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  1. #21
    If you are not in the beta then you really shouldn't be acting like you know how the game will be just by watching videos.. I personally think the game is really fun and I will def pay a sub to play it

  2. #22
    It will come down to 1 thing with ESO and thats GAMEPLAY, if it feels polished and smooth without any of those clunky things in character movement that other MMO's have than the game will same as WOW be very well and and it will grow and et its success.

    If you are having and want more without signs of boredom after 2-3 hours of playing than yes gameplay is good and the game is a success.

    And OT: it wont have too many effects on WOW in first 2 months maybe some will pause to try ESO same as every other MMO.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Absintheminded View Post
    It's really a simple and redundant question. Any new MMO that comes out is going to effect WoW's subscription total, because out of 8 million people there is going to be *at least* one person that will try it out. If you asking any more than that, then don't, because nobody wants another stinkin' WoW-killer thread.



    Pretty sure this is a meant to be some-kind of rhetorical question, but you'd be wrong. Yes, of course they affected WoW's subscription. I guarantee some people who left WoW to play those games never came back either. The question is pretty simple, cut and dry, black and white: Does Game X effect WoW's subscriptions? You can't honestly think that no game that has come out since WoW was released hasn't effect WoW's subs.
    I think you're being very literal here.

    Was just trying to spark some discussion. Thought the topic would be enough to get into the hows and whys, which is also implied in the original post.

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  4. #24
    Moderator MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    It makes perfect sense to go for a subscription fee when a game is first released as the most interest in a game is when it is first hits the market. A game going F2P after launching as sub based is not a sign of failure.
    It's bait-and-switch if they're planning to do it and talk about how great having a sub will be.

    Maximize revenue for the first few months when interest is high, allow players to believe that the game won't be F2P and then change it later. At this point, given how other titles have done with P2P, people are within their rights to think that might be what's going to happen. Ride the hype for a while, then change. I tend to believe that with a lot of relatively suspicious and reasonably smart gamers this will hurt them a bit.

    EDIT: To be clear, I'm 100% for subscription-based games because I think the overall experience is far superior. And I do hope they go this route and have conservative enough forecasts for how much it will need to retain to sustain the model. But practically, I don't believe this to really be true for either ESO or Wildstar.

    In the larger scheme of things I don't think it will affect WoW at all.
    Last edited by MoanaLisa; 2013-08-24 at 08:50 PM.
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  5. #25
    Every MMO that comes out has an impact on every other MMO that exists. The degree varies greatly. I don't think TESO or Wildstar or FXIV are going to matter a whole lot tbh. About the same as SWToR. They all have very mediocre cores to begin with so many people like myself will try them for awhile and come back to WoW simply because it's far smoother.

  6. #26
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    Highly doubt that. I remember when people said the same for swtor that it will hurt the game and look how it ended, it just went f2p which I'm afraid is what ESO will do later on. WoW will still remain the king of the hill for a very long time. Having 4m active subs in another MMO is a blessing since most cant reach 3m (besides wow ofc).

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by mmotroof View Post
    80% of ESO's income is gonna be on consoles. of skyrim's 12,000,000 copies sold, only 17% was on PC
    Can u ask where you got those stats? are you fully accounting for digital sales or only physical (vgchart only report physical disc sales, valve has never made public number of purchase made through steam for any game, it a confidentiality agreement with publisher). Maybe there was a bethesda press statement i missed.

    otherwise, consider that on PC digital sales around 75% and growing. so if you only have physical sales, you'll need to multiply that number by 4 at least.

  8. #28
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    I damn well hope so!
    I want to see some legitimate competition with WoW that isn't WoW itself. Competition breeds innovation.

  9. #29
    I think it will mostly affect ESO ... in a bad way

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  10. #30
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    Bottom line I think is that TESO (and WildStar) are taking a BIG gamble by choosing the (IMHO) outdated subscription-based model for their games. It smells very much like the arrogance of SWTOR, and look where they ended up - one of the biggest failures in MMO history. It's very dangerous to go sub-based in the age of f2p and "freemium" games, and while I can't speak to TESO I know from WildStar I've seen a lot of general arrogance and "We're the chosen ones who will restore the golden age of MMOs" in a lot of the posts, and I for one think that's very dangerous. If they wanted to chip at WoW (again, while I can't speak to TESO, Wildstar is pretty much positioning itself as a WoW clone and competitor) then the way to do it isn't to use the same model.

    As I said before both of these games lost a potential customer in myself, because I won't pay for multiple subscriptions right now and I currently subscribe to WoW. Had they been free to play in the manner of RIFT (IMO one of if not the best current f2p implementation in a game) I would play one or both in a heartbeat, but if I have to buy a game plus pay $15/month, I'm less likely to bother.

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  11. #31
    Considering ESO is the worst MMO (If not worst game ever) I've ever played, I doubt it'll affect anything but the developers careers.

  12. #32
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    Honestly, I think the subscription fees for ESO and WS are pretty bad ideas in the current MMO market. WoW can swing a subscription in part because of its monolithic status. It's been around, it's proven, and a great many people have been committed to it since a time when subscriptions were the norm.

    In this day and age, to expect players to pay a subscription for a new, unproven game, with which they have no attachment to, right out of the gate? I just don't know. Seems really, really risky. Sure, some early adopters will jump on board, but I think the conventional wisdom these days is that subscription games end up switching to the F2P model after a few months. A lot of people are probably just going to hold out for that.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Repefe View Post
    I think it will mostly affect ESO ... in a bad way
    I actually agree with this. Personally, I wouldn't try to directly compete with wow until it starts massively dying. And by that, I don't mean down below 7 million subs. I will say wow is dying when they release an expansion and the subs see a massive drop, (like 3-4 million) after the first couple weeks. When wow is below 2 million, then maybe it'd be safe to release a product that is direct competition.

    As it is now, I could see this allowing Blizz to make a huge power play. If the next expansion is incredible, and they time it to release around the same time as ESO, I could see ESO dying prematurely or at least being greatly hindered.
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  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by rumaya2000 View Post
    I suspect the WoW sub drops have them thinking, and the Wildstar and FF14 devs, that there are now millions of former wow players out there who have proven willing to shell out each month for an MMO so we could try and scoop up a piece of that action.
    Because, you know, "F2P" and "B2P" are much better with their cash shops where players can drop a TON of money vs a whole year of subbing (unless you splurge on WoW services- to which I hope not).

    I'm going to wait to hear more about ESO before I jump down that tunnel. I dislike factions, two are bad enough and THREE factions in ESO is going to be a bitch to me, especially when it comes to what races we all like to play.

    I'm banking on WildStar being a spacey version of WoW that I can enjoy. FF14RR didn't spark my interest too much, and neither has ESO.
    Last edited by Mighty Blue Bear; 2013-08-24 at 09:17 PM. Reason: added stuff

  15. #35
    The first few months of these games will probably be worth an additional 15 bucks while your still finding new things. After that, I doubt it. The whole 400$ expansion thing WoW has going on is madness enough, I don't think it'll spread.

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elapsed View Post
    Remember SWTOR tried it, a lot of us thought it was the second coming as well. It failed and went F2P and isn't doing great in that regard either. Sub based MMOs don't have a market it feels like anymore, people want micro transactions and a much more casual experience. Hope ESO is cool though
    yeah but aside from the leveling experience which you could do completely solo and it wouldnt change anything, swtor wasnt a very good game.
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  17. #37
    Have to admit, if WoW winds up going free to play, it would make my decision easier to go with ESO

  18. #38
    ESO will very likely be a lot more popular on consoles. And I don't know if I can see a sub based game succeeding on consoles where people are already going to be paying for PS+ or XBL.
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  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Vankrys View Post
    Can u ask where you got those stats? are you fully accounting for digital sales or only physical (vgchart only report physical disc sales, valve has never made public number of purchase made through steam for any game, it a confidentiality agreement with publisher). Maybe there was a bethesda press statement i missed.

    otherwise, consider that on PC digital sales around 75% and growing. so if you only have physical sales, you'll need to multiply that number by 4 at least.
    http://www.statisticbrain.com/skyrim...-v-statistics/

    this is from 13 months ago (date of verification) but i've read "sold 13 million copies" and i've read "shipped 10 million copies" and everything else
    digital vs physical, who knows, steam is used to activate both, they don't say how many they sold via steam, we know millions and millions of physical copies have been sold

    either way, the 86/14 split of console/pc games is all i've seen on the matter and the way bethesda sucked microsoft's dick with all the early releases says the console market was more important

  20. #40
    Herald of the Titans Poppincaps's Avatar
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    Honestly, I don't think it will affect WoW not because WoW is some untouchable titan, but more than ESO seems kinda... bad from what I've seen so far. Now, of course I'm a fan of the Elder Scrolls, so I'll be watching it, but I wouldn't be surprised if it tanks.

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