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  1. #201
    The Lightbringer Moon Blade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FreePies View Post
    did anyone else notice he said the dragon aspects have been alive for 40k years?
    I thought he said fifteen, not fifty. definitely didn't hear a four anywhere there, I should re-listen o.O
    If it's not an elf, leave it on the shelf.

  2. #202
    Quote Originally Posted by FreePies View Post
    did anyone else notice he said the dragon aspects have been alive for 40k years?
    The last number we had was 65, but the RPG books are non-canon, so...

  3. #203
    Legendary! KrazyK923's Avatar
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    Sounded like he said "fifty" to me.
    Men, you've trained for this. You're among the elite. You are Skyfire men! This is the ship that took down Deathwing. You think some raggedy little Horde outpost stands a chance against the pride of the Alliance fleet? NO! Those green dirtbags down there plagued your homes in Southshore, laid siege to your children in Redridge, and massacred every man, woman and child in Theramore. It. Is. PAYBACK TIME!
    Sky Admiral Rogers for High Queen. Remember Theramore!

  4. #204
    Quote Originally Posted by Tauror View Post
    Which is precisely why I made my post about the "strawman". People tend to use it wrongly and on this thread was the example of it.
    You didn't pay one lick of attention did you?

    Moon Blade said this. "No, really? Like I said, you do the exact same thing, one side gets you a conqueror title, the other side gets you a liberator title. Conquest and liberation are completely different things so how is the Alliance conquering a city that the Horde is liberating?"

    Callei responded to that saying, "The Alliance win. That the rebels go to them for help at all should give you a very good idea about how far up shit creek they would be otherwise. Full stop, Vol'jin even owns up to it if you challenge him on it. The Alliance get the 'Conqueror of Orgrimmar' title because they used the rebellion to minimize their own losses, kill the Warchief, wipe out the Kor'kron loyalists, and put the rebels in a position where they have to play ball with the Alliance in choosing the next Warchief. Really, dude, stop and think about what Kosak said here and the way he said it: the Alliance allow the Horde to pick a Warchief who will work with them.

    The rebels get the Liberator title because that's what they're doing--they're liberating Orgrimmar from Hellscream's tyranny. The only disconnect here is from people who want half the playerbase to have to spend like three months ingame in a prison cell or something because ermagerd our characters actually aren't all that picky with who our employers are so long as the pay's good."

    Moon Blade is person C in my example. He/she did not in any way mention putting Horde players in prison cells, then Callei mentioned the bolded. An argument was misrepresented. The misrepresentation was attacked. It doesn't matter if somebody other than Moon Blade said that at some point in the history of these forums, because Moon Blade did not make the claim and that's who Callei was responding to when making the bolded comment.

    Really, I don't know what I can't believe more; the fact that I'm taking the time to explain basic fundamentals of debating, or that you still don't get it.
    If Goku's power level increases at the same rate till the end of DBGT as it does till the end of the Frieza saga, as a SS4 Goku would have a PL of roughly 939 Quinoctogintillion. For reference that is a 260 digit number. A PL of 14,600 is required to destroy an earth sized planet. There are about 2 nonillion earths worth of mass in the universe. That means SS4 Goku can destroy the universe about 32 Octosexagintillion times over. There's a reason they made Goku a god at the end of GT.

  5. #205
    The Lightbringer Moon Blade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laurcus View Post
    Moon Blade is person C in my example. He/she did not in any way mention putting Horde players in prison cells, then Callei mentioned the bolded. An argument was misrepresented. The misrepresentation was attacked.
    she, and thank you. What I've been saying I want has been made clear throughout this but I felt like a broken record early on. Callei said GC mentioned something about reparations in key areas, namely Ashenvale and Gilneas. My response is if that happens, I'm satisfied with the outcome. I just won't build myself up to an expectation.
    If it's not an elf, leave it on the shelf.

  6. #206
    Banned But I Hate You All's Avatar
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    Soo is the ally fist pumping moment......REALLY?



    wow

  7. #207
    Did any1 notice when he asked about Alleria and Turalyon how he "kinda" hinted at the Twisting nether? By saying something: this part of the lore has just been waiting in the nether

  8. #208
    Over 9000! apepi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gorefiend1 View Post
    Did any1 notice when he asked about Alleria and Turalyon how he "kinda" hinted at the Twisting nether? By saying something: this part of the lore has just been waiting in the nether
    Yeah, I thought that too.
    Time...line? Time isn't made out of lines. It is made out of circles. That is why clocks are round. ~ Caboose

  9. #209
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    You weren't there to experience stopping Garrosh's plans in 5.1?
    It took a dev interview to "confirm" that was the actual resolution.

    [You weren't there to experience kicking the BElves out of Dalaran?
    The Alliance players attacked a few shopkeepers and imprisoned a few BElfs and their families.
    The Horde got to stage a jailbreak.

    Maybe you didn't see the Horde completely dissolving, and only got a tease of the Alliance coming together.
    I saw the Horde dissolve. The Alliance "coming together"? Not so much. Whats different now as opposed to...Vanilla?

    You don't get to experience marching into Orgrimmar, taking an enemy capital, killing every orc in sight, killing the Warchief, then allowing the Horde to pick a successor that the Alliance can work with?
    Not really pumped for it as Alliance. Because I know that the next step is Varian doing an Andorhal

    "We won. Great. Lets pretend we lost and retreat". I can hope Blizzard does something they've rarely done before and surprise us with an actual explanation that makes sense.

    EJL

  10. #210
    A part of the story waiting out there

    Out there in the

    Nether

    OUT THERE IN THE DARK BELOW
    OUT THERE IN THE TWISTING NETHER

  11. #211
    Scarab Lord Sky High's Avatar
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    so Kosak is telling the allies to take a chill pill? damn I can only imagine the amount of QQ that's going to generate. he does list all the things the allies accomplish in MoP, I guess its a matter of perspective.

  12. #212
    Quote Originally Posted by Last Starfighter View Post
    Uh, Garrosh is my leader. He's the leader of the orcs, and leader of the horde. And the last time I checked, the alliance is getting a title that involves conquering the horde capital city. That's fucking huge. Horde doesn't have "Conqueror of Southshore" let alone "Conqueror of Stormwind". Yet, the forums are going to rain with QQ once 5.4 hits.
    Nope.

    Garrosh is the leader of the Orcs who follow him. You are not one of them.

    They and he are a new faction. The True Horde.
    Ferlion <level 85 Druid - Proudmoore>
    Formerly known as the Warlock Shadowsouled - Windrunner

    Proud poster of the Story Forums. I got your faction wank right here.

  13. #213
    Quote Originally Posted by ruinshin View Post
    Nope.

    Garrosh is the leader of the Orcs who follow him. You are not one of them.

    They and he are a new faction. The True Horde.
    i dunno i felt it was more like the other races being kicked out to form their own group and Garrosh being left with the remnants of the Horde which he just re-named

    thats what some alliance players dont get, they think theyre helping the Horde faction liberate Orgrimmar from a tyrant with his own faction

    when in reality its the Alliance players going in full force with a glorious armada to take down any Horde still standing, and let a bunch of disgruntled rebels who arent really part of the Horde anymore do what they want with the leftovers

  14. #214
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreamvillain View Post
    i dunno i felt it was more like the other races being kicked out to form their own group and Garrosh being left with the remnants of the Horde

    thats what some alliance players dont get, they think theyre helping the Horde faction liberate Orgrimmar from a tyrant with his own faction

    when in reality its the Alliance players going in full force with a glorious armada to take down any Horde still standing, and let a bunch of disgruntled rebels do what they want with the leftovers
    Except it's not. It's the Orcs, not even all of the Orcs, able to hold off the Alliance, and they need the rebels to pull it off.

    The entire expansion, the short stories, everything, is built up to show the Alliance can't beat the Horde.....unless the Horde split.

    But, beyond that, what many Horde players (and Blizzard) don't seem to understand is it doesn't matter who wins.

    We have no attachment to the Alliance factions. The races have been marginalized, the developers have called racial leaders incompetent, a demi-god said the same leader isn't fit to lead, the Dwarves were made a joke, Varian "High King" happened off screen with no explanation, and Stormwind and humanity dominate the story, yet get no lore themselves.

    We are, sans a few minor things, in the exact same place we were in Wrath of the Lich King.. And I'm not even joking, because Varian was Supreme Allied Commander (which is, apparently the same fucking thing as High King because why the fuck not give Varian the job twice?) in Wrath, the races were largely marginalized.

    We have no story. What story hooks we do have are stripped away (For fucks sake, they just said Elune uses the fucking light), the faction has no identity, the races don't have any flavor, and when our "story" does progress, it's done in the "Well, guys, this happened but you don't see it" method.

    Winning isn't the problem. Winning was never the problem. Taking shots at the Alliance fanbase because they are not happy isnt' helping, ESPECIALLY when the things they do to try and "fix" the problem are repeatedly said to NOT BE THE FUCKING PROBLEM!.

    It's so fucking bad that when we get our "feedback" read back to us it's like.. totally not what was said.

    As in... "Players don't like espionage quests" is what they took out of Alliance players feeling jipped when they got a robo cat instead of a voiced raid on a town with major heros.
    Ferlion <level 85 Druid - Proudmoore>
    Formerly known as the Warlock Shadowsouled - Windrunner

    Proud poster of the Story Forums. I got your faction wank right here.

  15. #215
    Quote Originally Posted by ruinshin View Post
    Except it's not. It's the Orcs, not even all of the Orcs, able to hold off the Alliance, and they need the rebels to pull it off.

    The entire expansion, the short stories, everything, is built up to show the Alliance can't beat the Horde.....unless the Horde split.

    But, beyond that, what many Horde players (and Blizzard) don't seem to understand is it doesn't matter who wins.

    We have no attachment to the Alliance factions. The races have been marginalized, the developers have called racial leaders incompetent, a demi-god said the same leader isn't fit to lead, the Dwarves were made a joke, Varian "High King" happened off screen with no explanation, and Stormwind and humanity dominate the story, yet get no lore themselves.

    We are, sans a few minor things, in the exact same place we were in Wrath of the Lich King.. And I'm not even joking, because Varian was Supreme Allied Commander (which is, apparently the same fucking thing as High King because why the fuck not give Varian the job twice?) in Wrath, the races were largely marginalized.

    We have no story. What story hooks we do have are stripped away (For fucks sake, they just said Elune uses the fucking light), the faction has no identity, the races don't have any flavor, and when our "story" does progress, it's done in the "Well, guys, this happened but you don't see it" method.

    Winning isn't the problem. Winning was never the problem. Taking shots at the Alliance fanbase because they are not happy isnt' helping, ESPECIALLY when the things they do to try and "fix" the problem are repeatedly said to NOT BE THE FUCKING PROBLEM!.

    It's so fucking bad that when we get our "feedback" read back to us it's like.. totally not what was said.

    As in... "Players don't like espionage quests" is what they took out of Alliance players feeling jipped when they got a robo cat instead of a voiced raid on a town with major heros.
    i think what alliance gets to do is cool on pen and paper, but they need better character development and coverage

    their heroes arent expanded enough and theres not that depth and real feeling of any different cogs in the machine that all need to work together
    jaina was done great
    varian has been made into a cool leader
    anduin has been given nice coverage

    but its just humans, theres not really a focus being shown on an actual "Alliance" except two scenarios

    Maybe theres some Night Elves in there as well

  16. #216
    Immortal Arbs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mojomaker View Post
    Sure, learning about raid mechanics and new dailies is great for some people, but the only thing that matters to me is the story.
    Let's get super nerdy with Dave Kosak, Lead Quest designer, and ask him the important questions :P

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=osB0_0G5N8g

    Topics include:

    5.4:
    Are you still happy with announcing Garrosh's defeat as early as you did?
    Metzen mentioned at launch that this expansion was the build up to the war - is this still the case and bigger conflict is coming? Or is this the actual war now?
    Alliance fist pump moment - it was promised - what is it?
    What is the moment (in your mind) when Garrosh "becomes a bad guy", seems like he just did all the sudden?
    What important orcs are left now since most are dead? Will we see any of them return (wink wink)?
    Why leave Sylvannas out of the main story line? Is it like Rhonin in Cata? Just couldn't fit him in?
    Why are the Klaxxi joining Garrosh?

    Random:
    Which came first? Old Gods or Titans?
    Where is Dalaran? where is it going?
    What are the Naaru up to?
    And Draenei - they getting some story soon?
    Will we ever seen the Dragon Aspects again?
    Is there anything below Tirisfal? (This is the final answer on this question guys)
    Where are the following people? Will we see them soon?
    Gallywix?
    Rexxar?
    Me'dan?
    Magatha Grimtotem?
    Bolvar?
    Alleria and Turalyon?
    Thank you again Jesse .

  17. #217
    Quote Originally Posted by ruinshin View Post
    Except it's not. It's the Orcs, not even all of the Orcs, able to hold off the Alliance, and they need the rebels to pull it off.

    The entire expansion, the short stories, everything, is built up to show the Alliance can't beat the Horde.....unless the Horde split.

    But, beyond that, what many Horde players (and Blizzard) don't seem to understand is it doesn't matter who wins.

    We have no attachment to the Alliance factions. The races have been marginalized, the developers have called racial leaders incompetent, a demi-god said the same leader isn't fit to lead, the Dwarves were made a joke, Varian "High King" happened off screen with no explanation, and Stormwind and humanity dominate the story, yet get no lore themselves.

    We are, sans a few minor things, in the exact same place we were in Wrath of the Lich King.. And I'm not even joking, because Varian was Supreme Allied Commander (which is, apparently the same fucking thing as High King because why the fuck not give Varian the job twice?) in Wrath, the races were largely marginalized.

    We have no story. What story hooks we do have are stripped away (For fucks sake, they just said Elune uses the fucking light), the faction has no identity, the races don't have any flavor, and when our "story" does progress, it's done in the "Well, guys, this happened but you don't see it" method.

    Winning isn't the problem. Winning was never the problem. Taking shots at the Alliance fanbase because they are not happy isnt' helping, ESPECIALLY when the things they do to try and "fix" the problem are repeatedly said to NOT BE THE FUCKING PROBLEM!.

    It's so fucking bad that when we get our "feedback" read back to us it's like.. totally not what was said.

    As in... "Players don't like espionage quests" is what they took out of Alliance players feeling jipped when they got a robo cat instead of a voiced raid on a town with major heros.
    i think what alliance gets to do is cool on pen and paper, but they need better character development and coverage

    their heroes arent expanded enough and theres not that depth and real feeling of any different cogs in the machine that all need to work together
    jaina was done great
    varian has been made into a cool leader
    anduin has been given nice coverage

    but its just humans, theres not really a focus being shown on an actual "Alliance" except two scenarios

    Maybe theres some Night Elves in there as well

    Meanwhile in 5.1 we saw Lor'themar gets HUUUUGE coverage and the Belves expanded lore
    We saw Baine and his stance on things expand a bit
    We saw a huuuuuge step for Vol'jin
    Sylvanas was given all her development in Wotlk and Cata
    Garrosh, Thrall, Saurfang, nuff said
    Gallywix is the only leader not given any coverage, but the Goblins are given TONS of time in the spotlight

    As for the Alliance
    Varian, Jaina, Anduin, all well done
    Tyrande, seeing hot-headed Tyrande again was cool, still didnt see much
    Council of Three Hammers, Moira gets coverage, im happy with any lore coverage but...Moira..? They ignored the MUCH needed Bronzebeard coverage of Muradin and gave it to...Moira? I sound so spoilt when I say this but, does anybody actually care about Moira..?
    Velen, nope
    Mekkatorque, appearing in a short cameo
    Greymane, lol

  18. #218
    A really good interview (yay lore!) and the accompanying art/video clips were awesome as well. Enjoyed it thoroughly.

  19. #219
    Herald of the Titans Paula Deen's Avatar
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    I will ask the same thing I asked on the interview. Why can we phase Theramore to "further the story" but not Dalaran, Ashenvale, or the Barrens. Really. Should also add, I am not mad at all, I don't care for the fist pump moment at all (if Varian gets crowned High King thats enough for me) but it is an honest question.
    Last edited by Paula Deen; 2013-08-26 at 04:21 AM.

  20. #220
    Herald of the Titans Kathranis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyberowl View Post
    Sad to hear about the Tirisfal part and actually using it in the future would be like "Hey, look what we pulled out of our asses" and this is what basically ends the "below Tirisfal" thing.
    Well, everything is ultimately pulled out of their asses. Leaving unexplored story hooks is a key to writing good ongoing fiction, it's just that writers usually don't explain the dirty secret that they didn't actually plan everything from the start, so people see the connections to past story hooks and assume the writers are geniuses who always had it all figured out.

    If you ever write a novel series, just remember to leave breadcrumbs here and there. Vague, named characters. Mentionings of locations. Bits of history. When you need a new story hook further down the line, instead of coming up with something new, take one of those ideas you'd already seeded and develop it out. Almost nobody will realize that you're pulling it out of your ass.

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