in order to perform above average, especially in fights on mythic difficulty where encounter lasts 4+mins at least.

  5. #5
    Field Marshal
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    Even though RNG is a greater factor now then it was before, doesnt make PvE more RNG. RNG=PvE. SO many classes relied on RNG before WoD there might be a few new ones due to all the class changes but in the end that doesnt really mather. Lets take a group of 10 damage dealers, before WoD, 7 of those were consistent low RNG dps specs. Now thats changed to 5. Yes in one run/wipe it has a greater inpact, but RNG can also be in your favor in the end there is a high chance it will balance out. And like Arch0s pointed out you wont be affected in LFR, normal meaby even Heroic unless you are really unlucky or just a bad player.

    Wiping on mythic is a given fact while progressing. Im not saying its good nor bad but saying RNG is having a bigger role is not true its just different.

  6. #6
    RNG when done right is part of what can make the gameplay engaging for some players.
    The need to react to the unknown, instead of looking at fixed timers and pressing the right buttons as soon as something lights up.
    That is really what we had with the more substantial snapshotting implementation, and what its reduction and wide use of RRPM trinkets are meant to deal with.
    The problem which is inherent to any sort of random is there are going to be good results and bad results, good and bad timing for specific conditions or combinations to occur.
    It is easy to go on about, or I could say to "preach" about the worst examples while not wanting to talk about the examples where RNG was on your side, where it favored you.
    Last edited by ComputerNerd; 2015-10-26 at 07:34 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by DeadmanWalking View Post
    Your forgot to include the part where we blame casuals for everything because blizzard is catering to casuals when casuals got jack squat for new content the entire expansion, like new dungeons and scenarios.
    Quote Originally Posted by Reinaerd View Post
    T'is good to see there are still people valiantly putting the "Ass" in assumption.

  7. #7
    Two words
    Soul.
    Capacitor.

    When they talked about removing snapshotting I was like "alright ok, let's see what you make of it". And the game is even more RNG dependent now.

  8. #8
    In a lot of ways he's right. Trinket procs, raid-wide cooldowns, boss vulnerability phases, and things like the Legendary Ring cooldown make it difficult to forecast how much DPS a given rotation will actually output. There is skill in playing each class, but the skill of "how well can you adapt your rotation to RNG procs" is disproportionately displacing knowing your rotation and performing it.

  9. #9
    Immortal tobindax's Avatar
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    Arcane mage is a bit crappy at the moment. You will hear a lot of mages treating it like some kind of untouchable holy grail at the moment. But in reality it's a mess of RNG especially because of the Mannoroth trinket that may give swings of up to +/-20K(yes, plus or minus 20,000DPS), and even at its core it's quite RNG based because of the randomness of Arcane Missiles during a burn.

    Cata Arcane was better. Simple. Some whined it's too simple but it was proper.

  10. #10
    Banned Lei Shi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tobindax View Post
    Cata Arcane was better. Simple. Some whined it's too simple but it was proper.
    Cata Arcane was 90% Arcane Blast spam, 1 button. In WoD you need 7 buttons to do well.

  11. #11
    There will always be some amount of rng variance when it comes to dps, even crit itself is an RNG stat even if your spec isn't based around it. But I really hate when they introduce rng as fuck items like Prophecy, Soul Capacitor etc. It's like they run out of ideas and just do w/e the fuck.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lei Shi View Post
    Cata Arcane was 90% Arcane Blast spam, 1 button. In WoD you need 7 buttons to do well.
    Lmfao.gif

  12. #12
    Immortal tobindax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lei Shi View Post
    Cata Arcane was 90% Arcane Blast spam, 1 button. In WoD you need 7 buttons to do well.

    I bet you didn't play Arcane as a main. It was almost identical to the difficulties it has now. It was and is highly immobile unless it's planned very well and it likes predictability.

    I find it still simple to rotate.

    But it's too much RNG.

  13. #13
    Scarab Lord Tehterokkar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dookieffs View Post
    Well, no matter what class you play you still need to have consistent rotation in order to perform above average, especially in fights on mythic difficulty where encounter lasts 4+mins at least.
    Ayy top kek.. Without double checking, I believe all fights except for Gorefiend, Iskar, Mannoroth and Archimonde have sub-4 min kills

  14. #14
    RNG vs. Control is a much more deep-seated issue than just DPS by the way...

  15. #15
    Banned Lei Shi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tobindax View Post
    I find it still simple to rotate.
    I bet you only play it in LFR. I already played Arcane when you were still in your diapers.

  16. #16
    Pit Lord Murderdoll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dookieffs View Post
    Well, no matter what class you play you still need to have consistent rotation in order to perform above average, especially in fights on mythic difficulty where encounter lasts 4+mins at least.
    They arent arguing about a consistent rotation not being needed.

    The argument is that between pulls, someones actual damage done can fluctuate wildly purely based on luck.

    An Elemental Shaman for example can, on the pull get procs out of their arse and look really good on X pull. Three pulls later, they still cannot reproduce those numbers because it was simply luck. Theres very little consistency for some classes especially on a fight that lasted 4-5 minutes. You really need those 8 minute fights to even it out.

    This is extremely troublesome when you get to targets that need to die ASAP. Quickfuse bombs, Spirits, Infernals etc. You have someone who doesnt get lucky on them and they die slowly, get lucky, they melt.

    As someone point out above. Soul Capacitor can be other heartbreaking or it can make your night and on some fights, I know atleast for Enhance, its the top damage done. You cant rely on RNG for such large make ups of damage.
    Last edited by Murderdoll; 2015-10-26 at 07:58 PM.

  17. #17
    Immortal tobindax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lei Shi View Post
    I bet you only play it in LFR. I already played Arcane when you were still in your diapers.

    > Implying

    I restarted very recently but I have 4 mythic progress kills, 2 of them on arcane.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Murderdoll View Post
    As someone point out above. Soul Capacitor can be other heartbreaking or it can make your night and on some fights, I know atleast for Enhance, its the top damage done. You cant rely on RNG for such large make ups of damage.
    I died during Tyrant last week, had 9 Soul Cap proccs and still was first in DPS because of that.

  19. #19
    It's generally true. Because I can't do any realistic pooling for on-demand burst, I hate PPM because I get nothing out of a DSI proc unless it lines up with my CDs. And so I sit around waiting for the proc, then blow my CDs, but realistically I'm forced to just use my CDs with the ring because it's way stronger than DSI.

    On a tangent, I fucking hate this ring design. It's so stupid.

    In general, PPM is fine for classes that can take advantage of it. There should be competitive on-use trinkets or flat stat trinkets for those that can't, and the raid-wide ring use effect is just literal aids. Not only is it stupid for the fact that not all CDs have a 2m CD, but you have idiots in LFR and dungeons popping the ring on single trash pulls because they've macroed it.

    There's a reason virtually all the fast kills on bosses start with lust at the pull.

  20. #20
    I'd say its more prevalent for some classes than it is others.
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