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  1. #1

    5.4 Resto Gearing

    Here are my current thoughts around where to go with Resto gearing priority in 5.4 - from a 25 man perspective.

    1. Haste to ~9100.

    Even though the totem haste breakpoints are unreliable, I think we are going to want to get to the 8916 HST breakpoint, especially as a Troll Shaman. Rushing Streams is going to be a mandatory talent unless AG gets buffed to compensate for the Healing Rain mechanics changes. HST is 20-35% of our output on the PTR with that talent specced, making an extra HST tick work 2-3.5% extra throughput. On top of that, 8916 is also a breakpoint that gives you an extra tick of HTT when used with Berserking. With HTT likely being 15% of our output with the 25 man target cap increase, an extra HTT tick is worth about 2% extra healing.

    You probably need to gear to about 9100 haste and not right on 8916 because of the latency factor, but a Troll Resto Shaman in 5.4 gains about 5% extra output going with that haste point instead of stopping at the 7613 Healing Rain breakpoint, which is a very significant output increase for 1500 extra itemization points. A non-troll would probably gain about 3% extra healing. At a higher gear level, we will want to get to the 15,316 HR breakpoint, but we can't get there at a 550 ilvl without losing too much INT and Spirit.

    2. Spirit to Comfort.

    For me, the current Spirit comfort level is around 16,000, but even that is only needed for Ra-Den. While we gain about 2500 effective Spirit from the Riptide mana cost reduction, I think the Spirit requirement will stay the same. For one thing, we would be running at a slightly higher haste level. For another, the Chain Heal buff will make us want to cast that more than we currently do, which burns through more mana. With our throughput being much more competitive than last tier, and everyone starting the tier with legendary metas, I can't see pure mana bot builds being worth it like they were when we were the weakest throughput healers by a large margin.

    3. INT

    INT is by far our highest throughput stat outside of haste to certain breakpoints. We will probably be gemming more and more pure INT the higher ilevel rises.

    4. Crit

    It goes up slightly in value once we drop T15 4pc. It's still a strong stat and the best place to dump stat points once you are at the desired/reachable haste and spirit levels

    5. Additional Spirit

    More regen isn't the worst thing in the world.

    6. Haste outside breakpoints

    I would take additional non breakpoint affecting haste over mastery

    7. Mastery

    It still as weak of an itemization point sink as ever. Healing Rain being a smart heal might slightly increase the value of Mastery, but I really can't see it ever surpassing Crit (let alone INT and Spirit) unless our overheal drops to the ~40% range.

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Tiberria View Post
    1. Haste to ~9100.

    Even though the totem haste breakpoints are unreliable, I think we are going to want to get to the 8916 HST breakpoint, especially as a Troll Shaman. Rushing Streams is going to be a mandatory talent unless AG gets buffed to compensate for the Healing Rain mechanics changes. HST is 20-35% of our output on the PTR with that talent specced, making an extra HST tick work 2-3.5% extra throughput. On top of that, 8916 is also a breakpoint that gives you an extra tick of HTT when used with Berserking. With HTT likely being 15% of our output with the 25 man target cap increase, an extra HTT tick is worth about 2% extra healing.

    You probably need to gear to about 9100 haste and not right on 8916 because of the latency factor, but a Troll Resto Shaman in 5.4 gains about 5% extra output going with that haste point instead of stopping at the 7613 Healing Rain breakpoint, which is a very significant output increase for 1500 extra itemization points. A non-troll would probably gain about 3% extra healing. At a higher gear level, we will want to get to the 15,316 HR breakpoint, but we can't get there at a 550 ilvl without losing too much INT and Spirit.
    if you're going that high already, why not just pick up the next ELW breakpoint? it's less than 1500 additional rating.

  3. #3
    I feel that Mastery > excess haste for progression but other than that I agree with your post.

    Quote Originally Posted by marklar View Post
    if you're going that high already, why not just pick up the next ELW breakpoint? it's less than 1500 additional rating.
    I am curious if getting the haste for that extra EL tick is better than the other stats you could be gaining considering the HR change.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by marklar View Post
    if you're going that high already, why not just pick up the next ELW breakpoint? it's less than 1500 additional rating.
    I can't see ELW breakpoints being worth going out of your way to reach at all, because they are not significant enough. It averages about 7% of my output on live, so one extra tick is a 1.1% output increase. However, 1400 Crit (which is realistically what you would be giving up to reach it) is a 2.3% crit increase, which is a flat 2.3% raw output increase, plus the increase in Resurgence gains. The Crit is more than twice as strong as using that extra 1400 itemization points to get the ELW breakpoint.

    Also, unless they change the mechanics on the PTR to compensate for the Healing Rain changes, ELW is going to be down to 1.5-3% of our output, making the 1400 Crit more than 4 times as strong.

  5. #5
    Food for thought: amp trinkets will allow to get higher haste levels both by boosting your haste, but also by increasing your spirit (so you can drop some of spirit you had). Then we take into account no need for 4p, since it's garbage, so more freedom in choosing pieces with desired stats (read: less mastery).

    With all that in mind, i'm fairly sure the 11471 for Healing Tide might be a good idea (especially for 25m raiding with the buff to it), but ultimate goal will be 15316, attainable as soon as early hc progression, provided we do get our hands on them amp trinket.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Ranjit View Post
    Food for thought: amp trinkets will allow to get higher haste levels both by boosting your haste, but also by increasing your spirit (so you can drop some of spirit you had). Then we take into account no need for 4p, since it's garbage, so more freedom in choosing pieces with desired stats (read: less mastery).

    With all that in mind, i'm fairly sure the 11471 for Healing Tide might be a good idea (especially for 25m raiding with the buff to it), but ultimate goal will be 15316, attainable as soon as early hc progression, provided we do get our hands on them amp trinket.
    If you're troll, you actually only need to gear to 8916 (or however far above that you want to go to make sure the latency/server drop off issues don't affect it), because you should always be using HTT with Berserking anyway. It makes Troll by far and away the best Resto Shaman race for next tier.

    I suspect they will probably do something to fix the 4 piece bonus. It can't possibly be left this awful.

  7. #7
    I'm a goblin, it has its perks. Good point about the berserking tho. Either way, mark my words, we are going to get to next tick of HR with no problem and then have tons of leftover crit to boot.

    About the 4p: wouldn't be the first time this happens. It being so bad has good sides. If it was really powerful, we'd have t13 all over again ( i hated not having SWG for moving because i just used it for throughput).

  8. #8
    The Patient pouca's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiberria View Post
    I can't see ELW breakpoints being worth going out of your way to reach at all, because they are not significant enough. It averages about 7% of my output on live, so one extra tick is a 1.1% output increase. However, 1400 Crit (which is realistically what you would be giving up to reach it) is a 2.3% crit increase, which is a flat 2.3% raw output increase, plus the increase in Resurgence gains. The Crit is more than twice as strong as using that extra 1400 itemization points to get the ELW breakpoint.

    Also, unless they change the mechanics on the PTR to compensate for the Healing Rain changes, ELW is going to be down to 1.5-3% of our output, making the 1400 Crit more than 4 times as strong.
    1500 additional haste is not only one more tick of EL it's also more GCDs per minute, less casting time, etc.... Don't forget !

  9. #9
    I think 10m will be going t15 2set + t16 2set. From the looks of it, Head and Gloves for t16 with pants and chest for t15. Crown of Tragic Truth would be BiS for headpiece. And the rest offpieces with Crit/spirit gear.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by fenrez View Post
    I feel that Mastery > excess haste for progression but other than that I agree with your post.
    Agree 100%. Might not show up the strongest on meters but for heroic progression it's a nice buffer for the "oh shit" moments.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ranjit View Post
    With all that in mind, i'm fairly sure the 11471 for Healing Tide might be a good idea (especially for 25m raiding with the buff to it), but ultimate goal will be 15316, attainable as soon as early hc progression, provided we do get our hands on them amp trinket.
    I agree the 40% HTT breakpoint will probably be the most ideal / popular until (if?) people are able to comfortably reach the 49.98% Healing Rain breakpoint. Although with the latency issues, it might be a better idea to just go to 41.68% for riptide; riptide breakpoint isn't a HUGE deal, especially for 25's, but it's less than 650 rating higher, and with latency most people will be a few hundred above 40% anyway.

    I sit at about 85 ping for home&world, and went about 250 rating higher than a HST breakpoint. Did a good amount of testing and needed all those 250 points to get the extra ticks 100% of the time. If I do that again for HTT, going up 400 rating for the riptide breakpoint might not be a bad idea.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Aviators View Post
    I think 10m will be going t15 2set + t16 2set. From the looks of it, Head and Gloves for t16 with pants and chest for t15. Crown of Tragic Truth would be BiS for headpiece. And the rest offpieces with Crit/spirit gear.
    It might be the choice of tier pieces throughout the tier, for fights where you pick RST. Or did they nerf those 2 augmenting eachother?

    RestoMurilo: i don't share the love for mastery, never did. Was baffled for a while in t14 when everyone argued for "magical" 50% mastery, where all auxiliary addons proved mastery is way below crit in pure throughput, even on fights that supposedly value it more (Garalon?)

    Great point about the Riptide breakpoint, it's truly not that far away. I guess it will all boil down to having/not having amp trinkets and what 2ndary stats you have on your gear.

  12. #12
    Haha yeah the "go to 50% mastery then no more" thing is a pet peeve of mine too. Seems like 50% got mentioned once in a guide or somewhere, and just picked up and repeated by tons of people to try to sound knowledgeable. Very strange how it got referenced as some kind of breakpoint / soft cap.

    My pro-mastery statement was only against extra, non-breakpoint haste. Mastery is definitely our weakest stat, everyone should be avoiding it. But I do think it's better than extra haste that's above a breakpoint honestly.

  13. #13
    Mechagnome
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    Resto Shaman gearing:

    Download http://wow.curseforge.com/addons/restoshamanstats/

    Reforge/Glyph after the values it gives you

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by pouca View Post
    1500 additional haste is not only one more tick of EL it's also more GCDs per minute, less casting time, etc.... Don't forget !
    But, haste for the extra cast time is almost certainly weaker than either Crit or Spirit. About 90% of our output is tied into HR, HST, RT (including the things that we proc) that we don't really gain that much from being able to cast more fillers, and it requires more Spirit to sustain fully using that faster cast time. 1500 Crit is going to be upwards of 4 times the healing of an extra ELW tick with the HR changes in 5.4, so I don't think it's really that close - that extra ELW tick is not worth going for.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Ranjit View Post
    It might be the choice of tier pieces throughout the tier, for fights where you pick RST. Or did they nerf those 2 augmenting eachother?

    RestoMurilo: i don't share the love for mastery, never did. Was baffled for a while in t14 when everyone argued for "magical" 50% mastery, where all auxiliary addons proved mastery is way below crit in pure throughput, even on fights that supposedly value it more (Garalon?)

    Great point about the Riptide breakpoint, it's truly not that far away. I guess it will all boil down to having/not having amp trinkets and what 2ndary stats you have on your gear.
    Yes, Rushing Steams still buffs the T15 2pc. However, the interaction really isn't anything to get excited about. The T15 2pc is generally about 2% extra healing, and RS buffs that by just 15%. It's a 0.3% output increase from that interaction, which is extremely marginal. The far bigger deal is that glyphed HST with RS and T15 2pc puts the damage reduction on 3 targets per tick.

  15. #15
    That is exactly what i had in mind - 3x10 ticks, that will average to at least half the raid, worth of 10% reduction, it's nothing to sneeze at.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Ranjit View Post
    It might be the choice of tier pieces throughout the tier, for fights where you pick RST. Or did they nerf those 2 augmenting eachother?
    I don't think so, HST is a significant amount of healing (1 of my top 3) in 10m. I would imagine the 25% healing would be too good to give up coupled with Rushing streams/Glyph of HST.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Aviators View Post
    I don't think so, HST is a significant amount of healing (1 of my top 3) in 10m. I would imagine the 25% healing would be too good to give up coupled with Rushing streams/Glyph of HST.
    With RS and T15 2pc, it hits 2 targets at full strength and then a 3rd one at 25% strength. The extra 25% target is only about 2% extra healing, and RS only buffs it by 15%, so it's only 0.3% stronger. The set bonus is only marginally better than it is on live. Unless the HST glyph is extremely significant on a certain fight - and the majority of SoO raid damage mechanics appear to be shadow and/or physical - which it is useless for, the extra 0.3% healing you get from the RS-set bonus interaction is not worth keeping it for. In particular, there is almost no way it will be worth keep T15 2pc when you have the option of replacing it with ilvl 566 heroic items (574 upgraded). If they don't fix our 4 piece, we would just take offset pieces, but I can't see keeping the current 2 piece forever.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Tiberria View Post
    With RS and T15 2pc, it hits 2 targets at full strength and then a 3rd one at 25% strength. The extra 25% target is only about 2% extra healing, and RS only buffs it by 15%, so it's only 0.3% stronger. The set bonus is only marginally better than it is on live. Unless the HST glyph is extremely significant on a certain fight - and the majority of SoO raid damage mechanics appear to be shadow and/or physical - which it is useless for, the extra 0.3% healing you get from the RS-set bonus interaction is not worth keeping it for. In particular, there is almost no way it will be worth keep T15 2pc when you have the option of replacing it with ilvl 566 heroic items (574 upgraded). If they don't fix our 4 piece, we would just take offset pieces, but I can't see keeping the current 2 piece forever.
    Aw, thats lame. I thought it would be HST heal 1 + 2pc heal and then HST heal 2 + 2pc heal. So 4 total targets healed. From the looks of it, there is some really good Off pieces with Crit/Spirit. Feel bad for ele since they get stuck with same gear.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Tiberria View Post
    the extra 0.3% healing you get from the RS-set bonus interaction is not worth keeping it for.
    Just to clarify, the numbers you're using 2% output for the T15 2-pc, which bumps up to 2.3% if we take RS? Just wanna make sure, I'll be keeping T15 2-pc for a couple weeks atleast I'm guessing. Obviously like you said with heroic items available it's not a contest, but if someone gets unlucky & only has normal tier, I can see keeping 2-pc being viable, especially if it's the i543 gloves & shoulders (least amount of stats to lose).

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Tiberria View Post
    I can't see ELW breakpoints being worth going out of your way to reach at all, because they are not significant enough. It averages about 7% of my output on live, so one extra tick is a 1.1% output increase. However, 1400 Crit (which is realistically what you would be giving up to reach it) is a 2.3% crit increase, which is a flat 2.3% raw output increase, plus the increase in Resurgence gains. The Crit is more than twice as strong as using that extra 1400 itemization points to get the ELW breakpoint.

    Also, unless they change the mechanics on the PTR to compensate for the Healing Rain changes, ELW is going to be down to 1.5-3% of our output, making the 1400 Crit more than 4 times as strong.
    agree that it's not going to be worth it unless ELW procs go up before the patch hits.

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