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  1. #461
    So apart from the Tirisfal-thing only being a hook they created "just in case", he didn't really answer anything we didn't know (as if Saurfang showing up in SoO was news, voice files says hi). Should've waited for someone to make a transcript before wasting 26min :/
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  2. #462
    Scarab Lord Grubjuice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badhairday View Post
    So apart from the Tirisfal-thing only being a hook they created "just in case", he didn't really answer anything we didn't know (as if Saurfang showing up in SoO was news, voice files says hi). Should've waited for someone to make a transcript before wasting 26min :/
    well NOT SPOILING the game is technically his job

    my condolences on losing 26 minutes of your life.

  3. #463
    Quote Originally Posted by Badhairday View Post
    Should've waited for someone to make a transcript before wasting 26min :/
    The video has a transcript on it for the automatic captions (which can sometimes be hilariously wrong, but they will skip you to that part of the video).

    0:00 hello everybody today we have something very special for you
    0:03 you know him as the lead questions on for a while the Lord master
    0:07 the guy who patiently sat through the last please call more panel
    0:11 why I asked about a snake tail in a dungeon that no one knew anything about
    0:15 it pigtail guy
    0:17 that's right so how do Prada pictured everything
    0:20 was amazing I did brace itself
    0:24 of course i'm talking bout it cuz ac dave thanks for joining us
    0:27 okay that's a good to see you get home my goodness
    0:30 I have got a lot of questions for today so right off runaways
    0:33 my question is your at the police car yes you are you're our DirecTV
    0:38 front of millions of people yes you can have a chance to ask one question
    0:43 yes you ask about this pic you it's a tale
    0:47 it's a giant snake tail the middle the dungeon that has never been addressed
    0:50 ever anything it bugs me that's reported a
    0:54 brace yourself that's getting I love it of course we'll talk about
    0:59 missin 5.4 lower but if you if you will be at the end if we have time can ask
    1:03 you this random questions
    1:04 I love it excellent alright so
    1:08 right off the bat you guys said way back when that this expansion would
    1:12 and with the seeds or camara de Russia's death and
    1:15 this was a major moment it are you guys still satisfied but given that
    1:19 information so early
    1:20 likens he could easily build hype or deflated depending on how you look at
    1:24 that
    1:24 yeah I it was important for us because if you remember if you can think back a
    1:29 couple years ago we said we're doing Pandaren
    1:31 we knew that that us or will the work Afghans were really excited about the
    1:35 Pandaren it over as a race but
    1:36 a whole lotta people were like good pianos
    1:40 this is gonna be the comedy expansion this is gonna be the goofy expansion
    1:44 this is going to be silly and weird we were not interested in a silly
    1:47 when in fact we had intended for all kinds really cool epic staff to be
    1:51 happening in the suspension i mean
    1:53 there's pain dario there's the Pandaren there's also their own local problems
    1:57 and then there's the huge kinda global conflict that was happening around it
    2:00 that the whole line spur sports story
    2:02 and were like wow we really need to give people II concept
    2:06 up how big this expansion is going to be in everything is going to happen here
    2:09 and so we thought like let's
    2:11 let's just you let him know where it's going so they know that there's there's
    2:15 something huge is happening here
    2:16 I think that was the right call because then you started to see even from the
    2:19 very first quest you were doing in Jade Forest
    2:22 you saw the CD that being planted you saw it all building up to this
    2:26 insight think I think that was the right call maybe zobacz boiler a bite
    2:30 by I think you pick up people fired up then and I think people are so fired up
    2:34 about their 5-4 trailer that these it's fantastic
    2:38 I love it I love everything I love when you guys pull out all the stops for the
    2:41 trailers that's what about everything cinematic steam was going crazy with the
    2:44 highest
    2:45 her yeah it was fantastic tell the tell them all I said
    2:48 excellent work say Vanderpool Oak Park did
    2:52 I speaking of which begins epic in big
    2:56 I remember a a vividly remember this conversation um
    2:59 what my friends and I were talking with Chris Masson about the fact that
    3:03 %uh he had mentioned that this was going to be necessarily
    3:06 vol bore but the prelude to a war
    3:09 is that still the case or are we seeing the actual war between the Horde or
    3:13 alliance
    3:13 I would say this is the actual war cuz I mean after and I after the war chief is
    3:18 disposed that the tone of the allies and our relations what will change quite a
    3:22 bit
    3:22 so i i think this is really I'm he might've been referring to the fact that
    3:26 there's pain Daria the the box product which was about
    3:29 kinda being stranded up and Aria and learning what they're all about
    3:33 before you know in pat 51 the war came crashing back in a pan Daria schorr's
    3:38 and then you had to deal with it impact 51 52 53
    3:42 are all the way to where now we're actually seeing or chrome are so you
    3:45 might be made even referring to nap
    3:47 that were you know is building up over time but I mean this is really
    3:51 this is really where the rubber meets the road good a lot of people have been
    3:54 wondering about
    3:55 a a so-called promised Alliance this book moment
    3:58 where it was like you know everyone's very excited like all the lots about
    4:01 this michael
    4:02 and there's a lot of rumors floating around that at the end the Alliance a
    4:05 light
    4:06 you know what screw you guys will burn this place to the ground and
    4:09 I'm really curious it have we seen that moment is it coming
    4:13 is this something the last look for two cuz as much as I love the Horde
    4:16 I've lines friends who are consistently bugging me about the stuff and right so
    4:20 it's
    4:21 its its a so it's it's hard to say right the
    4:24 this expansion after their more there's been a string Alliance victories
    4:29 with a they they stopped garish in in 51 from doing what he was going to you
    4:34 by five Hui we had %uh purged gallery and Art Gallery and is now a a an
    4:39 alliance City
    4:40 I and then a who 53 we saw the Horde completely dissolving while the
    4:45 Alliance's
    4:46 is is coming together and in 54 the Alliance's
    4:49 marching in order mark deposing are the war chief ed allowing
    4:53 allowing the hordes to to name his successor they can't they can work with
    4:57 and so
    4:58 the ice is changing the world here I N so
    5:02 that's big I don't know how to make it any bigger without
    5:05 I'll alienating the entire hoard player base
    5:09 I think we've we've we're trying to walk the line where both Alliance and Horde
    5:12 or
    5:12 are seeing the siege for lamar something about excited about and I i think we've
    5:16 crafted
    5:17 a good story to a to do that and I'm not sure
    5:21 a sigh I you know if we were C Jing storm wind would that be more fist pump
    5:26 be a major seating or chrome are you were taking an enemy capital the killing
    5:29 the war chief I don't know what more
    5:32 diets can be doing it they're like hell year whatever I i don't i I don't know I
    5:37 I don't know what more
    5:38 the lines can be doing so you're saying is alive players
    5:42 chill out Stobbe pump some fifth as you kill
    5:45 every single working reporter Bihar practically
    5:48 that's actually a really good question um most
    5:52 orc's like the big head orc's are
    5:55 dead or missing at the end of this when you think about it
    5:58 are who is left to leave the or race %ah
    6:01 are you gonna see someone else show up that we haven't seen in a while wink
    6:04 wink nudge nudge
    6:05 I'll let see there's a there's a few cameos as you don't start spoiling their
    6:10 are in are 54 insituform are there's lotsa love and slots a little events
    6:15 between characters like others that there's a there's a sour frank et mieux
    6:18 you you see some yeah exactly you see subside little things going on I don't
    6:23 really talk about all the time cuz I think party the for the rate is seeing
    6:25 those things unfold the
    6:27 alliance will see some different events in the Lord will inna and you're good to
    6:31 go through there so
    6:32 I you know I hate iight at start spilling all that I'll say that I'm
    6:36 while k rush convinced a a lot of the or grace that this was with the Horde was
    6:41 really about
    6:42 there were a lot of works that I didn't didn't see it that way
    6:47 and you saw someone that it had 53 is your kindness limiting the revolution
    6:51 and moving forward
    6:52 II is so I yeah
    6:55 there are still are some powerful works that are gonna are they believe in sort
    6:59 of the idea of the horn is a
    7:01 as a family that that needs to be team up and move forward so
    7:06 alright brace yourself about to get down to some nit picky things that I'm very
    7:09 curious 300
    7:10 he we got are what do you think
    7:14 was the moments when gerashchenko came
    7:17 evil like is there a moment we're his gift to me he always was
    7:21 power-hungry and sort of just like a very bossy
    7:25 and just I'm an asshole but at least in Cataclysm he had that sort of
    7:29 honor system within him where when he for example he blew up the
    7:33 druid a tree and you look why what do you do when he threw that dude of the
    7:38 of the bridge yeah I i feel like aren't there some of you there
    7:41 do I totally wasted a man a bomb you
    7:44 like it was that the reason I mean come on I'll
    7:47 there is that I think I you know a lot of people say he's only like Turner
    7:51 a corner somewhere and I i really I don't see it that way necessarily I
    7:56 think if you start racing his line from
    7:59 the very sad little work that we found in AGR and
    8:02 our withdrawal planted the seeds pride in him and tried to say that
    8:06 his father you know wise for all his faults was great
    8:09 in a dorkus are great and that he could be great too he planted that seed
    8:13 and then we just saw that growing manifest in change over time so
    8:17 II you know he he became a military leader and and 1 victories in North ran
    8:22 the game a lot of confidence
    8:24 when he became more chief he then preceded the group get more and more
    8:28 aggressive has he got more and more followers
    8:31 are end and we saw that you know is beginning a Twilight Highlands when he's
    8:34 like
    8:34 arm we're gonna take these this Twilight hammer were ever to keep their ass
    8:38 sorry is that is a family-friendly on the street too late like 30 happen we're
    8:42 gonna kick their ass
    8:44 all in-house the industry i'd is broken road head masters right he was yelling
    8:48 that from that the bridges
    8:49 have is a plan as as you invaded my eyelids you know he's
    8:53 he's been getting are more and more power more more authority and
    8:56 I'm a also
    9:00 you know he's beginning to to feel like he's not changed
    9:03 a the Horde has been peeling away from him as
    9:07 as the they've come closer closer to you know what he sees as victory
    9:10 I'm so much so that I you know it by 53
    9:14 he thinks he can jettison the week part to the lord what he considers that we
    9:17 parts the Lord
    9:18 are the ones that don't have his conviction the don't see the orcas as a
    9:22 powerful people that should
    9:23 you know rule if not caldor than and probably Astra
    9:27 I is going to jettison them it so I think you know
    9:30 I its its it's more about are a line as opposed to an appropriate earned by Hum
    9:36 but he's definitely getting more and more hard-core I don't know if there's
    9:38 one moment I think we tried to plant those seeds early
    9:42 in in see them grow I'll so there there was gonna really answer the question
    9:47 exactly that's something I picked up on iight for the longest time
    9:51 I was convinced the head the best theory in the world
    9:54 about what happened to ross also I was so positive love this
    9:58 because you're right he he sort of changes when he's in North friend and
    10:01 you have that storyline unfold
    10:03 and I was convinced I was like guys don't you understand he died
    10:07 in Northrend I that's what I'm not receive the took over his body
    10:11 and they're starting to cause drama because thats the partly just got I was
    10:14 so convinced that this number when you're insane
    10:17 shrew and I was like don't you get at the end
    10:20 the reason why the NL's because in the end it's not gonna be him it's good to
    10:23 be wanted drug lords I was so convinced that sounds like welp
    10:26 I was wrong SCO a year ago
    10:30 is a bad apple since the beginning entitlement putting him in command only
    10:34 in
    10:34 is as accelerated his dissent to I'm
    10:38 battlements is that so %uh want things that I'm really curious about his many
    10:42 many many times you've
    10:43 you get a mention that the there so many characters
    10:47 in the Warcraft universe that you can't always include them in most the
    10:51 storylines has too many
    10:52 to include the mall would just not do justice the overall story
    10:56 so for example of Ronin people like YZ not fighting the black dragons the in
    11:00 the Cataclysm
    11:01 and US one look there's just we could have been a min and Yahoo
    11:05 %uh the question I had with this with 5.4
    11:08 is I love people wondering what also bought iskash seems to be
    11:12 to a cover major problem with care of and is just showing up now
    11:16 and so people are wondering like what is that this is the exact same situation
    11:19 like book
    11:20 there's just too much going on we could have veteran yeah there was a
    11:23 you know i i kinda I I had the idea that may be in in pet 53 or 54 you could we
    11:28 could do the quest for you went through under city and and clean out the car
    11:31 crime that kinda thing I i
    11:33 that I'm sure that that happened it's just we never had the time to to
    11:36 question get you over there
    11:38 in the in the big car cup and Aria are her story
    11:41 and the I'm dead I didn't really it didn't
    11:45 there was in a really good place for it it didn't didn't fit right in are not
    11:48 sure to get in somewhere so
    11:50 you know we can have to pick our battles so it takes it takes time it takes pace
    11:54 it takes
    11:55 you know I attention are to prepare a character in spotlight cell
    11:59 RJ to problem or did nothing from
    12:02 gosh again she did a little bit in North perhaps I should say that but like after
    12:05 work Rev three
    12:06 we really didn't have much Gina in the game until I
    12:10 a few cameos in North read that was important are and then there is nothing
    12:14 going on sir really
    12:15 we want to spend time with Jane and its expansion and I think we did we made
    12:18 time for your for some
    12:19 Sanjana time on worth Mr I don't think most people could even name the leader
    12:24 the blood elves
    12:24 up before before companies patches so we said hey let's take some time because
    12:28 there's there's
    12:30 if the court is dissolving there's a really interesting character there was
    12:33 really caught in the middle of it
    12:34 in a few turns large tomorrow against the war chief
    12:37 that says a lot about what is happening with the hordes so week we knew we could
    12:41 work his story and
    12:42 and that took time that took arm are a lot of development
    12:45 in 51 by development should be character development areas as possible when or
    12:50 maybe development
    12:51 I'm you know if we it will just take some space to
    12:54 to give love them are some room to breathe and they do something cool and
    12:58 in 52 so you know we never really had the opportunity to create that space for
    13:02 some honest it really
    13:03 if it in there so I he also has a couple cameos in 54 so she's not completely out
    13:08 of the picture but they aren't
    13:10 there's lotsa there's like two characters like the factions like the
    13:13 stories we'll get to tell
    13:14 every single patty so I
    13:18 yeah there you go so rather than turning from garages toward
    13:22 let's talk publicly about people who are joining its why
    13:25 the klaxon joining the horse so are the crack see if you actually played through
    13:30 their faction to exalted
    13:32 god bless you if you played through their fax it to exalted
    13:35 I you got to see a little bit about their background and I
    13:38 yes sir I G the the old god that was killed in Pandaria
    13:42 when the Titans came I they worshipped this all God
    13:46 are in probably assumed he was gone gone gone
    13:50 are but when care I fines the heart of the old guard when he finds the hardness
    13:54 Irish
    13:54 in patch 53 I am brings it back to order Mar
    13:58 this in our object above worship for them and the promise that may be gay
    14:02 rights is bringing their got back to life
    14:04 are all bets are off in fact may even say is budget 50 they set up for our if
    14:09 they're all guys ever return we're gonna be a different sides
    14:12 it so you have to imagine they probably came with the heart
    14:15 with the the way and would give their lives for it
    14:19 and I of certainly that's what you see on
    14:22 for the gameplay perspective we also love the idea that we introduce these
    14:25 characters
    14:26 you get to know their special abilities from are from
    14:29 all the Pops you get in that thread ways questing areas
    14:32 are and then their raid bosses that you have to have to fight
    14:36 think in general we did a much better job this expansion trying to come up
    14:39 with raid bosses
    14:41 that you actually had a connection to our relation to you and that's certainly
    14:43 the case with the taxi
    14:45 so they really have no they don't see a connection between like
    14:49 for example the shawl fear and
    14:52 their old got like they don't associate those two what the
    14:56 the connection is me that the shop fierce order the aimless breath
    14:59 above of the old God right that causes causes trouble
    15:04 are it's not actually there God on
    15:07 and a is so tight sets to them it separate I mean if they're
    15:11 if their God would come back then a
    15:14 a rate it's a different different story than the
    15:17 it's not about the shiny more okay a yet says that's certainly how how they view
    15:21 it
    15:22 it what's interesting is probably and you know we are in this certainly get
    15:25 they have a chance to really delve into this but how they view care I should be
    15:27 to them the Craxi
    15:29 is profit just like the police another tool they're using like our this
    15:32 this this funny guy with the task I'm sure there's gonna bring are gone
    15:36 our guy back to life so we'll use him I
    15:39 you know will follow him I don't think II they're certainly not waving banners
    15:42 yelling for the Horde
    15:43 they're there for their God already ready a referendum questions
    15:47 I know I don't want to jump into it ready for the connected
    15:51 alright speak evil gods move which came first
    15:54 all gods are Titans art I I can't answer that without
    15:59 a there's there's an answer to that
    16:02 in its it's a very spot where we see it soon in and some form in the decor in a
    16:06 book
    16:07 iight I don't think so there are he adds about it
    16:10 everywhere because I lot of people a lot of
    16:14 when you go online to agreed stuff it's always contradictory cuz a lot on Flickr
    16:18 the Titans came
    16:19 as of the first got some insight well know that the times came first
    16:22 it's like a chicken egg thing idea it's very in a key
    16:26 arm but there is there is an answer a
    16:29 and in all those all those against then make sense in the context an answer and
    16:32 I love
    16:33 I love the tinfoil hat theory is that they come out of the apt
    16:36 as people try and figure out why exactly events happened at the way they happened
    16:41 and what order the events happened to him
    16:43 is very cool and I wish I could answer it but that would be I kinda sucky way
    16:47 to find out certain major pillar a while lower
    16:49 hit it off webcast are regarded alright I got a little better be at the game
    16:54 yeah
    16:56 okay 0 it's a good question that that's a good question champion that some lie I
    17:00 is excite me the people are asking that
    17:03 cuz that's that something's happening in the bar okay what about dollar on where
    17:07 they go
    17:08 other so but one thing we've we haven't really had time showing game
    17:13 I you know when you play through the the level 1 360 staff you sort of playing in
    17:18 a post cataclysm has Arron
    17:20 are when you go to atlanta you really going back to hell and as as it was when
    17:24 we first me the allen campaign
    17:26 and certainly when you go to North friend you're going back to you you know
    17:29 before garage was work if you do at the North brand campaign
    17:32 it's so I'll those are kind of like average the time instances
    17:36 and maybe we'll we'll kinda more expressly spell that out in the games
    17:39 that you really feel like you're traveling back to North read the five
    17:42 years ago
    17:43 when you do it so when you go to Northrend when you go to gallery and in
    17:47 North Rand
    17:48 that's what our that's where dollar and wise in North friend
    17:51 while our this was not different what's happening there where is it today
    17:56 had a mystery what's nice is it the city on the move I'm
    17:59 I actually I in in my opinion it was
    18:03 a steaming toward or chrome are I actually we had talked about having it
    18:08 a looming over or grandma right you know shooting down Medical Board said well
    18:12 why birds are circling at there's this big aerial combat above you
    18:15 and then for many reasons are mostly technical
    18:18 like it you know we just take a city and put up with Syrian hope that the key
    18:22 performs well ahead
    18:23 probably it probably would are mostly technical reasons but also artistic
    18:27 reasons we thought that made the whole encounter feel very sci fi
    18:31 well as opposed to you know siege in a city and its corks you're you're kicking
    18:34 their butts
    18:35 and so are we decided not to have dollar and floating above their
    18:40 even though I thought that wouldn't really call way for J to come back our
    18:43 you know pay-back time bitches am
    18:46 family-friendly around right yaa so
    18:49 you know if if you do if you'd like to imagine that it's a
    18:53 busy pub arting build water harbor that would be kinda fun
    18:57 I think it would be pretty neat I know I know a lot of Alliance players who like
    19:02 there is a lot of space in storm one now for
    19:05 a giant floating city I just replace the park just landed
    19:08 wetland that pay /url that is pretty awesome
    19:11 although that would I'm would it would effectively combine to align cities in
    19:16 the white a-line city and maybe it would be school
    19:18 just the Super aligned City supercity
    19:21 yeah %uh speak if super cities
    19:25 me the the narrow and they're wonderful
    19:28 supercity way out out plans are we ever gonna see those guys again
    19:33 I the Nauru are are kind of like a
    19:36 light in car tinted and they're a very important
    19:40 a species in the grand scheme of things so
    19:43 you will certainly see you then are you again at some point and speaking speak
    19:47 in an hour their best buddies the drain I know a lot of people like
    19:49 you to this whole thing with that with the blood elves and you got their story
    19:52 go on
    19:53 arena see more during a story you had retired do
    19:57 after an IR do absolutely so I i will say
    20:01 we're gonna we're gonna have some some very nice stuff at some point
    20:05 awesome okay yeah yeah i i just I love high level is generously
    20:08 okay what am I gonna ask not
    20:11 will we ever see the dragon aspects again or any are they
    20:14 relegated to expanded universe stuff like books and comics
    20:18 are so the dragon aspects but we figured we could give them a rest after
    20:21 Cataclysm cuz he's put a lot of time with the track aspect
    20:24 I'm but are there K you know if you think about their position right now
    20:28 it's kinda
    20:29 I a it must be sorta mind-blowing after you know fifty thousand years
    20:33 up having you near absolute power within their domain
    20:36 now their mortal and now they have all the issues that that mortals have
    20:40 I'm in n they gonna wrestle with that and they still have their jobs to do but
    20:44 now they can either help or the other mortals
    20:46 I so well we'll probably see more of that will probably see more
    20:51 above of the Dragon flights I
    20:54 wrestling with how they are how they're going to do their jobs
    20:57 and how much they need your help and so you're definitely track for the Dragons
    21:00 more
    21:00 in the future okay %uh then there's a question I'm convinced
    21:05 you're asked a million times so feel free if you have a can't answer to this
    21:08 one
    21:08 feel free to give it but a is is there anything below tears fall
    21:13 and should we be worried is something coming or is that a nothing because that
    21:17 is the
    21:17 that has been a rumor since way back in the day
    21:21 okay well so did for the answer to that this this is the dirty secret
    21:26 sometimes there just because they're there that we can do something with
    21:29 later if we have a really good idea for it
    21:32 and in I I would say that tears fall is one of those things that's like
    21:36 name there's a potential your explanations for that but we haven't
    21:41 said what they are yet because maybe wanna do something with that
    21:43 at some point if we do that we can't always explain it in in
    21:47 do something really awesome for row gameplay wise with it
    21:51 but until then there's no point I can swing it because that make
    21:54 put back as in a corner like what we want to do something really cool there
    21:57 that we've all we can't because we said X
    22:00 I'm a so so there's a there's a hook there
    22:04 for potentially awesome awesome thing is
    22:07 in the future but their isn't with in the case tears fall there isn't are
    22:11 a definitive answer okay cool are you not a question
    22:15 this is just a minute throughout some names give a simple yes or no if we'll
    22:20 see them anytime in the future
    22:21 alright so that's that's not fun I
    22:24 is it would be fun I'll the home alright buddy I we got
    22:29 galley wakes not fun no I
    22:32 I let's see galley weeks iight don't have an answer for galitsin
    22:37 okay wrecks are Hall I love regs are
    22:41 so are we we really want to have an event we ran out tonight want to have an
    22:45 event
    22:45 in Battlefield parents it was sort of the defend wrecks are thing wrecks are
    22:48 just
    22:49 said the flag in the ground its how many waves have core crime can you kill with
    22:53 Rockstar before you gotta pay off
    22:55 we really want to have that we just we just ran outta time that was the only
    22:58 reason we didn't get wrecks are in there
    23:00 II it would have been it would've been great to get wrecked sorry in
    23:03 in you know curr so we love that character
    23:07 II really do want to do more with rocks are in the future
    23:10 alright what about Mid Am the day n mean
    23:14 what do you think about me and should be worth began arm yes
    23:19 I I think that shouldn't have done it is tricky
    23:23 indoor because we don't have up
    23:26 that many cross breeds in the univers and it opens up all kinds of questions
    23:30 cell I don't know for do tons times as many
    23:33 gonna make a recommendation yeah you need it some type of love
    23:38 it event make it like a buddy comedy if you can wrecks are
    23:42 up Corona a damn altogether all best buddies
    23:45 that's a whole Wow and now that there's
    23:49 I don't know you have to yup there's a buddy comedy for you yep given poor
    23:52 meter something and that's what's litter the queso like never have to go to a
    23:55 party
    23:56 are what about %ah mad at the group totem
    23:59 I the cream totem story arm weeee
    24:03 had some pictures for what we do with a grim totem and we did not get again it's
    24:07 like what we spend our time on we didn't have time to really fleshed out that
    24:10 story I'd like to revisit that one cuz I think that needs
    24:13 that we need another chapter that to find out what's up with Magna
    24:16 in pain and the the new horrid after pat 54
    24:20 and I it carry their foreign I don't know I can try I can't say when we have
    24:24 time to read is that we gotta can make sure it fits in with what we're doing
    24:28 all rights and then the last two are the ones that I'm sure you get a lot
    24:31 %ah will we see below for again well love
    24:35 un you it would week we have to when we're ready to revisit the
    24:39 a that poor archive the story
    24:43 then obviously bolívar be involved but I think it might be
    24:47 might be a while okay I'm in the final two the two
    24:50 I'm sure you get asked all the time malaria
    24:53 Inter Milan statehood so awesome cuz I knew what the last two would-be
    24:57 of course ever I'm sure you have it all the time but I have to ask again
    25:01 I yeah it we would need we would need a
    25:04 out a plausible story to get them
    25:08 get them get back to them I in so whenever we have that story cooking that
    25:13 definitely wanna see them again cuz thats
    25:15 a particle or that's just been stood waiting
    25:18 out there out there in then in the nether
    25:22 of age yeah very core can wait i cant wait thank you so much for taking the
    25:26 time to talk to me this is but both blast
    25:28 a sweet yeah we can I would use again sometime awesome thank you Dave
    25:32 thank you very much have a good one you too
    25:36 gonna call this one all future
    25:40 your welcome and I we r you John were gonna take you
    25:44 drop never gonna get so what do top everyone talks like a from the fuel stop
    25:49 commando
    25:53 job
    25:55 job
    25:56 few I'll long Gordon
    26:06 from nothing you
    26:10 number and i cant John
    26:13 1
    26:13 from
    Last edited by Aquamonkey; 2013-08-27 at 04:42 PM.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    I'm determined to someday make Med'an awesome. (MickyNeilson)

    ´So.. sorry to bring this up but..you know that .."thing" (Med'an).. is that "thing" cannon still?
    ...as much have some have wished otherwise, yes. (Loreology)

  4. #464
    Quote Originally Posted by Buu View Post
    Kosak made everything so MoP is an Alliance Biased expansion. ... you got your alliance developers writing an entire expansion, and you never acknowledged they exist.
    ^THIS is what some Blizzard apologists and "Faction favoritism cycle"-believers actually believe.

    "Mists of Pandaria" - Alliance-biased expansion. So I guess the upcoming expansion is Horde-biased, then?
    I withdrew from Alliance during the initial introduction of Cataclysm. I have no reason to return. I only ask for my ability to give a flying fuck being taken away.

  5. #465
    Maybe I've missed something this expansion but what part of the main story-line, garosh going insane, has the alliance missed? I don't remember anything about a dark heart or really anything in game about voljins revolt. Most of what I know about either of those has come from third party sources. I know we destroyed some sort of bell in 5.2 but I don't remember us doing anything past that point. Battlefield barrens was basically show up and kill stuff I was never given any context for it. Like I said maybe I just missed it.
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  6. #466
    Quote Originally Posted by theturn View Post
    Maybe I've missed something this expansion but what part of the main story-line, garosh going insane, has the alliance missed? I don't remember anything about a dark heart or really anything in game about voljins revolt. Most of what I know about either of those has come from third party sources. I know we destroyed some sort of bell in 5.2 but I don't remember us doing anything past that point. Battlefield barrens was basically show up and kill stuff I was never given any context for it. Like I said maybe I just missed it.
    Dark Heart is a scenario.
    Voljin's revolt is in 5.3 (almost gets assassinated in a 5.2 scenario).
    Destroying the Bell and seeing how crazy Garrosh has become was the end of the questline in 5.1.
    5.4 trailer shows more about the Dark Heart and even more about how bad Garrosh is.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    I'm determined to someday make Med'an awesome. (MickyNeilson)

    ´So.. sorry to bring this up but..you know that .."thing" (Med'an).. is that "thing" cannon still?
    ...as much have some have wished otherwise, yes. (Loreology)

  7. #467
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreknar20 View Post
    Replacing internal oppression with outside oppression, sounds delightful
    Do we get Siege/Liberation of Ogrimmar round 2?
    Just so its clear by occupation I mean just a representative force not an army. But yeah you could have a plot line throughout the next expansion of having the forces removed by either force or diplomacy. Would make for an intriguing plot line while also giving the alliance something to point to as a victory.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    Dark Heart is a scenario.
    Voljin's revolt is in 5.3 (almost gets assassinated in a 5.2 scenario).
    So where those horde exclusive or did I forget/not do those events?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    The problem with implementing it is how could Blizzard possibly include Alliance players? They can't really have Alliance players questing in Orgrimmar. And it's too diplomacy/political drama oriented to be a scenario.
    That's why you need creative story tellers who are interested in telling a good story for both sides. A good story can be told here for the alliance you just need a little creativity.
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  8. #468
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    Which if those things happened, would destroy the Horde faction in-game. You can't have a 2-faction game where 1 side is conquered and subservient to the other.
    Oh please. There's a middle ground between "getting nothing despite being declared the winner" and "destroying the other faction". It was fine for some reason for the Horde to steamroll the Alliance during Cataclysm. Nobody cared about "Gameplay reasons" when Alliance bases were leveled left and right, nobody cared when it happened to Theramore either because there's phasing.
    Yet the Alliance can't regain ANY territory, the Alliance can't destroy ANY Horde base not even as unimportant as Stonard or Hammerfall and the Alliance just forgives and forgets the Troll and Forsaken involvement in the whole conflict the moment Garrosh is dead. This is horrible story telling and absolutely unsatisfactory. And the cheap excuse of "Gameplay reasons" and "fairness" doesn't matter when during Cataclysm it was all about "WAR ISN'T FAIR! LOKTAR OGAR!".

    Quote Originally Posted by AlarStormbringer View Post
    Coming from an Alliance player, you've completely missed what's going on with the Alliance working together with Vol'jin's Revolutionaries.
    Working with the revolutionaries makes no sense whatsoever. They are just as much the enemies of the Alliance as Garrosh is. Hell Sylvannas is quite possible a worse enemy to the Alliance than Garrosh and she will remain the elephant in the room nobody is willing to talk about. Trolls and Tauren were cheering and celebrating when Theramore was blown up.
    The only reason the other Horde races turned onto Garrosh was because he was a meanie to them too. Not because of any concern for his warmongering, his war of genocide or expansionist mindset, no that was wholeheartely supported by about anyone except for maybe Baine.

    Saying the Alliance needs to team up with the revolutionaries makes no sense either. We were previously told that the Alliance was supposed to be the "unified juggernaught" while the Horde was "broken and shattered". So how come that both parts of the Horde on their own are suddenly as strong or stronger than the entirety of the Alliance? This makes the Alliance look weak, emasculated and bad and apparently no dev/lore writer cares.
    Also the Horde is still the more unified faction even after the rebellion because except for Orcs all the Horde leaders and races are now even more tightly united than before. While on the Alliance side the Draenei have all but gone neutral and withdrawn from the Alliance and the Worgen aren't even mentioned anymore, better forget about them as soon as possible after the trainwreck that Cataclysm was right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Buu View Post
    Kosak made everything so MoP is an Alliance Biased expansion. But as he pointed in the interview, it became clear that is not lore or anything that drive Alliance complaints. It's the will of have Horde alienated from content, as it was before they refurbished Azeroth. GG in pissing the people you asked for during the entire Cataclysm expansion; you got your alliance developers writing an entire expansion, and you never acknowledged they exist. You keep looking at Metzen when he isn't even there, but at D3:RoS.
    Wat? MoP stopped having an actual Alliance part in the story at 5.3. Since then it's all about the Horde rebellion and the Alliance helping out somewhere on the side. The Alliance for the most part got nothing worthwhile, about every single last damn thing was mirrored. If getting EQUAL time and again being a foil to the Horde is Alliance bias then I really don't know what the hell would be "equal" to you.
    And that's not even factoring in that most of the story so far was about the belfs. Even the High elfs serve no other purpose than to advance the Belf story line. They aren't a playable race of the Alliance and never will be. Even the whole Dalaran thing was for the most part developement for the Belfs and held as morally grey as possible to depic neither side as "evil" which hurts Jainas depiction in the whole mess a lot.

    Quote Originally Posted by theturn View Post
    JSo where those horde exclusive or did I forget/not do those events?
    Yes, they were. You get to do the same scenarios the Alliance does. Then you move on to meet up with Thrall and the gang. You're reunited with Chen who's now all but Horde again and Voljin who as usually talks a lot. Korkron and Goblin troops assault the Darkspear and you drive them back in a big epic battle.
    Thrall and the gang shout some stuff and you go on to liberate razor hill with an entire army. After that you get the same stuff the Alliance does.

    Well it seems like there was supposed to be some Alliance part of the whole thing that was supposed to developed the Alliance intel agency and have you do equally awesome stuff but it was cut so you just gotta imagine it. Similar to how they WANTED to do show Dalaran above Orgrimmar during the siege bombarding the city, which was also cut.
    It's the thought that counts though, right? So you just gotta IMAGINE all the things the Alliance gets and has done, just IMAGINE how awesome it would've been if they had time, sadly they didn't.
    Last edited by Deleth; 2013-08-27 at 05:19 PM.

  9. #469
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    Quote Originally Posted by theturn View Post
    So where those horde exclusive or did I forget/not do those events?
    .
    Dagger in the Dark was faction exclusive at first, they changed that
    Dark Heart of Pandaria is avialble to all. It was actually required to go onto the Barrens

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by theturn View Post
    Just so its clear by occupation I mean just a representative force not an army..
    your occupying a hostile/enemy city

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by theturn View Post
    removed by either force or diplomacy.
    Likewise, Siege/Liberation of Ogrimmar round two?
    And such a thing wont be removed through diplomacy, unless its done in a novel, its provides zero gameplay

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Deleth View Post
    And the cheap excuse of "Gameplay reasons"
    Thats hardly a 'cheap' reason
    Care to explain how such a revamp again provides any valid gameplay to WoW? And these are also low level zones
    We have faced trials and danger, threats to our world and our way of life. And yet, we persevere. We are the Horde. We will not let anything break our spirits!"

  10. #470
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreknar20 View Post
    Dagger in the Dark was faction exclusive at first, they changed that
    Dark Heart of Pandaria is avialble to all. It was actually required to go onto the Barrens
    I'll have to play those and refresh my memory

    Likewise, Siege/Liberation of Ogrimmar round two?
    And such a thing wont be removed through diplomacy, unless its done in a novel, its provides zero gameplay
    It can provide gameplay through a scenario, could be an optional one with no rewards besides story. Or you could have dailies/something in a phased orgrimmar for the alliance that tells the story of transferring full ownership back to the horde throughout the expansion. Really I have almost no creativity and I can come up with something. Someone whos job is to be creative could find a way to make it work.

    Really all you have to look at for ideas is history. Hell you can use present history as an example.
    Last edited by theturn; 2013-08-27 at 05:34 PM.
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  11. #471
    Quote Originally Posted by Deleth View Post
    Oh please. There's a middle ground between "getting nothing despite being declared the winner" and "destroying the other faction".
    Yes, there is a middle ground. I was referring to people who were so far to the one side that it would break the game (if you bothered to look at the links/quote).

    Quote Originally Posted by Deleth View Post
    It was fine for some reason for the Horde to steamroll the Alliance during Cataclysm. Nobody cared about "Gameplay reasons" when Alliance bases were leveled left and right, nobody cared when it happened to Theramore either because there's phasing. Yet the Alliance can't regain ANY territory, the Alliance can't destroy ANY Horde base not even as unimportant as Stonard or Hammerfall and the Alliance just forgives and forgets the Troll and Forsaken involvement in the whole conflict the moment Garrosh is dead. This is horrible story telling and absolutely unsatisfactory. And the cheap excuse of "Gameplay reasons" and "fairness" doesn't matter when during Cataclysm it was all about "WAR ISN'T FAIR! LOKTAR OGAR!".
    Alliance losing shit was the point. Garrosh kicked the war into high gear and was on a path of conquest. And Alliance never lost anything that was gamebreaking. They still had all their leveling zones and quests. And I agree that they should have done some phasing to reflect the outcome of the quests done in Stonard, etc. Crushing the Horde capital with a total victory for the Alliance and holding it hostage will break the game.

    Yes, in a perfect world where Blizzard has infinite resouces, they should go back and redo all the Cata zones to reflect the MoP outcomes (and Cata outcomes). But this isn't a perfect world, Blizzard doesn't have infinite resources. They aren't going to go back and revamp zones from an old expansion that are stuck in the timeperiod of that expansion.

    Why are people all of a sudden so much about this now? I don't remember people crying about TBC zones not changing to reflect Vashj, Kael, Illidan, or KJ being defeated. I don't remember people crying about Northrend not changing to reflect Arthas dying. I don't remember people crying about Azeroth zones not changing to reflect DW dying. So why all of a sudden are people so worked up about not having Azeroth zones STUCK IN CATA TIMEPERIOD not changing to reflect Garrosh dying in MoP?
    Last edited by Aquamonkey; 2013-08-27 at 05:46 PM.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    I'm determined to someday make Med'an awesome. (MickyNeilson)

    ´So.. sorry to bring this up but..you know that .."thing" (Med'an).. is that "thing" cannon still?
    ...as much have some have wished otherwise, yes. (Loreology)

  12. #472
    I do love how the automatic captions translated Rexar as Rockstar.

  13. #473
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    Yes, there is a middle ground. I was referring to people who were so far to the one side that it would break the game (if you bothered to look at the links/quote).
    Your definition of middle ground is drastically different from mine. From my point of view the Alliance being present at all and getting minor attention from the devs is pretty far from Alliance bias.

    Alliance losing shit was the point. Garrosh kicked the war into high gear and was on a path of conquest. And Alliance never lost anything that was gamebreaking. They still had all their leveling zones and quests. And I agree that they should have done some phasing to reflect the outcome of the quests done in Stonard, etc.
    The point is, the Alliance was supposed to regain things too. They were supposed to finally get invested into the war, pull together, become the unified juggernaugt and actually retake lands during Cataclysm already. Nothing of this ever happened, nothing of this will ever happen.
    And it's not just the Horde the Alliance is losing against. They are losing against the Defias (Sentinel Hill burned to the ground with nothing one can do), the Twillight Hammer (Menethil destroyed and taken by them, never retaken) and about everyone else they are fighting. It's like ending the Lotr "The Return of the King" right when the Orcs knock down the gates of Gondor and pour in before the Rohirrim arrive with the words "and that's it".

    And no, the Alliance lost quite a bit of stuff when there was no real reason to do so, hell some of these things were outright knee jerks by the devs with no purpose whatsoever. And Stonard IS shown exactly as it happened in game. Basically the Alliance beat the Horde, walked into Stonard, beat up some soldiers and then just walked away.

    Crushing the Horde capital with a total victory for the Alliance and holding it hostage will break the game. Yes, in a perfect world where Blizzard has infinite resouces, they should go back and redo all the Cata zones to reflect the MoP outcomes (and Cata outcomes). But this isn't a perfect world, Blizzard doesn't have infinite resources. They aren't going to go back and revamp zones from an old expansion that are stuck in the timeperiod of that expansion.
    Then they shouldn't have screwed over the Alliance to this extent to begin with. Then they shouldn't have destroyed Theramore to begin with just so there could be a crappy book and a horrible scenario. If they don't want to or can't see things through they shouldn't start them.
    And the excuse they have no resources isn't a good one either, since they have no problems to add loads and loads of short lived NPCs to Orgrimmar and script things such as the voljin loyalist. Yet they can't add any NPCs to Gilneas.

    The worst part is, no Alliance victory is even acknowledged in lore. Basically the outcome of Cataclysm is the outcome of the war. The Horde gets to keep Hillsbrad Foothills, 2/3 of Ashenvale, Azshara, Stonetalon Mountains, Andorhal and so on and on. Not even the pre Cataclysm war borders are restored in lore for crying out loud.

    Why are people all of a sudden so much about this now? I don't remember people crying about TBC zones not changing to reflect Vashj, Kael, Illidan, or KJ being defeated. I don't remember people crying about Northrend not changing to reflect Arthas dying. I don't remember people crying about Azeroth zones not changing to reflect DW dying. So why all of a sudden are people so worked up about not having Azeroth zones STUCK IN CATA TIMEPERIOD not changing to reflect Garrosh dying in MoP?
    Because this time it's the two factions being involved. The other times we had a non player faction as enemy. This time the one hurt was one of the two player factions and it was hurt quite badly in story and lore. I leveled my only Alliance char after the Cataclysm revamp and the story line is atrocious, depressing and infuriating at best. It makes no fun to play it at all.
    They should've known that doing this would be a horrible idea, hell they got told during Cataclysm beta already. Their response back then was that they would FOLLOW UP on it. They said they would change the world to show how the conflict turns out and changes, they didn't.
    They got told that destroying Theramore was a horrible idea, they told us that there would be "retribution" for it and "stuff to make up for it", there isn't. Even in lore there isn't anything to indicate an Alliance victory, the borders are going to stay the ones Sylvannas and Garrosh set during Cataclysm.

    Remember how we had long and drawn out discussions about the Dalaran purge, how it was morally ambigious even though justified and how Jainas constant 180° turns were harming her character? THAT was supposed to make up for everything that happened in Cataclysm and Theramore. That was supposed to be the Alliance great's victory. Trying to take on the Sunreavers, letting most of their fighting force and their leader escape like idiots and only being able to seize their civilian supporters.
    Hell during 5.2 when playing both sides I was screaming at Lorthermar and Jaina duke it out. Instead they decided to make Garrosh the scapegoat. This isn't what feels right, it only makes me angry, very angry.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by theturn View Post
    Maybe I've missed something this expansion but what part of the main story-line, garosh going insane, has the alliance missed? I don't remember anything about a dark heart or really anything in game about voljins revolt. Most of what I know about either of those has come from third party sources. I know we destroyed some sort of bell in 5.2 but I don't remember us doing anything past that point. Battlefield barrens was basically show up and kill stuff I was never given any context for it. Like I said maybe I just missed it.
    It's mostly Horde story. A lot of it comes from the Quests such as during 5.1,5.2 and some scenarios. The scenarios if they are not quest related, which many are, are available to you now aswell.
    Last edited by Deleth; 2013-08-27 at 05:57 PM.

  14. #474
    Quote Originally Posted by Deleth View Post
    Remember how we had long and drawn out discussions about the Dalaran purge, how it was morally ambigious even though justified and how Jainas constant 180° turns were harming her character? THAT was supposed to make up for everything that happened in Cataclysm and Theramore. That was supposed to be the Alliance great's victory. Trying to take on the Sunreavers, letting most of their fighting force and their leader escape like idiots and only being able to seize their civilian supporters.
    Hell during 5.2 when playing both sides I was screaming at Lorthermar and Jaina duke it out. Instead they decided to make Garrosh the scapegoat. This isn't what feels right, it only makes me angry, very angry.
    This illustrates the bias. People highlight Alliance losses as depicted from the Horde quests (Dalaran, Azshara), but completely dismiss Alliance victories from the Horde quests (Gilneas, Silverpine). Neither of those is presented to people playing the Alliance side, but people jump all over Sunreavers being rescued and escaping. What was presented in the Alliance side of Dalaran was a victory.
    Last edited by Aquamonkey; 2013-08-27 at 06:31 PM.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    I'm determined to someday make Med'an awesome. (MickyNeilson)

    ´So.. sorry to bring this up but..you know that .."thing" (Med'an).. is that "thing" cannon still?
    ...as much have some have wished otherwise, yes. (Loreology)

  15. #475
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    This illustrates the bias. People highlight Alliance losses as depicted from the Horde quests (Dalaran, Azshara), but completely dismiss Alliance victories from the Horde quests (Gilneas, Silverpine). Neither of those is presented to people playing the Alliance side, but people jump all over Sunreavers being rescued and escaping. What was presented in the Alliance side of Dalaran was a victory.
    Oh please. You yourself were crying foul because of Dalaran just recently so stop trying to make it out as some kind of shining victory. Dalaran was to begin with a neutral city, not a Horde one. The faction you fight back then was supposedly neutral aswell (altough they on large worked for Garrosh) and you don't even get to properly fight them.
    Basically all the high ranked guys such as Aethas are already dealt with or escaped already, alongside most of their actual fighting force. You get to fight their supporters from the general populace who violently resist arrest. How exactly is this a great victory for the Alliance, how exactly did it hurt the Horde, what exactly did the Alliance achieved seeing how Aethas and some others managed to get away anyway? It was a necessary evil, not some heroic deed or something that was a true victory at the expense of the Horde.
    And Blizzard on purpose depicted the whole story as morally grey as they possible could, something that was absolutely unneeded and idiotic in this case. The worst part though is when Varian comes over and starts ranting at the player and Jaina for what they've done because it ended his negotiations with the Blood Elfs. There was never a true chance for these negotiations to succeed because of gameplay, but somehow Blizzard still felt it necessary to add it just to make Jaina look like an idiot and kill any kind of possible joy one might've derived from the Purge of Dalaran.

    As for Gilneas and Silverpine, neither of these are a lasting victory so I don't get what you're talking about. Yes the Worgen do hurt Sylvannas and the Forsaken for a time, but are eventually sent back like beaten dogs to Gilneas to hide there with the 7th legion. The same 7th legion who was wiped out in Theramore and thus must've been drawn away from Gilneas. This means that currently Gilneas is either scarcely defended and rife for the plucking or under Horde control.
    Which is completly ignoring the fact that giving half of the little Worgen story there is to the Horde was sickening and disgusting to no end.

    The one biased here is you, a great deal so.

  16. #476
    Quote Originally Posted by Deleth View Post
    Oh please. You yourself were crying foul because of Dalaran just recently so stop trying to make it out as some kind of shining victory. Dalaran was to begin with a neutral city, not a Horde one. The faction you fight back then was supposedly neutral aswell (altough they on large worked for Garrosh) and you don't even get to properly fight them.
    Basically all the high ranked guys such as Aethas are already dealt with or escaped already, alongside most of their actual fighting force. You get to fight their supporters from the general populace who violently resist arrest. How exactly is this a great victory for the Alliance, how exactly did it hurt the Horde, what exactly did the Alliance achieved seeing how Aethas and some others managed to get away anyway? It was a necessary evil, not some heroic deed or something that was a true victory at the expense of the Horde.
    Aethas and others escaping after killing their guards was not part of the Alliance game-play. Aethas just shows up in IoT.

    Quote Originally Posted by Deleth View Post
    And Blizzard on purpose depicted the whole story as morally grey as they possible could, something that was absolutely unneeded and idiotic in this case. The worst part though is when Varian comes over and starts ranting at the player and Jaina for what they've done because it ended his negotiations with the Blood Elfs. There was never a true chance for these negotiations to succeed because of gameplay, but somehow Blizzard still felt it necessary to add it just to make Jaina look like an idiot and kill any kind of possible joy one might've derived from the Purge of Dalaran.
    Varian even flat out tells you that it was a victory for the Alliance. There was nothing morally gray about Varian being mad at Jaina for screwing up peace talks. He says he can't fault her for her actions.

    The morally gray part all comes from the Horde side of the quest so they'd have a justification to go in there. There was no harassing of people just going about their day in the Alliance part. There was no dangling of Sunreavers over sharks in the Alliance part. If Horde players telling you what happened on their side of the story tainted you opinion of your side, then that's your problem. Those things don't happen in the Alliance game-play.

    Quote Originally Posted by Deleth View Post
    As for Gilneas and Silverpine, neither of these are a lasting victory so I don't get what you're talking about. Yes the Worgen do hurt Sylvannas and the Forsaken for a time, but are eventually sent back like beaten dogs to Gilneas to hide there with the 7th legion. The same 7th legion who was wiped out in Theramore and thus must've been drawn away from Gilneas. This means that currently Gilneas is either scarcely defended and rife for the plucking or under Horde control.
    Which is completly ignoring the fact that giving half of the little Worgen story there is to the Horde was sickening and disgusting to no end.

    The one biased here is you, a great deal so.
    Except they got a whole fortress right next to UC.
    Last edited by Aquamonkey; 2013-08-27 at 08:40 PM.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    I'm determined to someday make Med'an awesome. (MickyNeilson)

    ´So.. sorry to bring this up but..you know that .."thing" (Med'an).. is that "thing" cannon still?
    ...as much have some have wished otherwise, yes. (Loreology)

  17. #477
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    This illustrates the bias. People highlight Alliance losses as depicted from the Horde quests (Dalaran, Azshara), but completely dismiss Alliance victories from the Horde quests (Gilneas, Silverpine). Neither of those is presented to people playing the Alliance side, but people jump all over Sunreavers being rescued and escaping. What was presented in the Alliance side of Dalaran was a victory.
    First off, really? Gilneas and Silverpine? Those are considered Alliance victories? Silverpine, where the Gilneas Liberation Front invades and is pushed out entirely within the storyline of the zone with no consequences to the zone? Gilneas, where the Worgen at least regain part of their HOMELAND that the Forsaken have already largely destroyed and are still occupying parts of? Woo, those were some great victories! Silverpine you can't even count, because the outcome is "Sylvanas controls it" at the end.

    And I'm not sure how you're calling Gilneas an Alliance victory when originally it was "Shits fucked up, but they finally got the Worgen under control" to "Half the zone is plaguebombed/destroyed and the Forsaken have pushed in." Even if the Forsaken were 100% pushed out it still wouldn't be a victory, because half the goddamn zone is filled with plague. Also not even mentioning that the Worgen storyline is continued during the HORDE'S Silverpine zone.

    And maybe Dalaran was a victory for the Alliance. But you know what would have been great? Seeing some Alliance storylines/scenes in the game showing it as such. In 5.1, Dalaran is made to be as grey as an event as possible morally. Jaina is painted as a monster. And aftewards, Aethas escapes and the majority of the Sunreaver military forces merge into Rommath's Magi. And then the Sunreaver Onslaught is shown on EXACTLY EQUAL ground as the Kirin Tor in 5.2. Woo, such a great victory. Good thing the Kirin Tor are wrecking the Sunreaver's shit. Good thing Dalaran is flying around raining fire upon our enemies.

    Varian even flat out tells you that it was a victory for the Alliance. There was nothing morally gray about Varian being mad at Jaina for screwing up peace talks. He says he can't fault her for her actions.
    Woo, that's so fucking great. That really eases my anger. Its the same bullshit logic that Kosak was using during the interview. Blizzard can yell until their blue in the face that the Alliance are winning, but if they don't even try to represent it in the game then its nothing but words. Its the same logic as "WELL YOU'RE GETTING THE CONQUEROR OF ORGRIMMAR TITLE!" Its something you either can't or refuse to see. The Alliance wants to see its fucking victories represented appropriately in the goddamn game.

    The morally gray part all comes from the Horde side of the quest so they'd have a justification to go in there. There was no harassing of people just going about their day in the Alliance part. There was no dangling of Sunreavers over sharks in the Alliance part. If Horde players telling you what happened on their side of the story tainted you opinion of your side, then that's your problem. Those things don't happen in the Alliance game-play.
    Dude...we're playing the same fucking game. We can make Horde alts. We can see the other story. Youtube is a thing that exists. The Alliance storyline doesn't happen in a vacuum. This feeds into that same distinction I was talking about before. We're not the Alliance members in the game, we're PLAYING THE GAME. Saying somehow that we can't count the Horde's story because we don't see it as the Alliance is one of the most ridiculous things I've heard you say.

    Except they got a whole fortress right next to UC.
    Good thing Fenris Isle plays any significant part in any storyline whatsoever except to introduce the Southshore survivors as Worgen. You know, the majority of which you then kill and mow down their nameless Worgen soldiers the next quest.
    Last edited by KrazyK923; 2013-08-27 at 08:59 PM.
    Men, you've trained for this. You're among the elite. You are Skyfire men! This is the ship that took down Deathwing. You think some raggedy little Horde outpost stands a chance against the pride of the Alliance fleet? NO! Those green dirtbags down there plagued your homes in Southshore, laid siege to your children in Redridge, and massacred every man, woman and child in Theramore. It. Is. PAYBACK TIME!
    Sky Admiral Rogers for High Queen. Remember Theramore!

  18. #478
    It would be nice if the Horde suffered even one setback the majority of its players cared about. Something like, I dunno, Southshore, Gilneas, Theramore, etc. You know, places people had played in for years and had good memories attached to.

    Hmm.

  19. #479
    Quote Originally Posted by KrazyK923 View Post
    Dude...we're playing the same fucking game. We can make Horde alts. We can see the other story. Youtube is a thing that exists. The Alliance storyline doesn't happen in a vacuum. This feeds into that same distinction I was talking about before. We're not the Alliance members in the game, we're PLAYING THE GAME. Saying somehow that we can't count the Horde's story because we don't see it as the Alliance is one of the most ridiculous things I've heard you say.

    Its something you either can't or refuse to see. The Alliance wants to see its fucking victories represented appropriately in the goddamn game.
    And that's the thing, you aren't playing it like a game. You are taking it personally like the Devs punched you in the gut and shat on your face.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    I'm determined to someday make Med'an awesome. (MickyNeilson)

    ´So.. sorry to bring this up but..you know that .."thing" (Med'an).. is that "thing" cannon still?
    ...as much have some have wished otherwise, yes. (Loreology)

  20. #480
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    And that's the thing, you aren't playing it like a game. You are taking it personally like the Devs punched you in the gut and shat on your face.
    I am? Maybe in your opinion, but you've been wrong a shitton during this thread, so that wouldn't surprise me. I can't believe you're legitimately making this argument. I enjoy both sides of the lore, but I play the Alliance. I can see both sides of the story. Its an interactive story to be sure, but it is still a story. Saying somehow that I dislike how fucking crappy one side of the story that I particularly like means I'm taking the story personally as if the devs punched me in the gut makes no sense. I want both sides of the story to be good.

    It feeds into something myself and my cohosts on But Wait! There's Lore! have been talking about lately. Even the Horde players. When the Alliance are shown to be totally incompetent or nonexistent, aside from pissing off Alliance players, it makes the Horde story less impacting because its enemy is made so foolish. I like both sides of the story, I want both sides to be good. Me playing the Alliance doesn't change this in any real capacity.
    Last edited by KrazyK923; 2013-08-27 at 09:04 PM.
    Men, you've trained for this. You're among the elite. You are Skyfire men! This is the ship that took down Deathwing. You think some raggedy little Horde outpost stands a chance against the pride of the Alliance fleet? NO! Those green dirtbags down there plagued your homes in Southshore, laid siege to your children in Redridge, and massacred every man, woman and child in Theramore. It. Is. PAYBACK TIME!
    Sky Admiral Rogers for High Queen. Remember Theramore!

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