Lore Interview with Dave Kosak

[Aquamonkey]

Wow, you still don't get it.

The first one again fails the distinction.

If you want to amend your statement to "A few crazy people want the Horde faction gone" then that's fine, but it seems nothing more than a fringe that even other Alliance players dismiss as stupid.

But I appreciate the attempt at what you're doing. Still doesn't mean its correct.

Because it fails some random "in-game vs player" criteria you invented?

These are the things they want to happen: annihilating certain Horde factions, Bad Horde destroying Good Horde, imposing ridiculous restrictions, having the Horde be under Alliance administration, deporting the orcs to Outland, etc. Please tell me how any of that happening wouldn't break the game.

[Trassk]

It sounds like Blizzard wants to weaken the Orcs because they want a non-Orc Warchief to allow some sort of peace treaty between the Alliance and the Horde, even if it's only temporary. But maybe I'm reading too much into it.

I don't get what there doing with the orcs right now. I mean before Garroah came into the picture and all this mess, the orcs were even back then the main body of the horde, being that one that started it all, gathering other races into it, having heroes like saurfang, rexxar and Nazgrel, and for all intents and purpose, with his honor in tact and overcoming being slaves of demons and humans, they were doing alright.
Then, garroah came into it, he touched every good aspect of the redeemed orcish society, and now so much of it is being killed off.. where the fuck does it leave the orcs?

[Deleted]

Because it fails some random "in-game vs player" criteria you invented?

These are the things they want to happen: annihilating certain Horde factions, Bad Horde destroying Good Horde, imposing ridiculous restrictions, having the Horde be under Alliance administration, deporting the orcs to Outland, etc. Please tell me how any of that happening wouldn't break the game.

Once more, the person you have quoted [Kazomir] merely argued that the storytelling itself -with no reasons given for 'leave Horde alone' decision- suggests that it [as in: destruction of opposing faction during a WAR] would have been a logical thing to come out of it - as Blizzard gave no in-game explaination as to why it would have been foolish. No farseers indicating that purging Horde will cause the downfall of Azeroth at the hands of Sargeras... no commanders telling us that the war cannot be won... no written indication that Alliance is on its last legs...
AT NO POINT KAZOMIR HAS SUGGESTED THAT THIS IS WHAT HE WANTS BLIZZARD TO IMPLEMENT.

Normally, I would have paid no further attention to your post rather than acknowledgement. But your history of conduct on this board makes it clear that you see Alliance fanbase as some sort of ruinous element whose every word needs to be disproven as a rule in itself. Your 'work' with datamined material does little to improve this notion.

- - -
A question to wider audience: As I am a new visitor on this board, can someone please enlighten me why people who associate themselves with Alliance are looked down at as if they were... some kind of a 'subhuman'? Is there... any undoing that... 'earned' this sort of treatment?

[KrazyK923]

Because it fails some random "in-game vs player" criteria you invented?

These are the things they want to happen: annihilating certain Horde factions, Bad Horde destroying Good Horde, imposing ridiculous restrictions, having the Horde be under Alliance administration, deporting the orcs to Outland, etc. Please tell me how any of that happening wouldn't break the game.

Random? I'm sorry you fail to understand the idea that there's a very clear difference between presenting ideas within the context of the current story and players from outside the story offering suggestions. The vast majority that you've brought up fall under the former, when the latter is what you said the Alliance were seriously offering.

Like I said, blatant Strawman. And at this point, and knowing how and in what context you post shit on this forum, I'm done with you. Peace.

[Faroth]

But they once were, the Horde is coming out of this with a lot more holes in its strength than the Alliance

This. Spot on.


I'm just doubtful there will be any indication other than Horde and Alliance being dead equal in strength and influence by next expansion.

[KrazyK923]

A question to wider audience: As I am a new visitor on this board, can someone please enlighten me why people who associate themselves with Alliance are looked down at as if they were... some kind of a 'subhuman'? Is there... any undoing that... 'earned' this sort of treatment?

Because certain Horde players like to think that the Alliance being upset with the terrible storytelling we've had foisted upon us somehow means we're whining and/or want to just blanket destroy the Horde like the strawman Aquamonkey keeps spouting.

So we're just crying babies who can't apparently get over the fact that being tacked on as a secondary note to a story is irrational because we get shit like a title that says "Conqueror of Orgrimmar."

[Deleted]

Did anyone already write down the questions and answers in that video?

[El_Diabl0]

I don't get what there doing with the orcs right now. I mean before Garroah came into the picture and all this mess, the orcs were even back then the main body of the horde, being that one that started it all, gathering other races into it, having heroes like saurfang, rexxar and Nazgrel, and for all intents and purpose, with his honor in tact and overcoming being slaves of demons and humans, they were doing alright.
Then, garroah came into it, he touched every good aspect of the redeemed orcish society, and now so much of it is being killed off.. where the fuck does it leave the orcs?

We'll have to wait and see, I suppose. But I really don't like where things are going.

[Aquamonkey]

Random? I'm sorry you fail to understand the idea that there's a very clear difference between presenting ideas within the context of the current story and players from outside the story offering suggestions. The vast majority that you've brought up fall under the former, when the latter is what you said the Alliance were seriously offering.

Like I said, blatant Strawman. And at this point, and knowing how and in what context you post shit on this forum, I'm done with you. Peace.

No, those are the things they want to see happen... Things they think should happen... They're pissed off that they won't happen because "lol game," can't destroy the game for half the players.

You're the one strawmanning. Nowhere did I say they were representative of everyone who plays the Alliance. My exact words were "small group."

[bufferunderrun]

I don't get what there doing with the orcs right now. I mean before Garroah came into the picture and all this mess, the orcs were even back then the main body of the horde, being that one that started it all, gathering other races into it, having heroes like saurfang, rexxar and Nazgrel, and for all intents and purpose, with his honor in tact and overcoming being slaves of demons and humans, they were doing alright.
Then, garroah came into it, he touched every good aspect of the redeemed orcish society, and now so much of it is being killed off.. where the fuck does it leave the orcs?

I think that blizzard following the loud crying from non orc/non human players is trying to give more space to the other races, but as always in the horde cases is bringing back the old crazy stuff killing off the only two orcs that would have grown into fine heroes Saurfang jr and Garrosh; in the alliance case they are trying to give more space to other leaders for now jaina and moira but i think that velen in future xpack will play a big role but in the end with scarce success.

[Arcanist]

Ask him why they can't hire someone competent to take care of the Alliance story. Give someone who gives a damn a shot rather than forcing people who obviously hate the Alliance, to write their story.

[Combatbutler]

A question to wider audience: As I am a new visitor on this board, can someone please enlighten me why people who associate themselves with Alliance are looked down at as if they were... some kind of a 'subhuman'? Is there... any undoing that... 'earned' this sort of treatment?

There is a very vocal minority of Alliance hard core players, that tend to whine all over the forums, as such many members of this board started putting them all in the same category.

Ask him why they can't hire someone competent to take care of the Alliance story. Give someone who gives a damn a shot rather than forcing people who obviously hate the Alliance, to write their story.

The Alliance story as a whole is not really broken, they are only poorly portrayed ingame.

[Trassk]

We'll have to wait and see, I suppose. But I really don't like where things are going.

me either. right now it feels like orcs, after spending years as the redeemed orcish race, have been blacklisted by the devs, and putting there place in the story in an even bleaker standard.

[KrazyK923]

Oh poor Orcs. Not going to have the spotlight in the lore for a while.

Draenei say hi.
Hell, the Alliance says hi.

[Arrashi]

Thinking about it orcs and alliance players are kinda same thing. Both thing that screaming as loud as possible is best way of getting what you want.

[Sky High]

Draenei say hi.
Hell, the Alliance says hi.

call me a fool, but calling it now. the Draenei get a small quest chain and the rest will be humans. well, the dwarves might get some love. Worgen? pfft. the night elves? meh, trees. gnomes? nothing? sounds about right.

[Talen]

Yes, I'm clearly strawmanning by saying there are people who post that the Horde should be destroyed... You asked for proof and I gave you a bunch of posts where people want the Horde to be destroyed.

Were this like reality...then yes. Destroyed. Broken up. Its leaders put on trial and/or executed. its cities razed and its population sent to the farthest cornbers of Azeroth.


And yes....the Forsaken utterly destroyed as an act of mercy, freeing their souls and ending their torment.

That can't happen in game so other solutions should be found. Others CAN be found.

EJL

[The Stormbringer]

LOVE YOU JESSE! <3

Thank you for linking this here!

[arcaneshot]

Ask him why they can't hire someone competent to take care of the Alliance story. Give someone who gives a damn a shot rather than forcing people who obviously hate the Alliance, to write their story.

Don't be silly. If they hated the Alliance they wouldn't have made them a playable faction to begin with and made everyone play on the Horde side.

The actual problem is you don't see the Alliance the same way they do, and their opinion is more important than yours. The fact they're reacting to some alarmist thoughts about Alliance like it's crazy isn't because they're "out of touch" with their fans, but rather the other way around. Once the audience decides they want to hold an author hostage it's over-- they either will accept being held hostage or they stop listening to you, and either way, the writing is forever tainted.

[Trassk]

Don't be silly. If they hated the Alliance they wouldn't have made them a playable faction to begin with and made everyone play on the Horde side.

The actual problem is you don't see the Alliance the same way they do, and their opinion is more important than yours. The fact they're reacting to some alarmist thoughts about Alliance like it's crazy isn't because they're "out of touch" with their fans, but rather the other way around. Once the audience decides they want to hold an author hostage it's over-- they either will accept being held hostage or they stop listening to you, and either way, the writing is forever tainted.

It really puts me in mind of my nephews. Both are wanting attention, and both get upset if one doesn't get all the alliance at once. Now I could put all attention into them at the same time, but then I'd be exhausted, so i choose my moments when to play with them, normally when the other ones distracted by something or asleep.

Blizzard are the adults here, and the fan base are the children.