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  1. #141
    I don't understand the notion of "It must be an orc!"

    Call me crazy but if I was a troll or goblin or pretty much any non-orc in the Horde I wouldn't want to immediately put another orc in charge immediately following Garrosh.

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  2. #142
    Quote Originally Posted by Schaden View Post
    Sunwalker Dezco.

    He has: a well-documented history of service through the expac, has formed the best relations between the Horde and the native Pandaren of all the Horde characters, he's seen Garrosh's madness and tyranny first-hand, the player base has an emotional connection to him after his wife's death, AND he has a really good rapport with Anduin Wyrnn, the prophesied leader of The Army of the Light and Prince of Stormwind. If anyone is able to bridge the gap between Horde and Alliance to defeat the Legion, it'd be these two. Plus, we know that some sort of great vision lead his wife and their party to Pandaria in the first place.

    (Oooph, upon thinking about it, how much of a kick in the guts is it for Dezco to walk into the Vale, see that place and KNOW it was the subject of his wife's vision and KNOWING that those waters could've saved her life? Then spend the rest of the expac watching it be torn apart under Garrosh's idiocy. Ouch.)
    That guy got his own kid killed.
    The common man is like a worm in the gut of a corpse, trapped inside a prison of cold flesh, helpless and uncaring, unaware even of the inevitability of its own doom.

  3. #143
    Quote Originally Posted by Gravemind View Post
    Dated, sure, flawed? No. Warchief was a title created by orcs. Its name, and even the word Horde, implies savagery. It's not logical for a blood elf to have a horde because blood elves are not savage. To be part of a horde, sure, but to be the leading faction of one? I don't think so. And Varian doesn't get to choose who is Warchief. He walks away and lets the Horde decide. It'll be an orc.
    http://www.thefreedictionary.com/horde

    Maybe, just maybe you don't know the definition of the word 'horde'.

    nomadic tribe or group, a large group. Hmm, that would fit just about everyone in the horde. It would also be more descriptive of the orcs in Nagrand who aren't all 'roid-ragey, the tauren, the darkspear, the blood elves, and the forsaken; than Garrosh's idea of 'true horde'.

    Horde =/= savagery.

    Warchief is a title that implies something ... but it is a political title; just like 'commander in chief', who is also in charge of the military, but in charge of a combination of states in a union in the territory of North America. Just like the horde's 'warchief' is a figurehead in charge of their military, but also in charge of a group of 'tribes' (aka nation states, with independent capital cities and various settlements across the world and beyond), in a union across the lands of Azeroth.



    Also, if he does end up being warchief, the throne wouldn't be in Org, it'd be in SMC. Saurfang or whatever orc racial leader we get, will rule from Org.


    There is no proof it will be an orc, or anyone in particular. In fact, after what Garrosh has done, I don't see any of the other races being 'ok' with an orc as warchief again for some time. It almost certainly would have to be an alternative racial leader, since it won't be a council;

    unless ... warchief is relegated to being the same as 'commander of the orcs', just as Theron is 'regent lord of the blood elves'; and they also instate some sort of council to prevent something such as this from ever happening again. A single leader in charge of everything with no checks or balances has proven to them to not work out very well if you have someone with sociopathic tendencies.

    I don't see Vol'jin being worthy, after having his throat slit and nearly died by someone whom we easily taken down. That is an extreme physical weakness, considering he is a boss level toon. I think Baine needs more time/tenure. Sylvannas needs to calm down, the Koltira incident is proof enough she is not worthy of more power at the moment. Gallywix is only leader because of necessity, and has been hiding for years, not even at his special resort he had built, perhaps at Undermine. Pandaren are new to the group, and I highly doubt they'd put one in charge; barring that being the most unexpected choice, which they said it would be someone we wouldn't expect ... but I hope they have the sense that it would not go well with what I'd assume to be most players.

    It really comes down to Lor'themar Theron being the only valid choice. He is a veteran of the 2nd and 3rd wars. He has held together his people despite the odds. He fought alongside Sylvannas when she was alive, and had to deal with her politics when she was forsaken. He has further proven himself, finally getting real in game attention this xpac. He has been built up, while most people still expect an orc or Vol'jin. People expect Org to remain the seat of the 'empire', when it doesn't have to be.


    Here is another idea ... They worked on flight in SMC/Ghostlands for the cata zandalari patch, but they realized people were glitching their way to outlands. I think if they move them to their appropriate land's servers; we will see them properly integrated and updated. If xpac after next is legion, it would be proper to have exo and smc updated. A poster on a similar thread put forth the idea that exo is fixed and can be hovering over the land, instead of buried in it. SMC gets updated and the scar fixed, allowing them space to set up an area for gathering forces and setting up for our defense, or possible aggression against the legion.

    Theron works better for the longer term lore, with Anduin being the leader of the forces of Light.

    There has to be a reason Wyrnn walks away with agreement with the warchief after invading the capital and dispatching the warmonger. There has to be some reason he finds peace with the situation. The only orcs I see this possible with is Varok Saurfang and Go'el. I could see him accepting Baine, but not Gallywix nor Sylvannas.

    So we have Varok, Go'el, Baine, Vol'Jin, or Lor'themar; or others who haven't really been around for a long time, making a surprise move to warchief after years of absence is a stretch.

    Varok is my choice, Lor'themar second. Varok is not 'too old, too lethargic' as another poster put it. He served in all the wars. He fought off the bugs in Silithus. He fought the scourge in northrend and until recently was still in command of the troops in northrend cleaning up, when he realized he was needed back in Kalimdor. He has experience and wisdom. He isn't old, he is mature. It is the only reasonable solution for an orc leader after a young, irresponsible, impulsive, maniacal, moron orc was put in charge by a peaceful leader who allowed his guy love for an old, deceased friend to cloud his judgement while he had saving the world on his shoulders.

  4. #144
    Quote Originally Posted by Pengalor View Post
    Some people actually care about the lore. I know, crazy.
    Some people care about making sure Blizzard recapitulates their interpretation of what the lore should be. They should probably go back to DMing their D&D game.

  5. #145
    Scarab Lord Grubjuice's Avatar
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    instead of a Shogun, maybe we should have Triumvirate

  6. #146
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhlor View Post
    Lor'themar does not even like being the regent lord least pretend to be warchief. I think his greatest wish is to be a ranger in the blood of the Highborne novella does not like having a high political office
    This is mostly what suggests to me that it won't happen. Lorthemar even says it himself on the Isle of Thunder, he wants to be on the front lines not behind a desk handling politics. He does it because his people need him to. He'd be the largest political standing in all of the Horde if he were to become Warchief, which just isn't something he'd want.

    Vol'jin would be a closer fit for it, but even he isn't the best with politics. And it does still leave the Orcs without a racial leader.

  7. #147
    I have an idea.....Chen Stormstout...*walks away*

  8. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by Venziir View Post
    The thing is though, that neither Vol'jin or Lor'themar have ever expressed wanting to replace Garrosh as Warchief. Wanting to dethrone/remove/kill him, yes. Replace him, no.

    There's also the fact that with the death of Garrosh, not only will the Horde be without a Warchief, the orcs will also be without a leader.
    Lor'themar has. Just after the purge on dalaran. Some said he would make a fine Warchief. Lor'themar said "It just might come to that".

    For me I would much prefer a blood elf to be Warchief over some dirty troll. Vol'jin gets Warchief I am done playing horde.
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  9. #149
    I'm all for Lorthemar as the next warchief. He seems like a more logical person than the rest.

  10. #150
    Quote Originally Posted by Fleugen View Post
    This is mostly what suggests to me that it won't happen. Lorthemar even says it himself on the Isle of Thunder, he wants to be on the front lines not behind a desk handling politics. He does it because his people need him to. He'd be the largest political standing in all of the Horde if he were to become Warchief, which just isn't something he'd want.

    Vol'jin would be a closer fit for it, but even he isn't the best with politics. And it does still leave the Orcs without a racial leader.
    Those who do not want to lead, actually turn out to be the best leaders in the end. They don't care for the power or prestige, it's their duty. They won't make rash decisions, they can't be bought. They only care for their people and as a leader of the Horde, every member of the Horde would be Lor'Themars people.

    There's a nice little detail from the Novel Tides of War, which shows how Lor'Themar thinks and acts. This happened, after Garrosh explains his plans to attack Theramore to the other Horde Faction Leaders :

    Lor'themar is impassive regarding Sylvanas's worries pertaining to the fall of Theramore, despite Sylvanas believing the Forsaken and the sin'dorei would be most at risk of retaliation. Lor'themar ignores her repeatedly during the meeting, despite Sylvanas's attempts to play upon the regent lord's sympathy.

    Garrosh later summons Lor'themar for a private audience, thanking him for his loyalty. When prompted to discuss the nature of said loyalty, Lor'themar makes it clear that he is loyal to the Horde, though Garrosh reminds him that he is the Horde. Lor'themar corrects him, stating that he is merely its leader. As Garrosh observes the sin'dorei retinue leave Orgrimmar, he uneasily concludes that Theron in particular is worth watching.
    This, right here, is why Lor'Themar is probably the most diplomatic and calm Leader within the Warcraft Universe right now. He refuses to be drawn to any side during the meeting, but at the same time, makes it very clear to Garrosh, how he perceives the Horde. He may not call it Family, like Thrall or Vol'jin would, but it's the same idea.

    I like Vol'Jin and I would accept him as the Warchief aswell, but he is way too emotional for this position. In the end, he was right with Garrosh and his Rebellion will succeed, but what will happen, when he has similiar quarrels with one of the Alliance leaders? I guess, that he would jump right into a conflict, without considering what would be best for the Horde.

  11. #151
    Quote Originally Posted by Gerodi View Post
    I like Vol'Jin and I would accept him as the Warchief aswell, but he is way too emotional for this position. In the end, he was right with Garrosh and his Rebellion will succeed, but what will happen, when he has similiar quarrels with one of the Alliance leaders? I guess, that he would jump right into a conflict, without considering what would be best for the Horde.
    Well that is if Blizzard decides for some reason to make him into a similar hothead like Garrosh, which I'd find unlikely.

  12. #152
    If a BELF is made warchief I'm going to delete wow, account, burn pc, throw remains out of the window, then proceed to carve my eyes out as after being insulted in such a way I wouldn't need them anymore.
    Last edited by Djalil; 2013-08-27 at 10:01 AM.

  13. #153
    Quote Originally Posted by Mokaproductionist View Post
    Well that is if Blizzard decides for some reason to make him into a similar hothead like Garrosh, which I'd find unlikely.
    You're probably right. I read up on Vol'jin again, he is also a very calm mind and was pushed by Garrosh from the begining and kept his calm for long. Either way, Vol'Jin or Lor'Themar is fine by me.

  14. #154
    Scarab Lord Descense's Avatar
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    My vote goes for Trade Prince Gallywix.

    Nobody expects the goblin inquisition.

  15. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fleugen View Post
    This is mostly what suggests to me that it won't happen. Lorthemar even says it himself on the Isle of Thunder, he wants to be on the front lines not behind a desk handling politics. He does it because his people need him to. He'd be the largest political standing in all of the Horde if he were to become Warchief, which just isn't something he'd want.

    Vol'jin would be a closer fit for it, but even he isn't the best with politics. And it does still leave the Orcs without a racial leader.
    He doesn't want that power and responsibility.
    That's a good thing, we don't want another power-hungry warmongering Warchief like Garrosh.
    Doesn't that make Lor'Themar the best choice?

    He doesn't want to be Warchief, but he would accept it if the rest wanted it.

  16. #156
    I don't see Vol'jin being worthy, after having his throat slit and nearly died by someone whom we easily taken down. That is an extreme physical weakness, considering he is a boss level toon.
    I'm a supporter of Lor'thremar for warchief and most of your post is great, except for this part.

    First of all, Vol'jin had his neck slit by a Kor'kron assassin, not Garrosh.

    Second, "boss level" has.... nothing to do with the characters themselves. Lore-wise, they're just normal people, there's no such thing as 'levels' or 'stats'.

    Third, Vol'jin survived with his neck slit, escaped, recuperated and launched a massive all-out assault on Ogrimmar, after taking Razor Hill.

    If you think surviving an assassination attempt that left you with a cut-open throat is "a sign of weakness", I'd like to know what reality you live in.

    Oh, and, Fourth, even if a raid group takes Garrosh down with ease, lorically, he will not have been easy to beat.

  17. #157
    Quote Originally Posted by Verdugo View Post
    That guy got his own kid killed.
    Yes he did, by being a father who didn't want to let his children go after losing his wife and being told he'd have to surrender one of his children to strangers. Foolish, short-sighted, and ultimately disastrous. But accidental and not the result of malice. A bad choice, a foolish choice, but what character in this game hasn't made choices they felt were right but ended up being wrong?

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