Lore Interview with Dave Kosak

[Verdugo]

Really, i wonder why ? I joined horde just and only to kill orcs.... Oh wait i didnt.....

I think it is a bonus.

[Arrashi]

I think it is a bonus.

Why would i get rid of my own meatshields ? Someone has to cover retreat after all. I say that whole MoP is wasting precious resources.

[mvaliz]

The situation in which Metzen had to give half of the player base some reassurance with that "promise", shouldn't have occured in the first place.
They should had taken their time in Cataclysm to flesh out the Alliance leveling experience, no matter what. Believe me, if the hadn't giving promises, the outrage about Theramore would have been a lot more.
The "Alliance FIST-PUMP moment" and all the "wait for it, Alliance's getting their time", were just PR-moves to control the damage that they themselves created with Cataclysm.

The bold face part is EXACTLY what was needed.

THat's where everything went wrong...

You see, this expansion WOULD be balanced, to a degree - but the fundamental DESIGN of Cataclysm and story/lore base was so disgustingly lopsided that so many Alliance (including myself) felt totally alienated.

That's why it still seems unbalanced to Alliance players - because there's been nothing to recompense the aweful design/story that was Cataclysm. No, taking Orgrimmar does not do that - because we're NOT taking Orgrimmar... we're helping the Horde RECLAIM Orgrimmar FOR THE HORDE. Hell man, we're apparently... ALLOWING... them to choose their new warchief. I mean... really?

[arcaneshot]

The bold face part is EXACTLY what was needed.

THat's where everything went wrong...

You see, this expansion WOULD be balanced, to a degree - but the fundamental DESIGN of Cataclysm and story/lore base was so disgustingly lopsided that so many Alliance (including myself) felt totally alienated.

You know what... it happened. It's time to let it go. Demanding that other people suffer because you think you've been slighted is crossing the line.

[Deleted]

So, by that reasoning, you most likely won't mind that next expansion, absolutely no Horde racial leaders will be involved into the story, while the Alliance gets 2-3 who show up, one of which will be the neutral hero of the expansion.
Also there will be 2 new races. The Horde get to see half of their new race story, it will end up at some big hut in Thunderbluff. The Alliance will see the conclusion of it, no story for the rest of the expansion for them after that.
Also the Alliance will get some nice cinematic intro to a new zone, while the Horde get some blacked out screen.
This all because the Alliance is lacking attention since Wrath. Deal? Let's see of the Horde can hold their wine when that hapens.

Come on, in many ways that already happend. It's called Wrath of the Lich King.

Arthas and Tirion? human or former human (note how the role of Ner'zhul is completely removed, but it could've made a great story on Horde side. In fact the whole "I was a Shaman once" quote is part of the Alliance questline in Howling Fjords.).
Capital city? Dalaran is former Alliance.
The whole connection with the Vrykul, Mechagnomes, Iron Dwarves and Earthen? That's completely Alliance only.
And please let's not forget that the Alliance got a big ass harbour while the Horde got 1 extra zeppelin on a tower that already existed.
On top of that, you got your King back. And Bolvar survived while Saurfang Jr didn't.

I'm not saying the Horde has no lore in Wrath, but the Alliance got a lot more cool stuff.

I will indeed admit Cataclysm favoured Horde, but Wrath definitely favoured Alliance.

[mvaliz]

I don't see why the arguments continue at this point. Kosak said very plainly and very simple terms that the Dev will only give the Alliance stuff that won't alienate and anger the Horde Playerbase. You guys are second-class customers in your monthly paid game. They don't care if they alienate and anger the Alliance, but they won't do a thing that might piss off the Horde players.

Come to grips, make your faction changes, accept and move on.

I would be really nice if the Devs had listened to that philosophy while developing Cataclysm... because they sure alienated (and subsequently angered) the Alliance population via their Horde stuff.

[Deleted]

Hell man, we're apparently... ALLOWING... them to choose their new warchief. I mean... really?

Perhaps the Blue people felt that Alliance got accustomed to such 'logic' within their war strategy planning? Stonard was pretty much similar in that regard.

[mvaliz]

You know what... it happened. It's time to let it go. Demanding that other people suffer because you think you've been slighted is crossing the line.

...um...exactly who is suffering?

It's a damn game. Nobody is suffering... I'm talking about restoring game lore and design balance. I'm not talking about stripping away players abilities whatsoever.

It's been tipped in Cata, and has never been addressed... it's probably easy for you to say "just let it go" because you had all the good story and development. All the Alliance has had was movie parodies and zones being destroyed/stolen.

[Aquamonkey]

I don't see why the arguments continue at this point. Kosak said very plainly and very simple terms that the Dev will only give the Alliance stuff that won't alienate and anger the Horde Playerbase. You guys are second-class customers in your monthly paid game. They don't care if they alienate and anger the Alliance, but they won't do a thing that might piss off the Horde players.

Come to grips, make your faction changes, accept and move on.

Because after all they did to give the Alliance victory after victory, they aren't going to bend over backwards and alienate half the playerbase for the small group of ungrateful whiners who will never be satisfied unless SoO is an Alliance-exclusive raid that destroys the Horde faction in-game for good.

[Sky High]

Arthas and Tirion? human or former human (note how the role of Ner'zhul is completely removed, but it could've made a great story on Horde side. In fact the whole "I was a Shaman once" quote is part of the Alliance questline in Howling Fjords.).
Capital city? Dalaran is former Alliance.
The whole connection with the Vrykul, Mechagnomes, Iron Dwarves and Earthen? That's completely Alliance only.
And please let's not forget that the Alliance got a big ass harbour while the Horde got 1 extra zeppelin on a tower that already existed.
On top of that, you got your King back. And Bolvar survived while Saurfang Jr didn't.

AND got to find out what happened to Muradin, and have Brann in multiple quest chains throughout the expac. yea allies got a lot of the good quest chains in Warth.

[mvaliz]

Perhaps the Blue people felt that Alliance got accustomed to such 'logic' within their war strategy planning? Stonard was pretty much similar in that regard.

Yeah... sorry, they're not that smart/forward thinking. If they were, they wouldn't have Effed up Cataclysm so much. :P

[Deleted]

I guess you didn't really read the thread... She pretty much said that she wanted the horde players punished, not just some horde NPCs.

Yeah, wouldn't forced labour only result in more Horde characters feeling Garrosh was right all along? They'll hate the Alliance even more and feel forced to remove them from the map. People in misery and poverty will flock to a strong leader that promises them a good life, even if it means going to war.

To bring up WWII again, there's a reason the Allies didn't put more sanctions on Germany after WWII. They realized from the sanctions they put on them after WWI that it doesn't work.

- - - Updated - - -

AND got to find out what happened to Muradin, and have Brann in multiple quest chains throughout the expac. yea allies got a lot of the good quest chains in Warth.

Exactly my point. But people are quick to forget, they can't remember past Cataclysm it seems.

[Deleted]

I will indeed admit Cataclysm favoured Horde, but Wrath definitely favoured Alliance.

I am pretty sure that Blizzard does not follow this 'favoritism cycle' methodology when designing new content for each faction. Why I am sure? Because only a massively moronical revanchist with only subtle anchoring in the reality would believe that it is a good idea to divide content according to "you received no candy last time, so now you will get it all while your brother gets to watch how you stuff your face with it" mentality.

There is no physical past or future, only PRESENT that continously evolves. Blizzard tries their best to satisfy all quota - except they no longer have any tangible idea as to how one is supposed to make Alliance interesting or immersive.

[Sky High]

I am pretty sure that Blizzard does not follow this 'favoritism cycle' methodology when designing new content for each faction. Why I am sure? Because only a massively moronical revanchist with only subtle anchoring in the reality would believe that it is a good idea to divide content according to "you received no candy last time, so now you will get it all while your brother gets to watch how you stuff your face with it" mentality.

There is no physical past or future, only PRESENT that continously evolves. Blizzard tries their best to satisfy all quota - except they no longer have any tangible idea as to how one is supposed to make Alliance interesting or immersive.

indeed, the shining knight routine gets old quick. if they go and retake Dal and a few shop keepers die, "oh, blood on our hands". I'm glad I'm the kind of player that likes moral ambiguity. fits the horde perfectly.

[Grubjuice]

To bring up WWII again, there's a reason the Allies didn't put more sanctions on Germany after WWII. They realized from the sanctions they put on them after WWI that it doesn't work.

well they also occupied both germany and japan for like 10 years after the war ended (eastern germany was basically occupied until the 80s
anyway, it's not worth making too many comparisons

[Deleted]

There is no physical past or future, only PRESENT that continously evolves. Blizzard tries their best to satisfy all quota - except they no longer have any tangible idea as to how one is supposed to make Alliance interesting or immersive.

The problem isn't that they don't have, it's that everyone and their mom seems to have the right to demand things to be done yesterday.

[Deleted]

The problem isn't that they don't have, it's that everyone and their mom seems to have the right to demand things to be done yesterday.

So......

Are you implying that Blizzard's WoW developement team has MASSIVE amounts of inspirational material, frameworks, outlines, reference material stock that COULD make Alliance interesting and immersive... ...and only time and a select handful of unhappy beings is what keeps them from ushering Alliance in its renaissance?

Because this is what can be extracted from your comment in the context of the one you have quoted.

[KrazyK923]

You know what... it happened. It's time to let it go. Demanding that other people suffer because you think you've been slighted is crossing the line.

Who is "demanding that other people suffer" in what you've quoted?

Fucking hell, Kosak basically tells us Alliance players in a roundabout way to "deal with it" because they apparently have no fucking idea how to understand our "Can we see some Alliance victories in the game?" complaint.

- - - Updated - - -

Because after all they did to give the Alliance victory after victory, they aren't going to bend over backwards and alienate half the playerbase for the small group of ungrateful whiners who will never be satisfied unless SoO is an Alliance-exclusive raid that destroys the Horde faction in-game for good.

Wooo further strawmanning. What victories do the Alliance get, I'm wondering? Destroying the Divine Bell? Man, we're so awesome! Good thing that had any impact on anything going forward. Good thing that the loss of the Bell totally disenfranchises Garrosh and we begin pushing back and have victories for us.

Good thing that Dalaran is now floating over Orgrimmar and the Alliance isn't just going along for the ride in the Horde's quest to reclaim their Capital, ultimately culminating in them replacing their leader.

But, no, keep on arguing against the nonexistent position that the Alliance is demanding we completely destroy Orgrimmar and piss all over the ashes or we won't stop complaining.

[Deleted]

So......

Are you implying that Blizzard's WoW developement team has MASSIVE amounts of inspirational material, frameworks, outlines, reference material stock that COULD make Alliance interesting and immersive... ...and only time and a select handful of unhappy beings is what keeps them from ushering Alliance in its renaissance?

Because this is what can be extracted from your comment in the context of the one you have quoted.

Do we have any info about future content? Heck, we don't even know the ending cinematic of the current xpac, much less NDA info of future patches and expansions. Was the Alliance badly dealt until now? Yes, I already said that the Alliance being a human club is the main problem, but more than that, we simply don't know.

[Aquamonkey]

Wooo further strawmanning. What victories do the Alliance get, I'm wondering? Destroying the Divine Bell? Man, we're so awesome! Good thing that had any impact on anything going forward. Good thing that the loss of the Bell totally disenfranchises Garrosh and we begin pushing back and have victories for us.

Good thing that Dalaran is now floating over Orgrimmar and the Alliance isn't just going along for the ride in the Horde's quest to reclaim their Capital, ultimately culminating in them replacing their leader.

But, no, keep on arguing against the nonexistent position that the Alliance is demanding we completely destroy Orgrimmar and piss all over the ashes or we won't stop complaining.

I'm not strawmanning, there are literally people who have posted they want the Horde destroyed and to have nothing to do with "helping the Horde fight their civil war" and "being along for the ride".