Putin Bans Protests In Sochi During Olympics

[Deleted]

This is absolutely false. Gorby's plans were good but left Russia in a dreadful economical state. Russia under Putin economically has improved massively.

Under Putin, Russia has only managed to rebuild part of the industrial infrastructure that they had in the soviet era. And while it's true that Putin's political father had dismantled the soviet industry, stealing everything that wasn't nailed down, and bringing heavy crowbars for what was nailed down, Putin has had enough time to do it. He didn't.
Not because he doesn't want to, but because he decided to spend Russia's energies in futile and criminal little adventures like Chechnya.

Gorby's plans were working. The dreadful economic state was how Brezhnev had left it, which is why the CPSU was willing to place an aperturist as General Secretary, and under Gorby's aperturism, liberalization and democratization, the Soviet economy was recovering quickly. The Soviet Union could have been the "China" before China did it itself.

[Deleted]

Under Putin, Russia has only managed to rebuild part of the industrial infrastructure that they had in the soviet era. And while it's true that Putin's political father had dismantled the soviet industry, stealing everything that wasn't nailed down, and bringing heavy crowbars for what was nailed down, Putin has had enough time to do it. He didn't.
Not because he doesn't want to, but because he decided to spend Russia's energies in futile and criminal little adventures like Chechnya.

Gorby's plans were working. The dreadful economic state was how Brezhnev had left it, which is why the CPSU was willing to place an aperturist as General Secretary, and under Gorby's aperturism, liberalization and democratization, the Soviet economy was recovering quickly. The Soviet Union could have been the "China" before China did it itself.

Eeeeh not really. Gorby's opening brought a breath of fresh air in a system not ready for it. They were good ideas, but they werent working. It was a step that needed to be taken. You're right; Russia could have been china. They decided not to and became a superpower again without having to sell their ass. I like that to be honest. Every country has its own Chechnya.
Putin had the time to do it that's true. But he did it nonetheless. There's many things one can say about Putin, but the economic recovery Russia experienced under his power is remarkable.

[Felya]

There's many things one can say about Putin, but the economic recovery Russia experienced under his power is remarkable.

Than what would you call the economic growth of India and Brazil during the same time period? Considering the infustracture he started with, as opposed to that of Brazil and India, it's not that great.

How about Germany? Poland went more than 5 times their GDP in the same time period.

[Deleted]

Eeeeh not really. Gorby's opening brought a breath of fresh air in a system not ready for it. They were good ideas, but they werent working. It was a step that needed to be taken. You're right; Russia could have been china. They decided not to and became a superpower again without having to sell their ass. I like that to be honest. Every country has its own Chechnya.
Putin had the time to do it that's true. But he did it nonetheless. There's many things one can say about Putin, but the economic recovery Russia experienced under his power is remarkable.

USSR GNP (according to the CIA factbook):
1984: 1715 billion$
1989: 2500 billion$

In 5 years, the Soviet economy grew a 50%, and in fact managed to rematch the traditional size of being half the USA. For note, nowadays, the GNP of the USA is 6.4 times bigger than that of Russia, and 4.2 times bigger than the combined GNP of the former USSR.

So, don't tell me it wasn't working. It was working well. Too well, as the political liberalization maybe went too fast for what the USSR structures could survive (the insurrection of the hardliners and opportunism of Putin's godfather), and Gorbachov wasn't one to use the force against political oponents.

And no, not every country has its own Chechnya. In Europe, after the WWII, the only thing that comes close was what Serbia did in Bosnia and Kosovo.

[Tackhisis]

Constitution is not a law.

All the kinds of pickets and demonstrations are governed solely by a Civil Law. Such actions without permissions are infractions of the said law.

[Mithfin]

At least the Russian economy isn't as horrible as it used to be.

Yea.


Definitely Pukin's achievement.

[Rukentuts]

Yea.


Definitely Pukin's achievement.

Oil prices don't reflect a total economy.

[Mithfin]

For Russia, they do. There is no significant export apart from natural resources. No oil trade -> no connection to the world economy -> encapsulation of national currency -> hyperinflation.

[Rukentuts]

For Russia, they do. There is no significant export apart from natural resources. No oil trade -> no connection to the world economy -> encapsulation of national currency -> hyperinflation.

GDP per capita is the best economic measurement.

[Bakis]

Sad that the cost of hosting the olympics make totalitarian countries eligible as host.

[Mithfin]

GDP per capita is the best economic measurement.

No shit, Sherlock.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ru...rt_Treemap.jpg

Exports $542.5 billion (2012 est.)

GDP $ 2.022 Trillion (2012, IMF)

Russian economy IS heavily dependent on the raw natural resources export, not to mention various refine industries. Natural resources price increase was the only reason of 2000's economic boost - not some Putin's magic.

Sad that the cost of hosting the olympics make totalitarian countries eligible as host.

Yea.

Vancouver 2010 CDN$9.2 billion
London 2012 US$13.9 billion
Beijing 2008 US$43 billion
Sochi 2014 Estimated US$50 billion

And some people talk about "economic boost" and "profit for country". There is no profit for country in that crap - only for a limited group of people.

[Deleted]

USSR GNP (according to the CIA factbook):
1984: 1715 billion$
1989: 2500 billion$

In 5 years, the Soviet economy grew a 50%, and in fact managed to rematch the traditional size of being half the USA. For note, nowadays, the GNP of the USA is 6.4 times bigger than that of Russia, and 4.2 times bigger than the combined GNP of the former USSR.

So, don't tell me it wasn't working. It was working well. Too well, as the political liberalization maybe went too fast for what the USSR structures could survive (the insurrection of the hardliners and opportunism of Putin's godfather), and Gorbachov wasn't one to use the force against political oponents.

And no, not every country has its own Chechnya. In Europe, after the WWII, the only thing that comes close was what Serbia did in Bosnia and Kosovo.

Well, I find it funny arguing if Gorbachev's policies increased Russia's economy, when at the end the economy was in turmoil, the discontent finally had a voice (glasnost), and the eastern bloc dissolved...
I mean, facts do talk in a way.

- - - Updated - - -

No shit, Sherlock.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ru...rt_Treemap.jpg

Exports $542.5 billion (2012 est.)

GDP $ 2.022 Trillion (2012, IMF)

Russian economy IS heavily dependent on the raw natural resources export, not to mention various refine industries. Natural resources price increase was the only reason of 2000's economic boost - not some Putin's magic.



Yea.

Vancouver 2010 CDN$9.2 billion
London 2012 US$13.9 billion
Beijing 2008 US$43 billion
Sochi 2014 Estimated US$50 billion

And some people talk about "economic boost" and "profit for country". There is no profit for country in that crap - only for a limited group of people.

Well you can handle your resources properly or you can make a mess of it.

[Terrorwave]

Its a simple and easy fix for all this shit, TAKE THE GAME AWAY FROM RUSSIA!!!! on the premise that it is not safe for the supporters of the countries and of the athletes, as well as not safe for the athletes themselves

[Bakis]

Its a simple and easy fix for all this shit, TAKE THE GAME AWAY FROM RUSSIA!!!! on the premise that it is not safe for the supporters of the countries and of the athletes, as well as not safe for the athletes themselves

That wont happen the olympic committee is as corrupt as it gets.
They are payed off since years.

[icyfresh]

/watch?v=e4Z6r6vhQQ8
Russia in one old song, with subtitles

[Mithfin]

/watch?v=e4Z6r6vhQQ8
Russia in one old song, with subtitles

More like /watch?v=hWTFG3J1CP8

[Deleted]

Well, I find it funny arguing if Gorbachev's policies increased Russia's economy, when at the end the economy was in turmoil, the discontent finally had a voice (glasnost), and the eastern bloc dissolved...
I mean, facts do talk in a way.

At the end? 1989 was "at the end". In 1989 Poland had free elections and the Berlin Wall fell. In 1990 the COMECON was ended and many of their members became democratic. And even despite the turmoil, the economy was hardly hit, as all the western companies were queueing to get their share of the soviet economy.

Facts? The only fact is that the Soviet Union was steering a transition towards democracy and more liberal economy, and that transition was aborted by some sectors of the Red Army on one side and the urge to break the system so they could reap the spoils on Yeltsin's side. That's when the Russian economy crashed.

Gorbachov's error was not to liberalize the Soviet Union politically too fast. The Soviet Union fell because of a military coup and the action of opportunists, not because of the liberalization.

[Deleted]

At the end? 1989 was "at the end". In 1989 Poland had free elections and the Berlin Wall fell. In 1990 the COMECON was ended and many of their members became democratic. And even despite the turmoil, the economy was hardly hit, as all the western companies were queueing to get their share of the soviet economy.

Facts? The only fact is that the Soviet Union was steering a transition towards democracy and more liberal economy, and that transition was aborted by some sectors of the Red Army on one side and the urge to break the system so they could reap the spoils on Yeltsin's side. That's when the Russian economy crashed.

Gorbachov's error was not to liberalize the Soviet Union politically too fast. The Soviet Union fell because of a military coup and the action of opportunists, not because of the liberalization.

Uh no sorry no at all. The Soviet Union fell thanks to too much "glasnost". You can't run the eastern block like that for 60 years and then forget how you actually imposed your will and destroyed some countries and, blinded by your (Gorby not you ) complete detachment from reality, all of a sudden bring in the "glasnost".
I don't think they knew what was going to happen. And no anyway after this:
"Also during 1988, Gorbachev announced that the Soviet Union would abandon the Brezhnev Doctrine, and allow the Eastern bloc nations to freely determine their own internal affairs"
and the collapse on the eastern bloc, he kept going in 90 and 91 where the GNP fell 12 and 13% respectively.

Edit: sorry jotabe, I should add that I personally think Gorbachev has been extremely brave, and ultimately put an end to something that had to be ended. I agree with many of the things he did. So from an humanistic point of view FairPlay to him.
Strictly from a "Russian" point of view I'd say they could have handled it better (For example how china is doing basically what Russia did only at a much slower pace)

[Rukentuts]

No shit, Sherlock.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ru...rt_Treemap.jpg

Exports $542.5 billion (2012 est.)

GDP $ 2.022 Trillion (2012, IMF)

Russian economy IS heavily dependent on the raw natural resources export, not to mention various refine industries. Natural resources price increase was the only reason of 2000's economic boost - not some Putin's magic.



Yea.

Vancouver 2010 CDN$9.2 billion
London 2012 US$13.9 billion
Beijing 2008 US$43 billion
Sochi 2014 Estimated US$50 billion

And some people talk about "economic boost" and "profit for country". There is no profit for country in that crap - only for a limited group of people.

Except have you seen the Russian GDP since Putin took over? Excluding the financial crisis, it's been going up.

And Putin isn't like the POTUS, the government in Russia has significant impact on the economy.