View Poll Results: Would you accept Lor'themar Theron as your Warchief

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  • I think Lor'themar Theron would make a fine Warchief. He's got my vote!

    304 37.12%
  • I'd be okay with it. Not the worst candidate.

    191 23.32%
  • I'm neutral on it. Don't care much either way, or am willing to let it slide, no worries.

    91 11.11%
  • No, I personally would not want him as Warchief.

    148 18.07%
  • This would be the worst decision ever! My rage will be felt on this!

    85 10.38%
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  1. #261
    Quote Originally Posted by Mokaproductionist View Post
    Eh, forgive my outburst, but seriously I just don't see elf leading the entire Horde.
    As for the orcs and humans thing, I was referring to the fact that the orcs are the backbone of the Horde, therefore putting some non orc in charge would mess up that base aspect that was in place the very day Warcraft was created.
    Because the orcs have done such a great job so far, right? The second Thrall left, the fit hit the shan.

    Most of what you stated is opinion and not fact. I can appreciate you don't seeing an elf leading the Horde, but this is no longer Warcraft. The story of this universe has progressed quite a long ways. At one time many probably wouldn't have seen the elves as being part of the horde, or the forsaken being part of any faction, or even the night elves being part of any faction.

    The horde of yesteryear is not the horde of today.

  2. #262
    Stood in the Fire tinyninja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mokaproductionist View Post
    Eh, forgive my outburst, but seriously I just don't see elf leading the entire Horde.
    As for the orcs and humans thing, I was referring to the fact that the orcs are the backbone of the Horde, therefore putting some non orc in charge would mess up that base aspect that was in place the very day Warcraft was created.
    It's an evolving game and storyline. Clinging on to old expectations is really just unhealthy for the progression of the game's story. Orcs have had the spotlight for a LONG, long time, and really we should be praising change instead of condemning it. Orcs have had a good run, and whatever the decision may be, I'm sure we will see a lot of major orc players in the coming days of WoW, but it really is time to let other races of the Horde have more of a spotlight and involvement in the Horde. I really doubt putting a non orc in charge of the Horde will suddenly make all of the orcs and their involvement just evaporate.

  3. #263
    Quote Originally Posted by tinyninja View Post
    It's an evolving game and storyline. Clinging on to old expectations is really just unhealthy for the progression of the game's story. Orcs have had the spotlight for a LONG, long time, and really we should be praising change instead of condemning it. Orcs have had a good run, and whatever the decision may be, I'm sure we will see a lot of major orc players in the coming days of WoW, but it really is time to let other races of the Horde have more of a spotlight and involvement in the Horde. I really doubt putting a non orc in charge of the Horde will suddenly make all of the orcs and their involvement just evaporate.
    consider for a moment, from your perspective this is a case of "lor'themar is great! 5.1 and 5.2 show that! we should embrace change for this character to be in the spotlight even more cause he deserves it!"...from another perspective it's "ok, he's been such an uncared for character for so long that until now 'lor'the-who' was a running joke. and despite no one but people who actively look closely at lore knowing who the guy is you want him to lead on no other basis than the last two patches where he got his character development simply because, as kosak said, 'he felt due'". from a THIRD perspective: "his fans will love him regardless but everyone else would be tired of him if he's in the spotlight for another patch or two"...it's the same thing that made people absolutely despise thrall in cata, or removed some of the awe of arthas in wrath, people burn out on characters rather easily in an MMO."
    ...at this point it's almost guaranteed that "war in warcraft" is garrosh getting on his incompetent podium to declare yet another group his enemy for the crime of breathing his air, alliance saying this is horde favoritism, and the more....special....yes.. let's go with special... horde players seeing garrosh as a god because he lets them attack the alliance players who keep saying that out being led by a moron is horde favoritism.

  4. #264
    Quote Originally Posted by razorfire View Post
    consider for a moment, from your perspective this is a case of "lor'themar is great! 5.1 and 5.2 show that! we should embrace change for this character to be in the spotlight even more cause he deserves it!"...from another perspective it's "ok, he's been such an uncared for character for so long that until now 'lor'the-who' was a running joke. and despite no one but people who actively look closely at lore knowing who the guy is you want him to lead on no other basis than the last two patches where he got his character development simply because, as kosak said, 'he felt due'". from a THIRD perspective: "his fans will love him regardless but everyone else would be tired of him if he's in the spotlight for another patch or two"...it's the same thing that made people absolutely despise thrall in cata, or removed some of the awe of arthas in wrath, people burn out on characters rather easily in an MMO."
    Your argument can be applied to any character in this game (as you yourself gave two examples) and as such fails to say why Lor'themar specifically should not be made warchief. ANYONE they elect is going to fall into that criteria.

  5. #265
    Quote Originally Posted by Stuntzii View Post
    Your argument can be applied to any character in this game (as you yourself gave two examples) and as such fails to say why Lor'themar specifically should not be made warchief. ANYONE they elect is going to fall into that criteria.
    exactly. so give me an actual reason that the ONLY horde leader who has been so struck to inaction by self doubt that it took him 3 expansions and a patch to even consider himself the leader of a race that's been calling him that for ages should get to, IMMEDIATELY AFTER, be in charge of not only them but all the others. and know that it can't just be a "well no one will want an orc leader after garrosh messed it up" because you know there's going to be atleast a few in the horde that know he didn't represent the whole race. and also don't say it's because he'll be more diplomatic with the alliance because he just had his only attempt at diplomacy with them thrown back in his face along with a bunch of his people being imprisoned over the actions of two rogue spies that didn't even answer to HIM, then had to put on a nice face to the person who did it to appease taran zhu.
    ...at this point it's almost guaranteed that "war in warcraft" is garrosh getting on his incompetent podium to declare yet another group his enemy for the crime of breathing his air, alliance saying this is horde favoritism, and the more....special....yes.. let's go with special... horde players seeing garrosh as a god because he lets them attack the alliance players who keep saying that out being led by a moron is horde favoritism.

  6. #266
    Quote Originally Posted by razorfire View Post
    exactly. so give me an actual reason that the ONLY horde leader who has been so struck to inaction by self doubt that it took him 3 expansions and a patch to even consider himself the leader of a race that's been calling him that for ages should get to, IMMEDIATELY AFTER, be in charge of not only them but all the others. and know that it can't just be a "well no one will want an orc leader after garrosh messed it up" because you know there's going to be atleast a few in the horde that know he didn't represent the whole race. and also don't say it's because he'll be more diplomatic with the alliance because he just had his only attempt at diplomacy with them thrown back in his face along with a bunch of his people being imprisoned over the actions of two rogue spies that didn't even answer to HIM, then had to put on a nice face to the person who did it to appease taran zhu.
    Read my post about half-way down the page: http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...archief/page13

    EDIT: Again you give an argument that could apply to anyone and in fact counter yourself. So there are two rogue spies? That alone makes him unworthy to lead? Well as you state, Garrosh doesn't represent all orcs, in fact neither does Thrall because if they were all like Thrall, we wouldn't be in this mess. How about Sylvanas... wrathgate anyone? Or the tauren... grimtotem. Etc etc. No racial leader represents all of their people. Hey lets look at the real world. None of the worlds leaders represent the entirety of their populace and certainly have rogue factions in their own governments.
    Last edited by Stuntzii; 2013-08-27 at 12:07 AM.

  7. #267
    Stood in the Fire tinyninja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by razorfire View Post
    consider for a moment, from your perspective this is a case of "lor'themar is great! 5.1 and 5.2 show that! we should embrace change for this character to be in the spotlight even more cause he deserves it!"...from another perspective it's "ok, he's been such an uncared for character for so long that until now 'lor'the-who' was a running joke. and despite no one but people who actively look closely at lore knowing who the guy is you want him to lead on no other basis than the last two patches where he got his character development simply because, as kosak said, 'he felt due'". from a THIRD perspective: "his fans will love him regardless but everyone else would be tired of him if he's in the spotlight for another patch or two"...it's the same thing that made people absolutely despise thrall in cata, or removed some of the awe of arthas in wrath, people burn out on characters rather easily in an MMO."
    But then Vol'jin was exactly the same for up until the pre-Cata patch, and he is the other popular choice. Rexxar is another popular choice that people seem to be OK with, despite doing NOTHING meaningful since Frozen Throne. Most of the characters have void areas where they've done absolutely nothing for a while, that doesn't mean anything. Lor'themar had moments in BC, WotLK, and of course has made himself a major player in MoP. Assuming that everyone will be "tired of him" is very premature, you can't know that until it's happened. Everyone hated Thrall's involvement in Cata because he was so integral to the plot for seemingly no reason other than that Blizzard said so. No one would get sick of Lor'themar if he was just shown doing his duties as the leader of the Horde. There are some characters that have had a lot of longevity in WoW, Sylvanas is a great example, Cairne and Baine are another, even Tyrande, Malfurion, and the Bronzebeards on the Alliance side.

    So far everyone likes Lor'themar, more so(I would wager) than Vol'jin... it's only when you start discussing him as a Warchief are when people get up in arms about him. If Lor'themar was an orc he would be everyone's favourite candidate by a long shot, but no of course he's a blood elf so he would be a terrible warchief . I'm not begrudging anyone if they don't like Lor'themar, that's completely up to them and a fine opinion to have. I'm just speaking out against anyone who thinks that it can't be done for no other reason than that they don't like it.

  8. #268
    Quote Originally Posted by tinyninja View Post
    <snip>I'm just speaking out against anyone who thinks that it can't be done for no other reason than that they don't like it.
    EXACTLY... I've yet to see an intelligent argument as to why, specifically he should not be made warchief other than his race. Any other arguments I've seen are full of loopholes that can be applied to any number of the other discussed candidates.

  9. #269
    Quote Originally Posted by Stuntzii View Post
    Read my post about half-way down the page: http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...archief/page13
    your post is saying that the guy who doesn't want the job should have the job "because he needs to" when he doesn't need to, that he's diplomatic because he's sick of the group that wants to kill him AND the group they also want to kill at the same time and is already being told to stand down from a fight by the person both sides are respectfully listening to, and supposedly likely to try an attempt at resources that only stopped when thrall (another candidate) left the post and didn't start in the first place until garrosh went on his conquering spree. other candidates who would rather not fight and aren't likely to try to get resources through smash and grab: thrall, saurfang, eitrigg, heck rexxar was apparently meant to get a cameo in 5.3 but it was cut cause they didn't have the time, vol'jin, baine, even sylvanas (if you look at it most of her aggression is pretty much over now that she has lordaeron under her control and without garrosh forcing her to attack gilneas there's no real point in her doing anything but setting up an armed border). and if you go by the same thing that's propelling all of the lor'themar for warchief fans which is that he recently got a big dose of lore then consider that ALMOST ALL OF THE PEOPLE MENTIONED ARE ALSO GETTING CAMEOS OR LORE. so again, without using something I've already pointed out a counter to, tell me why if all of them can be set to equal with the argument I made before, lor'themar is somehow THE best choice to the point that it's worth making 2-3 threads all about how you think he should be warchief when it's more likely blizzard will hand it back to thrall and reset horde/alliance relations for the sake of consistency in leadership.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by tinyninja View Post
    But then Vol'jin was exactly the same for up until the pre-Cata patch, and he is the other popular choice. Rexxar is another popular choice that people seem to be OK with, despite doing NOTHING meaningful since Frozen Throne. Most of the characters have void areas where they've done absolutely nothing for a while, that doesn't mean anything. Lor'themar had moments in BC, WotLK, and of course has made himself a major player in MoP. Assuming that everyone will be "tired of him" is very premature, you can't know that until it's happened. Everyone hated Thrall's involvement in Cata because he was so integral to the plot for seemingly no reason other than that Blizzard said so. No one would get sick of Lor'themar if he was just shown doing his duties as the leader of the Horde. There are some characters that have had a lot of longevity in WoW, Sylvanas is a great example, Cairne and Baine are another, even Tyrande, Malfurion, and the Bronzebeards on the Alliance side.

    So far everyone likes Lor'themar, more so(I would wager) than Vol'jin... it's only when you start discussing him as a Warchief are when people get up in arms about him. If Lor'themar was an orc he would be everyone's favourite candidate by a long shot, but no of course he's a blood elf so he would be a terrible warchief . I'm not begrudging anyone if they don't like Lor'themar, that's completely up to them and a fine opinion to have. I'm just speaking out against anyone who thinks that it can't be done for no other reason than that they don't like it.
    ...actually I think he'd be a terrible warchief if he were an orc too, the point I've been trying to hammer home about only just suddenly getting confident in leadership is pretty similar to how garrosh got so bad that people are throwing out the "it shouldn't be an orc" argument. they were both depressed and highly lacking confidence in their leadership abilities. they both had something bring them out and start a sudden burst of ambition, the difference is lor'themar has yet to reach the point where it's either curb your goals or go powermad that garrosh completely failed to understand. but the parallel is seemingly lost under the belief that all arguments against him are just "well he's an elf! I don't like elves cause they aren't mean and dirty enough!"...and yeah personally I'd love to see a non orc leader of the horde, but logically it wouldn't be warchief, and logically blizzard is likely to keep the leader orc and the capital orgrimar just off the basis of not making a huge shift to the hierarchy in lore and gameplay.
    ...at this point it's almost guaranteed that "war in warcraft" is garrosh getting on his incompetent podium to declare yet another group his enemy for the crime of breathing his air, alliance saying this is horde favoritism, and the more....special....yes.. let's go with special... horde players seeing garrosh as a god because he lets them attack the alliance players who keep saying that out being led by a moron is horde favoritism.

  10. #270
    Scarab Lord foxHeart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stuntzii View Post
    EXACTLY... I've yet to see an intelligent argument as to why, specifically he should not be made warchief other than his race. Any other arguments I've seen are full of loopholes that can be applied to any number of the other discussed candidates.
    His race is reason enough. The blood elves are outsiders. They are not Horde. They are in an alliance of convenience. The tauren, orcs, and trolls are all basically sworn brothers - why they Hell would they let a blood elf be "warchief"? Would they let Sylvanas be "warqueen"? No. Because they're outsiders. There, that was easy.

    Also, yes, blood elves are fairies while the rest of the real Horde are brutes and savages.
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  11. #271
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    Quote Originally Posted by foxHeart View Post
    His race is reason enough. The blood elves are outsiders. They are not Horde. They are in an alliance of convenience. The tauren, orcs, and trolls are all basically sworn brothers - why they Hell would they let a blood elf be "warchief"? Would they let Sylvanas be "warqueen"? No. Because they're outsiders. There, that was easy.

    Also, yes, blood elves are fairies while the rest of the real Horde are brutes and savages.
    With Garosh going all racist about everything not orcish, it would actually make sense to put a Warchief that isn't of the original Horde. It would be a good opportunity for the Blood Elves to actually take a real part to the Horde.

    Personnally as soon as the polls about the next warchief, i always thought it would be either Lor'Themar.

    Sylvanas as warqueen, i would if she wasn't Valkyr crazy.
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  12. #272
    Quote Originally Posted by razorfire View Post
    tell me why if all of them can be set to equal with the argument I made before, lor'themar is somehow THE best choice to the point that it's worth making 2-3 threads all about how you think he should be warchief when it's more likely blizzard will hand it back to thrall and reset horde/alliance relations for the sake of consistency in leadership.
    I didn't make a single thread, nevermind multiple. I am giving an argument as to why based on how things were presented in the game he in fact would be a good leader vs all the people crying about the idea because 'he's an elf'. Thrall will not be getting brought back. The idea is just ludicrous. They've said it'll be someone we won't expect which also makes Lor'themar a candidate.

    - - - Updated - - -



    ...actually I think he'd be a terrible warchief if he were an orc too, the point I've been trying to hammer home about only just suddenly getting confident in leadership is pretty similar to how garrosh got so bad that people are throwing out the "it shouldn't be an orc" argument. they were both depressed and highly lacking confidence in their leadership abilities. they both had something bring them out and start a sudden burst of ambition, the difference is lor'themar has yet to reach the point where it's either curb your goals or go powermad that garrosh completely failed to understand. but the parallel is seemingly lost under the belief that all arguments against him are just "well he's an elf! I don't like elves cause they aren't mean and dirty enough!"...and yeah personally I'd love to see a non orc leader of the horde, but logically it wouldn't be warchief, and logically blizzard is likely to keep the leader orc and the capital orgrimar just off the basis of not making a huge shift to the hierarchy in lore and gameplay.
    Except almost every argument I see comes down to race. Your arguments are certainly a better attempt but can be applied to almost anyone.

    As for your 'logic' assumption of what Blizzard will do, that's all it is is an assumption with no basis in anything shown in the game.

    And 'logically it wouldn't be warchief'... well maybe it's time they got rid of the warchief mantle, ya? How much of a 'war'chief was Thrall? I love Thrall so don't get my following comment wrong... but he was a treehugger. Yeah he acted when he needed to but Thrall was about as much of a 'war'chief as I am. It's a dated title.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by foxHeart View Post
    His race is reason enough. The blood elves are outsiders. They are not Horde. They are in an alliance of convenience. The tauren, orcs, and trolls are all basically sworn brothers - why they Hell would they let a blood elf be "warchief"? Would they let Sylvanas be "warqueen"? No. Because they're outsiders. There, that was easy.

    Also, yes, blood elves are fairies while the rest of the real Horde are brutes and savages.
    No, it's not. And the orcs trolls and tauren all started out as a relation of convenience. That's exactly what the horde is, a relationship of different races come together out of convenience.

    They'd let him be warchief for the same reason they bent over and let Thrall make Garrosh Warchief. Because at the end of the day, the horde is whatever the devs say it is.

    Oh and if the rest of the 'true horde' are such savage brutes, why are they ousting the king moron? Because they're not savage brutes.
    Last edited by Stuntzii; 2013-08-27 at 12:53 AM.

  13. #273
    Stood in the Fire tinyninja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by razorfire View Post
    ...actually I think he'd be a terrible warchief if he were an orc too, the point I've been trying to hammer home about only just suddenly getting confident in leadership is pretty similar to how garrosh got so bad that people are throwing out the "it shouldn't be an orc" argument. they were both depressed and highly lacking confidence in their leadership abilities. they both had something bring them out and start a sudden burst of ambition, the difference is lor'themar has yet to reach the point where it's either curb your goals or go powermad that garrosh completely failed to understand. but the parallel is seemingly lost under the belief that all arguments against him are just "well he's an elf! I don't like elves cause they aren't mean and dirty enough!"...and yeah personally I'd love to see a non orc leader of the horde, but logically it wouldn't be warchief, and logically blizzard is likely to keep the leader orc and the capital orgrimar just off the basis of not making a huge shift to the hierarchy in lore and gameplay.
    Whoah, whoah, whoah, slow down. First of all there are zero parallels to Garrosh and Lor'themar. Lor'themar was "depressed" because his prince had betrayed him and was forced to fight a civil war with his already shattered people. He wasn't sure of his position because becoming the permanent ruler of the blood elves was a huge step he was forced to take and not one he was preparing to do, he was fully convinced that Kael'thas would return and take back the mantle of leadership. His responsibility as the Regent Lord was a sacrifice for him, not a privilege. Being hesitant and a lack of confidence when taking such a huge responsibility is not a sign of weakness, it's a perfectly normal and 'human' reaction that can take a bit of time to come to terms with.

    Quote Originally Posted by foxHeart View Post
    His race is reason enough. The blood elves are outsiders. They are not Horde. They are in an alliance of convenience. The tauren, orcs, and trolls are all basically sworn brothers - why they Hell would they let a blood elf be "warchief"? Would they let Sylvanas be "warqueen"? No. Because they're outsiders. There, that was easy.

    Also, yes, blood elves are fairies while the rest of the real Horde are brutes and savages.
    Blood Elves are not outsiders, or in an "alliance of convenience" anymore, though I'm sure that term originated with the Forsaken and was never used to describe Silvermoon's membership. They've dedicated tons of soldiers and supplies to the Horde war effort since the BC. People really need to understand that the Horde is NOT just the orcs, tauren, and trolls anymore, and neither are they better or more privileged than blood elves, or any other race. I'll say you're completely right if you can find any mention in game, post BC, that Blood Elves are not members of the Horde and are just outsiders.

  14. #274
    I think it will be Lorthemar as warchief. In the kossak interview, he said that alliance will have a say in the new warchief.

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  15. #275
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    I want another option.

    Either if given a choice between having lor'themar as warchief, or peeling off all my skin and rolling around in salt.. i'd choose option 2.

  16. #276
    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    I want another option.

    Either if given a choice between having lor'themar as warchief, or peeling off all my skin and rolling around in salt.. i'd choose option 2.
    Would you roll alliance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Simulatio View Post
    A handful of people nut-busting about it on various forums does not equal popularity, and popularity does not equal good design.

  17. #277
    Quote Originally Posted by Sukhoi View Post
    I think it will be Lorthemar as warchief. In the kossak interview, he said that alliance will have a say in the new warchief.
    If that's the case, that supports some of my points even further. The elves having formerly been of the alliance, Wrynn being willing to accept them back into the alliance. If he's willing to take them back into the alliance that means he trusts them. If he trusts them enough to accept them back into the ranks of the alliance, he'd trust them to lead the Horde.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    I want another option.

    Either if given a choice between having lor'themar as warchief, or peeling off all my skin and rolling around in salt.. i'd choose option 2.
    Can I watch? Or can you at least post it to youtube... cause odds are pretty good it's Lor'themar. BTW... do you have a specific reason for not wanting him as warchief beyond 'der, he a puff elf hur hur'?

  18. #278
    I think the Blood Elves being in the Horde at all is enough of a stretch as it is. Non-Orc Warchief would be weird enough. Blood Elves? Just seems wrong.

    Not that I don't like Lor'Themar, but even as leader of the Blood Elves he still comes off as a less iconic leader than Kael'thas. I mean he's come a long way in ToT but still.

    So, I wouldn't say I hate him or that he wouldn't make a good Warchief, he might. But it would be a strange choice to say the least.
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  19. #279
    The Insane Trassk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stuntzii View Post

    Can I watch? Or can you at least post it to youtube... cause odds are pretty good it's Lor'themar. BTW... do you have a specific reason for not wanting him as warchief beyond 'der, he a puff elf hur hur'?
    So, the blood elf nobody whos name they could even remember prior to mists now suddenly the gang bang wants him to be warchief because he got a little bit of lore.

    Yeah thats the kind of logic I expect from the wow community these days.

    Lor'themar has no idea how to govern anyone outside of his own people. He has no idea about the harshness of life races like trolls and orcs live in durotar, and he wouldn't give up living in his shiny silvermoon for that reason.

    And as many have said, he was five minutes away from leaving the horde altogether and joining the alliance, if not for Jaina and her doings. He isn't 100% loyal, and it took someone in the alliance saying 'fuk u' to make him change his mind. Thats not someone i want leading the horde, hell, even Garrosh had more loyalty as a raving sociopath

    lor'themar works fine in his position, have him build his role as a stronger leader for the blood elves.. but if you make him warchief, that role becomes all but pointless and he can't develop in it well having to deal with the entire horde.

  20. #280
    The Insane Trassk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xaragoth View Post
    Make a video of your second option after he becomes warchief :P
    man, nobody even gets the reference do they..

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