[MW] 5.4 BiS Discussion

[Nakanai]

Why Bracers of Averted Fatality over Bracers of Purified Spirit? All of the secondary stat gain you're getting from the more even distribution is in spirit, so it's not exactly useful. You're actually losing crit/haste points by going for the haste bracers over the crit ones.

[Zhaine]

Why Bracers of Averted Fatality over Bracers of Purified Spirit? All of the secondary stat gain you're getting from the more even distribution is in spirit, so it's not exactly useful. You're actually losing crit/haste points by going for the haste bracers over the crit ones.

Fixed, that was an oversight, I'd been using wowdb to look at the gear to compile a BiS list and those hadn't appeared in the filter, thats why I've missed a few pieces of gear but thanks for the heads up.

I guess I assumed wowdb would be right, without checking it against wowhead, just shows how dependent we have become on websites for this information

[Xiameri]

A huge thanks in advance to you taking the time on this Zhaine and for others with their feedback and suggestions - a big help when trying to decide what to go for

[Zhaine]

A huge thanks in advance to you taking the time on this Zhaine and for others with their feedback and suggestions - a big help when trying to decide what to go for

Nice to know you appreciate it

[Geodew]

Haven't read the whole thread yet, but did you guys see this short discussion?

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...1#post22142030

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You could also add in the staff alternative from Blackfuse (easier to get, slightly better for fw and whatnot).

Mainhand/Offhand v Staff stat comparison

MH/OH

3369.9 DPS
2733 int
1913 crit
1364 haste
14225 spellpower

These are the stats assuming Potent Vermilion Onyx is in the main hand and offhand and the Enchant Off-Hand - Major Intellect enchant

STAFF

4535.6 DPS
2543 int
1918 crit
1358 haste
14,223 spellpower

This is the stats with Potent Vermilion Onyx in the staff

MH/OH stats compared to the staff

-1165.7 DPS
+110 Int
-5 Crit
+6 Haste
+2 Spellpower

For min/maxers MH/OH is better for mistweaving and the staff is better for fistweaving

Zhaine, I think you are forgetting about Way of the Monk giving +70% damage for 1H and +40% attack speed for 2H. This puts 1H DPS at 5728.83 and 2H DPS at 6349.84. Thus the difference is 620 DPS, not 1166 DPS, which is an (6349.84/5728.83) - 1 = 11% difference compared to (4535.6/3369.9) - 1 = 35%. 2H is better for Fistweaving, but not by 35%. :P

With the amount of Jab-TP we do while Lucidity is up, anyone consider that 2H might give more total healing? For anyone interested in this discussion I'm posting a new thread so as to not derail the BiS thread for now.

[Zhaine]

Haven't read the whole thread yet, but did you guys see this short discussion?

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...1#post22142030

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Zhaine, I think you are forgetting about Way of the Monk giving +70% damage for 1H and +40% attack speed for 2H. This puts 1H DPS at 5728.83 and 2H DPS at 6349.84. Thus the difference is 620 DPS, not 1166 DPS, which is an (6349.84/5728.83) - 1 = 11% difference compared to (4535.6/3369.9) - 1 = 35%. 2H is better for Fistweaving, but not by 35%. :P

With the amount of Jab-TP we do while Lucidity is up, anyone consider that 2H might give more total healing? For anyone interested in this discussion I'm posting a new thread so as to not derail the BiS thread for now.

Since I'm not a theorycrafter I left this out, was just looking at the stats, but cheers for doing the maths for me haha

[Deleted]

Just so you know, WoTM's bonus is strictly auto attack though. Only comes in handy if you use Serpent's Zeal a lot.

[Geodew]

Just so you know, WoTM's bonus is strictly auto attack though. Only comes in handy if you use Serpent's Zeal a lot.

Oh really? I figured it was to balance 1H vs 2H fistweaving for MW. That seems like poor design

[Matia]

Hi. I'm kinda new to all this and the idea of bis - I really appreciate the effort you've gone to to make people like me (retarded with maths that is!) have a clearer view. The only problem is the items you listed are probably well outside of my reach. Is it viable to just get the equivalent normal versions or just do the stats not match up? :'( if not how do I actually go about working it out? I have spent a quite a few nights but it's just resulting in a headache..

[Nakanai]

Hi. I'm kinda new to all this and the idea of bis - I really appreciate the effort you've gone to to make people like me (retarded with maths that is!) have a clearer view. The only problem is the items you listed are probably well outside of my reach. Is it viable to just get the equivalent normal versions or just do the stats not match up? :'( if not how do I actually go about working it out? I have spent a quite a few nights but it's just resulting in a headache..

Any normal-mode only BiS list is going to differ significantly from the true BiS lists that have been posted in this thread and the MWer sticky, because of Ordos's loot table. Everything that Ordos drops is Warforged by default, and several of the pieces on his loot table are better itemized than the SoO equivalent (neck, shoulders, belt, pants).

Regarding how to formulate a true BiS list, it basically comes down to what you want out of the list, and how you want to approach making it. One method is just to pick the best-itemized item for each slot, subject to certain constraints (namely set bonuses). A second is to sit down with Wowhead (or another site), build a set, upgrade, gem, enchant, and reforge everything within the website's interface, and then see if you need to replace any items to better reach a haste breakpoint. (Obviously, this second method is a lot more time-consuming, but it has the potential to generate a theoretically better set.)

Fortunately (from a player perspective; quite unfortunately from a design perspective), MWers are in a position where 2 out of the 4 secondary stats have virtually no value for us, which means picking items for each slot becomes significantly easier. For a heroic-mode BiS, almost every slot has a clear best piece; only rings, trinkets, and boots present choices, and for trinkets, it's mainly a theorycrafting question (which one will lead to better performance) than an itemization one (which one has the most compatible stats for hitting a haste breakpoint).

There are a couple of non-fully-resolved questions at this point regarding trinkets and 2pc T15 vs 4pc T16 (one person saying "A is better than B," but not having anything more than anecdotal evidence doesn't resolve an issue, in my mind). Furthermore, I would argue that any BiS list that assumes Garrosh drops (esp. Warforged ones) is of negligible value, since gear is a tool to defeat content so there's no practical point to accumulate gear when there's no further content to complete. That's more of a philosophical issue, though.

As a TL;DR, if you're building a normal-mode BiS list, you could do worse than taking this one, substituting the shoulders, belt and neck from Ordos for the SoO equivalents, and just taking the normal-mode versions of everything else. And possibly using T15 chest & pants over the T16 items in those slots, depending on how that debate works out.

[Spotnick]

Are we getting to the 12158 haste breakpoint with that? is it even worth it? Although with the amp trinkets, it probably screws up the maths for that lol.

[iDrunkenheal]

Are we getting to the 12158 haste breakpoint with that? is it even worth it? Although with the amp trinkets, it probably screws up the maths for that lol.

Probably hit the 12158 with the amp trinket.

[st33l]

With the nerfs to the healing cloak, is it still BiS over the Jadefire cloak?
1 proc every two minutes that causes overhealing to spread for 10 seconds, versus, a constant extra 1.65% crit throughout the fight?

[Deleted]

if it procs at the right time, it can do godly amount of healing, so for me it's worth it

[Nakanai]

With the nerfs to the healing cloak, is it still BiS over the Jadefire cloak?
1 proc every two minutes that causes overhealing to spread for 10 seconds, versus, a constant extra 1.65% crit throughout the fight?

It's 0.918% crit after reforging, and the proc is like 8-10% extra healing, depending on procs. RPPM is annoying, but not THAT unreliable.

[Vraizan]

With purified bindings most likely being hotfixed to not work for healers, which of the 2 aoe trinkets would be the one we want to aim for to pair with the amp trinket? I was thinking nazgrims just because the int proc can proc more frequently but i never played around with the 2 trinkets so I'm not sure if one of the procs is better than the other.

[Postaldude]

With purified bindings most likely being hotfixed to not work for healers, which of the 2 aoe trinkets would be the one we want to aim for to pair with the amp trinket? I was thinking nazgrims just because the int proc can proc more frequently but i never played around with the 2 trinkets so I'm not sure if one of the procs is better than the other.

Depends a lot on fight and 10/25 but Thok should be favored on 25m

[Vraizan]

Thanks for the quick response, 10 man guild here though. Probably shoulda mentioned that XD

[Floopa]

Use the Siegecrafter trinket. It's a huge amount of static SP and the spirit proc, while favouring MWs less, just helps out a little bit. Mostly you're taking the trinket for the static intellect though. That's why I'm using it (I swap between Thok trinket + HLG depending on encounter).

[Vraizan]

Ah yes, I had kinda forgotten about that one. Though tbh I'll probably just use whatever trinket I can get my hands on first XD