Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst
1
2
  1. #21
    well since apparently every spec has to be equally good in pvp against any comp (in blizzard's mind at least) that's what you get. every spec feels the same and class differences turn out to be just differently colored spells.

  2. #22
    The problem being that some people value homogenisation over balance, and some people the other way round. For instance,

    Quote Originally Posted by saltyharbls View Post
    The only way to make pvp 100% balanced is if every spec got a dedicated pvp-spec with the same abilities to every class.
    Different names and graphic bla bla bla. If everything is the same then everyone would be at the same level and only skill would matter.

    But... that would be fucking boring, right?
    This is an extremely valid point. Having only 1 comp to balance would be extremely easy for Blizzard... but extremely boring for players. There would likely be a best way to kill someone, and a best way to play defensive, and once you had mastered those two playstyles the skillcap would be reached. There would be almost no strategy left in the game. You would only ever fight one comp and though different players might have different playstyles, nearly all matches would be indistinguishable from each other after a night of playing.


    The other side of the coin is this:

    Quote Originally Posted by wow View Post
    One of the big things that messed up mop pvp was the fact that they tried to give everyone everything. Classes need to have strengths and weakness, mop gave a lot of classes a lot of new things without taking anything away.
    Again, a good point. But once you've given each spec its own 'tool', you're talking about 34 individual and spec-unique spells that will have an impact on the outcome of an arena game. Arena teams are made out of 3 players, which means there is nearly 40,000 different combinations of unique spells that all need to be balanced just incase a certain combination of 3 of them is more overpowered than others, and that's with only 1 unique spell per spec. There is already 10+, which is a lot of work.

    Every time you give a class a strength and weakness, you push people into certain comps. This means that they might not be able to play with their friends or guildies anymore, and might deter them from playing Arena. With more strengths and weaknesses, FOTM comps are even stronger and the ladder is comprised of only a handful of comps - whichever comps have strengths that cover each others weaknesses.


    Honestly, it's a hard call to make, and I feel like Blizzard is just about right with how much homogenisation there is currently. I have the ability to play with nearly any class and be somewhat competitive, but every spec still has a vastly different playstyle. Even if some specs have the same style of CC, mobility or defensives (feral and rogue, warrior and monk, mage and lock) they still play hugely different when it comes to Arena.
    Last edited by Snuggli; 2013-08-26 at 03:05 PM.

  3. #23
    Field Marshal Abda's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Poland
    Posts
    75
    You have two models in pvp: everyone is equal or rock, paper, scizors. In first there gonna be homogenization in second 1 class gonna without trying kill some classes. Which one do you prefer? Because you cant have both.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Henkdejager View Post
    So hunters only should get a root wich is disspelable? Seems fair man
    Don't know exactly what you mean with only here, but either:

    1. Hunter only gets a root as CC.
    - I don't know about you but to my knowledge scatter shot, freezing trap, Concussive shot and pet stun counts as CC's.

    2. Hunter only gets a root thats dispellable(not enough)
    - Well you could say the same for Mage and Druid roots, and all the others are irrelevant because i requested them gone in the process.

  5. #25
    Not having interupt / cc is bad. If you take abilities away they can't fight mobs that have mechanics like "if you dont interrupt that heal you wont win", you basically narrow down players interaction just for balance. You want class diversity? Give them different kinds of abilities that can do the same job slightly different.


    Its however important to understand that instant cc = having a interrupt.
    I dont need kick /skullbash to interrupt when i can just as well stun.

    Same with warlock/priest instant fear.

  6. #26
    Stood in the Fire Wootylicious's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Middle Of Nowhere, Finland
    Posts
    469
    Homogenization is starting to ruin this game..

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Wootylicious View Post
    Homogenization is starting to ruin this game..
    Starting? I think it already has...
    Quote Originally Posted by Validity View Post
    If rogues become shit, all they can become is a different type of shit.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by bt4 View Post
    Not having interupt / cc is bad. If you take abilities away they can't fight mobs that have mechanics like "if you dont interrupt that heal you wont win", you basically narrow down players interaction just for balance. You want class diversity? Give them different kinds of abilities that can do the same job slightly different.


    Its however important to understand that instant cc = having a interrupt.
    I dont need kick /skullbash to interrupt when i can just as well stun.

    Same with warlock/priest instant fear.
    I agree with this, mostly the last statement. Maining a priest at the moment those rares that heal for almost Lay on Hands like amounts is indeed very bothersome. There are some encounters in brawlers guild where I have to dispersion to be able to survive for not being able to interrupt twice. I can live with this, but i just simply want these mechanics gone for everything outside of group/raid environments. At least lower it's impact. Thats what i ment with game adjustments for the implementatios I wrote.

    And yes, I believe you should use your stuns/instant CCs to interrupt, alternatively run behind the casters back in PvP, to answer the person speaking about taking a fear to the face. Paladins had to do this all the time with the stun back in the day.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Eliot123 View Post
    Was just about to write something like this. PvP was never the main thing in WoW, and unless they totally screw up just about everything about PvE and class differences, it will never be fully balanced. Honestly, it started going downhills when they first began to hand out CCs and interrupts and such to everyone.
    IF arena wasn't ever implemented this would be a valid argument, however seeing they made "end game" for pvp'rs this argument hasn't been valid since s1
    Stormspellz -mugthol
    Battletag - Stormz#1438

  10. #30
    Brewmaster Naztrak's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Nagrand Arena
    Posts
    1,464
    Quote Originally Posted by Stormspellz View Post
    IF arena wasn't ever implemented this would be a valid argument, however seeing they made "end game" for pvp'rs this argument hasn't been valid since s1
    Not just that, they even implemented RBGs later as a 2nd form of end game pvp.
    PvE is a minigame // Rerolled from affly to spriest after 8 years, thx pandaland changes

  11. #31
    Bloodsail Admiral Well's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    1,237
    I remember how bad it was when paladins got an interrupt. A holy pala coming on you and interrupting you in arena? How dump is that?

    The worst part is not homogeinity, but the excess amount of cc. Interrupt into stun into interrupt into blind and again interrupt from just ONE person is just silly. If a healer can pull this, what should the mage be able to do? Double the amount and variety?

    Thing is, there are now to many buttons to smash, with too many cds, with too many gimmicks and little secrets. It's just too much and the WORST part is that it feels that you do not have control of your character. You are constantly being afflicted by some cc.

  12. #32
    Brewmaster Naztrak's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Nagrand Arena
    Posts
    1,464
    Quote Originally Posted by Well View Post
    I remember how bad it was when paladins got an interrupt. A holy pala coming on you and interrupting you in arena? How dump is that?

    The worst part is not homogeinity, but the excess amount of cc. Interrupt into stun into interrupt into blind and again interrupt from just ONE person is just silly. If a healer can pull this, what should the mage be able to do? Double the amount and variety?

    Thing is, there are now to many buttons to smash, with too many cds, with too many gimmicks and little secrets. It's just too much and the WORST part is that it feels that you do not have control of your character. You are constantly being afflicted by some cc.
    Too much cc IMO really overshadows the homogenization things around interrupts. I think it is fine for everyone to have interrupts at this point (really burst and stuff) but I also feel juking should be reward. Each time I juke fear > lol X instant cc.
    PvE is a minigame // Rerolled from affly to spriest after 8 years, thx pandaland changes

  13. #33
    The Patient UnderworldSoup's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Newfoundland, Canada
    Posts
    277
    Quote Originally Posted by Well View Post
    A holy pala coming on you and interrupting you in arena? How dump is that?
    About the same as a 6 second CD Wind Shear from a Restoration Shaman. Oh, that's a ranged interrupt.

    Melee have always had some sort of interrupt niche after WotLK. Reverting any post-WotLK changes to interrupts (for melee) would not be constructive to the game at this point, however modifying the lockout periods or immune abilities for interrupts might be.

  14. #34
    The Lightbringer Danishpsycho's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Denmark
    Posts
    3,059
    Quote Originally Posted by wiep View Post
    Hunters, pallies, priests, warlocks and druids(?) shouldn't have interrupts. The blanket parts for priest, locks and moonkin can stay for pvp mayhaps. Game needs to be adjusted to not be a necessity to have one for solo content.

    Mortal Strike effect should ONLY be warriors having, and that a 50% effect. Damage and burst adjusted accordingly after that.

    Only shamans and POSSIBLY moonkin druids should have the knockback, hunters with traps should not.

    Weapon chains should be removed, and disarms should only come from warriors and rogues, possibly monks too.

    Fears should only come from warlocks and priests.

    Bigger stuns should only come from Rogues and pallies (not some DK bullshit).

    Heroism should only come from shamans.

    Only mages, druids and hunters(with spider pet webshot, not the talent together with disengage) should have roots.

    Consistent heals/selfheals should only come from hybrid classes. I can live with stuff like Enraged regen, healthstone and glyphed Evocation.

    Extra trinkets removed! Can't stress that enough. Exceptions could be blink, IBF, zerkerrage and freedom. I'm more in favour of abilities that can make you CC immune for a while without breaking it, such as fear ward or old tremor totem. They allow for higher skillcap. Bestial wrath making you stun immune for 10 seconds, but doesnt break a stun once you're already afflicted with it for example.

    Game should be adjusted and fixed accordingly after that.

    There's some examples of mine....
    There's a few of your suggestions that would have such a major impact on PvE that it would never work. Like removing interrupts from several classes or only having Shamans providing BL/Hero, that would require that a) Spells works differently from PvE to PvP or b) That we get a dedicated PvP spec. But how would a dedicated PvP spec look for hybrids? Take Druids who can master every single role in the game. Would we see a 5th spec for PvP only and what would that spec be like? Healer, Ranged, Melee or Tank? If you pick on of them, you force every Druid to play that same spec. If you make a 5th spec, how would that work out?

    It's not that I disagree with you overall, I'm just saying that as long as PvE is the dominant play style, PvP won't ever be truly balanced. Already several PvE specs are either changing non stop, being non viable or just a pain in the ass to play in PvE, cause they try to balance said specs in PvP and vice versa. And the end result is, that nobody is happy.
    Last edited by Danishpsycho; 2013-08-27 at 10:50 AM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •