Hunter and Grimore of sacrifice

[bewsh]

Hunter class. -->HUNTER<--

When a hunter goes out to hunt dinner he brings his trusty dog with him to sniff out game, fetch it when we kill it, and be a loyal companion. We are hunters! Not rangers, Not elves with bows, Not warlocks!

Even with this in mind, I dont think it's the worst idea in the world, but blizzard has already said multiple times that this will NEVER happen. It's a dream, and while dreams are good, they dont help us fix what's really wrong with our class.

No narrow minded people like you are what don't help us fix what is really wrong with the class. They've said a lot of shit will never happen and somehow or another it creeps its way into the game.

Having a petless spec fixes a handful of problems at the source - and I don't give a fuck about the hunter isn't a hunter without a pet argument. The class is tied to the ranger archetype whether or not the lore nerds want to accept it or not.

If you really want get down into the RP of it your pet does not assist with any of your hunter skills - like actually hunting and tracking enemies (hunter skills, not pet skills) - it just exists do deal autoattack damage and for you to micromanage additional special abilities "separate" from the hunter toolkit.

There is absolutely no reason why we can not have a "petless" spec. There is no reason why the damage can't be shifted from the pet to the hunter. Hell you can keep your pet, it just will be there -- acting as your companion, or whatever, just doing zero-minimal damage while you pew pew your heart out.

[Ninjeff]

No narrow minded people like you are what don't help us fix what is really wrong with the class. They've said a lot of shit will never happen and somehow or another it creeps its way into the game.

Having a petless spec fixes a handful of problems at the source - and I don't give a fuck about the hunter isn't a hunter without a pet argument. The class is tied to the ranger archetype whether or not the lore nerds want to accept it or not.

If you really want get down into the RP of it your pet does not assist with any of your hunter skills - like actually hunting and tracking enemies (hunter skills, not pet skills) - it just exists do deal autoattack damage and for you to micromanage additional special abilities "separate" from the hunter toolkit.

There is absolutely no reason why we can not have a "petless" spec. There is no reason why the damage can't be shifted from the pet to the hunter. Hell you can keep your pet, it just will be there -- acting as your companion, or whatever, just doing zero-minimal damage while you pew pew your heart out.

Hey, I said I didn't think it was the worst idea in the world. =) I am definitely not against shifting damage from the pet to the hunter. Fight for whatever you want. People can still give their opinions.

[Tychu]

I don't mind the idea of having the option for a hunter version of grimoire of sacrifice as a way of providing ourselves an option on fights such as megaera where pathing can be an issue. I wouldn't want it to become a permanent option but mostly just something we can do that doesn't provide a greater dps increase on normal fights but would be more useful than worrying about a pet. I know there have been times on Ji-Kun where I've accidentally jumped with a feather after getting a nutrient and my pet disappears and i forget for a couple of seconds and have to re-summon it.

[PickleballAce]

I think the pet classes should at least have some way to bypass punishment in fights where pets are really wonky. GrimSac serves that purpose for us and I'd like to see Hunters get the same reprieve.

I like pets, I just don't like raiding with them. They're a high-risk, low-reward mechanic.

[Perrito]

The only thing that needs fixing is pathing issues and then it would be fine. I mean I don't get why the pet has to run "downstairs" on Maegera when it can stand with the rest of the group on the platform.

this will never go away, for this reason i will rather have the option to go petless, also those bosses that dont benefit the pet from gaining buffs like 1st toes boss and sha that wont go into the pet.

is a good thing to get rid of the liability of the class. i hope 1 day they will do this even if is for MM or SV only kinda deal.

[Glurp]

I'm sure it can happen at some stage but do you really want it? Blizzard stated they nerfed GoSac for Warlocks because they didn't want the petless spec to be the top DPS on a pet class and exactly the same thing would happen with Hunters.

[VoodooChyle]

I'm sure it can happen at some stage but do you really want it? Blizzard stated they nerfed GoSac for Warlocks because they didn't want the petless spec to be the top DPS on a pet class and exactly the same thing would happen with Hunters.

This. Blizzard has always said that active abilities should be stronger than passives....same goes with pets. Obviously on occasion, the mechanics will help pet-less specs perform better, but for the most part this has always been Blizzard's stance. This is why it is so difficult to balance and takes like 7 patches to get it right. Also, with Locks, when you sac, you lose out on one of your demon's abilities. This would destroy Hunters in pvp, since they are much more reliant on pet specials to line up CC chains (not to mention pet specific buffs). I'm not saying it's not an interesting idea, but it's one I think doesn't blend well with the class and is probably better served never coming to light.

[Bonkbonk100]

Go go ranged pets? Frost mages dosen't seem to have as many pet issues as we do. If the PvP crowd get in the way, just make it work for instanced PvE only?

[Prokne]

This. Blizzard has always said that active abilities should be stronger than passives....same goes with pets. Obviously on occasion, the mechanics will help pet-less specs perform better, but for the most part this has always been Blizzard's stance. This is why it is so difficult to balance and takes like 7 patches to get it right. Also, with Locks, when you sac, you lose out on one of your demon's abilities. This would destroy Hunters in pvp, since they are much more reliant on pet specials to line up CC chains (not to mention pet specific buffs). I'm not saying it's not an interesting idea, but it's one I think doesn't blend well with the class and is probably better served never coming to light.

Well even if it takes a whole expansion to balance correctly at least we have the ability. Hunter pets normally do about 8-10% of damage for MM and Surv so all they have to do boost your dps by that amount using an AP/Agi/Crit buff. Personally I would take it even if it was a 5% dps loss all the time but it should be about equal or very encounter dependent. IDC about PvP but I would assume people will take whatever gives them the most CC, plus pets can still attack people who LOS you.

As far as passive vs active - I almost never control my pet. Its on autoattack and does its specials automatically so its basically a passive. If you dont have a pet you have to make up for the pets damage by actively shooting things with your hunter.

For the people who dont like the talent because it "kills" your pet, it wouldnt be called that or work that way. It would be like letting your pet go play by itself in the meadow while you go hunting alone.

[anjan011]

Hunters can't be balanced without pets. For example, our Topmost offensive CD, Stampede, requires our pets (or, copy of current active pet, glyphed). A pet less spec can't have stampede, then u lose your offensive CD. Also, pets bring various buff, a petless hunter can't bring any buff other than trueshot aura. Personally, sometimes i would like to play petless, most time i feel like this is when i m on BM spec, pet is busy on a target, i switched to another, and unable to cast KC< because pet has to run to range first. very irritating. if ur pet is out of range or CCed, BM is a great deal of pain. So, yes a pet less spec could be good, that is why i went to SURV. i don't have to worry about pet, as pet does small amount damage comparing to me, and wont lose much dps if pet is cced or away.

[Anzaman]

I think Marksman should be the petless spec if anything.

Agreed.

I'd love to see at least one spec that isn't "forced" to use pet. I'd like to play like a ranger, without worrying after my pet(s).

[Prokne]

Hunters can't be balanced without pets. For example, our Topmost offensive CD, Stampede, requires our pets (or, copy of current active pet, glyphed). A pet less spec can't have stampede, then u lose your offensive CD. Also, pets bring various buff, a petless hunter can't bring any buff other than trueshot aura. Personally, sometimes i would like to play petless, most time i feel like this is when i m on BM spec, pet is busy on a target, i switched to another, and unable to cast KC< because pet has to run to range first. very irritating. if ur pet is out of range or CCed, BM is a great deal of pain. So, yes a pet less spec could be good, that is why i went to SURV. i don't have to worry about pet, as pet does small amount damage comparing to me, and wont lose much dps if pet is cced or away.

Both of those are easily dealt with. Stampede: you still have a stable of pets since all you did was put yours away while you went hunting solo, you need help for a few seconds and release them all and they act just like stampede does now, or if the spec never has pets you just summon 5 random pet npcs like a 5x dire beast. Buffs: the ability you use to get rid of the pet gives you a buff that provides the pets buff to the rest of the raid, or my favorite solution which is give the pet free spec its own raid buff.

Or you could make stampede a BM/Surv lvl 87 ability and MM would have another lvl 87 ability that didnt use pets. Not every spec has to have the same high level abilities.

[Bangaa]

I guess I'm just different but I think Survival should be the petless spec instead of Marksmanship. I mean hunters are based/balanced around being able to do some damage and some cc while they themselves are cc'd. This goes in favor of survival because they already have dot damage and they are the "trap-focused" spec. Ideas coming just of the top of my head could be that they can just get a spell that sacrifices their pet by "studying it's abilities" and gets a cc trap in return, and their Stampede could be just setting off a bunch of automatic release snake traps that do equivalent damage. Examples of the Study Pet ability could be be Web trap from spiders, bear trap from crabs/dogs, stinger traps from wasps, and the list goes on. Overall I support a petless spec but not a petless talent skill, I just don't think a talent could be balanced properly.

However, I don't think it will ever happen because the devs aren't entirely happy with GoSac... Here's to hoping!

[webwierdo]

The main issue here is that the vast majority of hunters play as if their pets were dots that they move around from target to target. However, Hunters aren't balanced this way, their DPS is compensated for the occasional hiccups involved with using a pet. (mostly, pathing and other issues do arise, but blizzard is getting better at handling them). A petless spec would have to do significantly less damage than a spec with pets to compensate for the headaches involved in using one. If all specs were even, every progression orientated player would choose the petless one because it simplifies the mechanics (much like what happened for warlocks). This would then doom two specs to mediocrity. If they did handicap the petless spec, that would then doom that spec (you could argue they have already doomed MM).

Making it a talent would have the same issues where 1 or 2 choices are complete wastes(you could, again, argue that this is already the case with some tiers now), in addition, it would have to handle how BM would work without a pet. A glyph could work (assuming they figure out the BM thing), since it wouldn't have as big an impact as a wasted spec/talent choice. If they did have a petless glyph, it would fulfill a design philosophy they once mentioned of giving players the choice to simplify the game ,possibly improving their personal DPS, at the cost of lower max potential DPS.

[Goretex]

I think it's a good idea for those peopel that want to feel like a ranger not a hunter. But personally I like having my pets it feels like you are a beast tamer of the wild which a hunter is. As long as they don't mess up BM I don;t mind oit for those who want it.